 Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard, Good to know you were never a baby. You can slap my kids all you like, but would suggest that you are able to run faster than them 
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brian
brian
Guest
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Lizzard, I vaguely remember what it was like in the carefree pre-dependents world. Annoying, irritating, etc. ? Certainly ... but enraging ?
Anyway, in the case I mentioned above there was absolutely nothing we could do. When the seatbelt light comes on, you have to have the baby on your lap, facing away from you with a belt attached to your belt. However brilliant your parenting skills, if your baby is in pain and strapped in a fixed, non-comforting position, they are going to let everybody know about it.
I did apologise to everybody nearby, some of them even offered sympathy. Won't find many such weak minded bleeding hearts around here though, n'est-ce pas ? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, I was undoubtedly a baby. However, my mother never proposed to coop me up on an aeroplane for 14 hours with a bunch of people who had no interest in putting up with a squealing infant.
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Lizzard, Mine neither, they left me at home with relatives, selfish barstewards. Long haul is comparatively far cheaper than it was "back then" 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, sound like sensible considerate parents to me. Your Granny probably loved it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, The only consideration they had was me raising the cost of the holiday by 1/3
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Taking a 14month old on long haul flight |
... is almost certainly an act of monumental selfishness. It's not fair on the baby and it's not fair on other passengers. And unless your personal circumstances are very unusual (emigration? Family reunion?), it's not necessary. Ski closer to home this year and learn some patience. You can always go long haul when the kids are older.
Do I sound intolerant?  |
yes you sound like a to$$er as well
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actually quite a lot of posters sound like tossers in this thread
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I always thought "tolerant" means opinions, not acts that directly affects the well being of others.
I never thought tolerance also includes keeping silence when being imposed upon.
But obviously I'm wrong. It appears I'm the "tosser" in the eye of those who wish to impose their crying baby on me!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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taking children on flights is not very hard- making the decision to go is the hardest bit,
asking for advice about it in an internet forum is perhaps not sensible as you get replies akin to 'Any answers'- rabid uncensored ravings and they might not help much!!
we flew to San Francisco for my wife's work when our youngest was about 18 months- he fed and slept the whole way.
Long transfers to and from Val D'Isere a quite tricky but really if people without kids choose to go with tour operators known for childcare - what do they expect??
When our first child was 2 I was shocked when an unmarried and childless middle-aged man (a soldier who I'm sure had serious problems with repression) arrived in the Mark Warner hotel we were in to exclaim in front of me and my 2yr old that he had forgotten how terrible it was with all the kids! A while later in the holiday I asked if Saga did ski trips these days??
Ignore the crap here- go - pack plenty of nappies and clothes- it helps if you are breast feeding- most people are nice- and helpful- but a tiny minority are whingers and nobody cares about them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Taking a 14month old on long haul flight |
... is almost certainly an act of monumental selfishness. It's not fair on the baby and it's not fair on other passengers. And unless your personal circumstances are very unusual (emigration? Family reunion?), it's not necessary. Ski closer to home this year and learn some patience. You can always go long haul when the kids are older. |
I'm with you on this one Jonny.
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You know it makes sense.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| spyderjon, absolute and total toss. |
I agree
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| It appears I'm the "tosser" in the eye |
well in fairness nobody is talking about tossing in the eye of anybody- that would be rude!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| edsilva wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| It appears I'm the "tosser" in the eye |
well in fairness nobody is talking about tossing in the eye of anybody- that would be rude! |
But imposing crying baby on others are not (rude), obviously.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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yep
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When a crying baby wants something. 99% of mums (or dads!) will provide that if at all possible. But there are obviously times (take off, landing) when that is made difficult.
We've flown long and short haul with both sons, and never had an issue - at least not when they could be described as "babies". For every crying baby that you have noticed, how many have you not noticed??
I fly a lot for work: just about every week at the moment, long and short haul. And in the last six months, I've seen quite a few babies - you tend to notice them when you've one of your own - but none have been a noisance at all.
If you can't handle your fellow passengers: whatever their age, then answer is in your hands: DON'T FLY (or use trains, buses, ferries ...).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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RobW, absolutely.
Things which have made recent flights more difficult for me - idiots who move the seat in front of me back and forwards repeatedly, very fat people, people who pee all over the floor in the toilets, people who decide to stand up and open overhead lockers during turbulence, smelly adults, and seat back entertainment systems on the blink.
Kids you can almost always tune out (unless they are yours) with an MP3 player.
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| Quote: |
if you cannot afford first class, and are so scruffy you cannot get an upgrade,
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So rich people get to travel in peace, and the rest of us have to put up with rude parents. Charming.
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Parents and children have every right to travel where they wish.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, no one would should have to put up with rude parents or rude unaccompanied fat/smelly/noisy/inconsiderate adults either. The knee-jerk demonising of all parents who travel with small children on this thread is pathetic and prejudiced. You - with your rather trenchant combative posting style - should be able to recognise when someone is replying to you in the same fashion.
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Thankfully, by experience, I know that some of the views expressed here are really just a small minority...
Most people do realise the world does not revolve round their little limited bubble and small comforts..and that other people also have a right to live and enjoy life..
I can read what those people are "saying" here....but all I can really "hear" from them is "me me me me me and me..."
