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Scott Punisher v Scott Mission

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
After three years away from the slopes I am finally answering the withdrawal syptoms and dustnig off my kit to get back to the mountains. I am currently weighing up my options on skis and would welcome feedback on the Scott Missions and Punishers.

Apologies if this post goes on a little but to help, here's a quick precis of where I'm up to so far:
Age 35
Height 5'10
Weight 12st 2lbs (170lbs) or 77kgs
Ski Style - fairly aggresive

Started skiing in 2000 and manged to cram in 15 weeks between 2000 and 2005. Have skied manly in Whistler, and done around three weeks in the Alps as wellas acouple of weeks in the USA. I was lucky to start when the shaped ski revolution was getting going and was able to combine a fair degree of natural aptitude and advances in technology to improving quite quickly.

My favoured terrain is to develop off piste, especially in deeper snow, but have never had the benefit of skiing in true consistently genuine powder. Having spent 8 weeks in total in Whistler it is hard to believe that this is the case but we've never been blessed with the type of conditons they've had in the past 2-3 years for example. That said, it has enbaled me to master skiing in awful conditions too (esp in 2005)!

I have been on two Dave Murray Camps and two Ski Company Holidays in Tignes which offer very focussed tuition and would classify myself as a competent skier at advanced level. Always want to stretch myself and will not avoid bumps or steeps and like the challenge. Can get down most runs and have skied numeorus double blacks in Whistler, but don'e venture into terrain parks.

When in a resort like Whistler, where inbounds off piste skiing can be done in the knowledge of relative safety, I will spend 60% of my time off piste. I currently own a pair of Rossi Bandit XX (170cm) and Salomon Crossmax 10 (160cm) but am wanting to look at a newer product. Scott seem to be making all the headlines in recent years and I am really interested in buying a pair of either Missions or Punishers as genuine all mountain skis.

Can anyone comment on the real difference other than the obvious graphics/cosmetics and twin tips. Most reviews say the Punisher's are slightly softer and more forgiving.

Are the Missions really more orientated to genuine Experts?
Is the Punisher a better ski for somebody of my weight (i.e would the Mission trip me up more?)
How good are both skis [b]really
on piste[/b]
Is it worth buying the punisher if you don't use terrain parks?

Lastly can anyone tell me if they know whether the Scott Santiago Mission launched in 2004-2005 is any different from the 2006-2007 ski now 're-sprayed' for 2007-2008 as I have a chance to buy a pair of 168cms from the 2004-2005 season? I'm not bothered about how they look, just want to know if they're the same?

Look forward to hearing advice from anyone whose skied both.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Welcome to Snowheads!

Solar Coaster wrote:
...would classify myself as a competent skier at advanced level. Always want to stretch myself and will not avoid bumps or steeps and like the challenge. Can get down most runs and have skied numeorus double blacks in Whistler, but don'e venture into terrain parks.


I'd probably put you more towards the intermediate category but then I guess it's all relative.

I haven't skied the Punisher but I can't believe you'd be able to really be able to tell the difference between them.

It's marketing really. If you prefer baggy pants, helmet and goggles go for the Punishers. If you're a form before function no hat and sun glasses get the missions. Easy. Wink

To the best of my knowledge the ski has not changed between the years. You do however want last seasons as they have Jesus on them. And Jesus he knows me and he knows I'm right. In fact I've been speaking to Jesus all my life.

Did I welcome you to the mad house? Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As Parlour says the Mission's haven't changed. The Punisher is the same ski but a twim tip. Scott's blurb says the Punisher has a slightly softer tail for park use but I've flexed them both side by side & can't really tell the difference - & at only 77kg you won't when skiing 'em. Punisher lengths are slightly longer to allow for the loss of running length in the upturned tail.

Personally I find 15/16m radius ski too tight for me in anything over boot depth & prefer something in the low-mid 20's.

Oh, & welcome also.
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Solar Coaster, I think the 168's will be too short for you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
spyderjon,I'm interested in what you mean by ('Personally I find 15/16m radius ski too tight for me in anything over boot depth & prefer something in the low-mid 20's'.) too tight.
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Solar Coaster, forgot to say that for your stats you should be on a 178 Mission or a 183 Punisher.

chris, when the snow gets deep or (more importantly) heavier/wetter/cruddier etc you need to make larger radius turns to allow the skis to cut through etc. Too tight a radius can suddenly hook-up/carve you around too tightly & either spit you out over the top or get you jetting across the slope in the backseat. I find my 22m skis ideal as they naturally make a smooth mid-size arc that I can easily steer tighter or shallower as required. Big Mountain charging skis for ripping down bowls often have a 30m+ radius for this reason.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
spyderjon, it seems to me that you are using your edges too much to make the turns.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
spyderjon, I only ask because I love skiing in deep powder between trees and at this, the Missions excel. The tight radius gives provides lightning quick direction change. Fantastic.
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spyderjon - Have you skied the Missions off piste? I have no problems making huge large radius turns in the deep on mine..........
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kitenski, no I haven't but I've skied a number of pairs of skis of the same radius off-piste. Didn't say that I had problems making large turns but that I didn't want them making too short a turn unless I deliberately steered them.

gold whitesmith, could be but I was on an off-piste course last week & didn't get that feedback from the instructor.
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strange perception Jon, I can't say I've ever noticed my Missions "making" too short a turn for me, or even suddenly carving me around too tightly, guess I'm not sure what you mean Wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski, it definately happened to me on my B5's but they were 11m radius so it was hardly suprising. I did still get the same feeling occasionally when either hooning big turns or shorter turns in grippy snow on my M11:B5 which were 15m radius. I always thought that this is the reason why most powder skis are designed with a 20m+ radius(?).

To quote Arno from another thread:
Arno wrote:
.......Sidecut is a matter of taste. I can't quite get my head round the smallness of some turning radiuses - Missions have a smaller radius than my on piste carver skis (Atomic SX11s) which just seems wrong somehow!......


Different strokes for different folks I suppose Toofy Grin
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Tried out the Missions in Morzine area this year. Conditions were rotten and they made life very easy....skied a 168cm and liked them but didn't get chance to ski in powder...felt at time that 178cm may be right choice.

Never quite sure what influence a change in weight may have.

At time of my last post I was 77kgs....now 73kgs.....can anyone advise whether this would have any real impact on my ideal length? Still feel 178cms will be better choice...but have found some deals on 168cms for last season's model which are tempting me....

If anyone can advise of places to go for a deal (am prepared to import too if th price is right) would love to hear from you!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Actually.... I think the turn of the Mission is too short for deep snow so I can understand spyderjon's point. I've had a go on these skis and they want to turn..a lot... that in itself is ok but for deeper snow you don't want to get into a situation where they cross the fall-line too much. The ski might be flexible enough..in design..to easily negate this..but I think a stiffer and broad platform with be more stable gunning reasonable slopes. Most deeper snow orientated skis will allow tight s's....but you work harder to do that.

I do think a softish ski like the Mission with its tight turn radius can lead to a tendency to over cook the turn in the deep. Fair enough if users have gotten used to that but I think a GS rad of around 23 is what you should be looking at.

Maybe if you are starting to look at Off-Piste, you might want the help there... and it cuts it quite well on piste as well, they say.
Make up your mind where you want the help..IMV.

For the OP's stats, maybe a Punisher but defo in 183. and probably if you go for the all round Mission, then 183 as well... I don't know what the other lenghts are, but forget anything low 170's..IMHO.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Solar Coaster, if it helps, I'm 60Kgs, female, and ski the Missions in a 168 and they're perfect for me, so I think they might be a bit too short for you.

I've heard that the Punishers are pretty much the same ski, there's a great deal here.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Cheers Guys.....points noted.
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 brian
brian
Guest
If you can get over the fact that (imo) they look f'ing awful, this is a worthy deal on a ski that would appear to fit your bill ...

take it to the ...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Solar Coaster, Just as a suggestion, I couldn't decide between these two either but then I tried out the Scott Neos. A semi twin tip with pretty much the sam dimensions as the above. It is slighlty stiffer than the Punishers and is certainly not a compramise between the two.
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if only those bridges where available in a larger size then the deal with the dukes would be tempting..

anyway rather then start a new thread, am currently looking at some punishers and was'nt to sure on the size...currently ride 181 apache cross fires so was thinmking 181 punishers..but i presume being twin tip the tip to tail measurement would mean a smaller contact surface then my 181 apaches so should I go for the 191s (which will open open a host of issues like fitting in my ski bag!!) I'm 16 stone and 6"4.
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papasmurf, welcome to the madhouse.

You're a big guy. For which you need a big ski. The 181 Punishers are more like a 175.

Get the 191s. If your ski bag is a 190 they'll go in no problem.
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Hi thanks for the welcome.

thats pretty much confirmed my thinking..now just need to decide finally which ski to go for and get all child like excited for the new season.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
papasmurf,

Good deals on Movement Goliaths..I think I saw