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kruisler, I am guessing from your previous post you mean that those of us who have travelled with well-behaved kids are the selfish ones, rather than those -perhaps like you? - who want children to be hidden away so that they do not intrude on their own selfish "bubble".
But your post could be read either way if it weren't for your previous post...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kruisler, sorry - my mistake - failed to spot the irony - good to see another recruit to the forces of enlightenment!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
I always thought "tolerant" means opinions, not acts that directly affects the well being of others.
I never thought tolerance also includes keeping silence when being imposed upon.
But obviously I'm wrong. It appears I'm the "tosser" in the eye of those who wish to impose their crying baby on me! |
There's been a couple of people on here expressing a desire to "slap" cyring children. Having an opinion is one thing, voicing your desire to "slap"other people's children on a public forum is quite another.
Children, as human being's (albeit small and noisy) have as much right to an opinion, and to enjoy a holiday as anyone else! Thousands of children fly every day un-noticed. Sometimes they get upset, sometimes adults behave badly...we all have to put up with things we don't like sometimes. It's not for long! Chill out, you'll find it annoys you far less if you don't get so stressed and angry about it!
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Poster: A snowHead
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More often than not parents do have a choice. Granted, for emmigration, family illness etc, long haul travel with young kids is unavoidable.
Travelling long haul with screaming sprogs in tow for holidays is just selfish bloody-mindedness. Who's getting any pleasure out of the experience?
Certainly the kids themselves do not. Why not restrict yourself for a few years to only travelling within Europe?
Seems to me that people are willing to make many, many sacrifices in their lives in order to procreate. Why can they not do everyone else the decency of making one more, which will save them a world of grief anyway, and stay off long-haul flights?
Have often thought that there's a gap in the market for this. So many people list it as a top complaint of travelling (say what you like but I am not alone in this opinion)... why don't airlines launch some child-free flights? Obviously would only be viable on major routes, but I would certainly be willing to pay a small premium to avoid spending 10 hrs in a creche. Then all you more thoughful, understanding parental types can go on the kids flight and leave us to it - I wonder how many of you would, given that choice???
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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oh8777, I would be happy to be on such a flight - but I suspect carriers have looked at this and think it is a non-starter.
Of course - if you live in the UK - these little sprogs are going to be paying for your pension and healthcare because of the way the UK system is funded. So now might be a good time to accord them a little respect, and not to make the same mistake as other posters and lump all parents with kids in together. Adults can be just as much of a nuisance but I don't see you or Lizzard having a go at them... As I said - typical British attitude - hide the kids, don't have them in restaurants, don't let them intrude or be part of society, and then wonder why they end up rude feckless binge-drinking teenage mums...
welcome to snowHeads by the way! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
why don't airlines launch some child-free flights?
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Because you're the deluded one when you say:
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So many people list it as a top complaint of travelling
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As per what stoatsbrother said: if the market was there, the airlines would be there in a flash... Like the ones that regularly try to do business class flights only... and invariably go bust!
The few people sharing your views here are certainly loud but in the real world (that thing outside, passed your front door..) a very small percentage of people do share your views..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I vote for banning adults who don't like kids.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stoatsbrother, thanks for the welcome!
I am in the UK and paying for my own pension, and healthcare - but that's another can of worms. Besides, they don't *need* to have been to Australia before the age of 10 to be able to have a job and be a functioning member of society!! Chances are they won't even remember the trip.
I'd take umbrage at passengers of any age who cause a racket and are discourteous, I wouldn't discriminate against kids only. It's just that with kids, it is not their fault but that of the person who decided to have them there.
I'm not trying to suggest they shouldn't be part of society at all. I'm just saying that the confines of an inescapable metal tube for 10+ hrs, in close proximity to dozens of strangers, is not the best showcase for them! A shorthaul flight I have no issue with..
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oh8777, welcome to Snowheads but I've got to say that it seems an odd way to introduce yourself by bascially calling a lot of the people on here selfish and bloody minded!!!
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oh8777, unless you have lifeelong top-level private health care - if your are a UK citizen you should know that your NI/Tax goes to pay current recipients, not into a fund to pay for your future. This has been the way it has been since the inception of the full NHS in 1948.
So - if you are an ordinary UK citizen, you will be dependent on these sprogs in the future. why do you think people get so concerned about demographic changes and changes in retirement age are being planned?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Stoatsbrother - I did know that, it's precisely why I don't expect to get a govt pension/much healthcare in future and anticipate paying for my own. But like I say, it's not like these kids are going to turn out to be criminals and layabouts if they don't get enough time on an aeroplane!!
Thanks nightshift - I am nice really it's just that babies on planes is a topic that makes me crazy. 
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| Quote: |
if your are a UK citizen you should know that your NI/Tax goes to pay current recipients,
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I was about to say that!
That is the basic principle of the NHS ( and most social securities in the world)... As said, hence the problem of the increasing percentage of pensioners vs. active population causing a reduction of pension/NHS money per individual because there aren't enough "youngsters" to pay for it...
You're not paying for your pension, you are paying someone else's..and those annoying babies on your flights will one day pay for your pension...
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FAQ
..did not do a very good job of my posts then! hey ho...happens a lot in forums like these..
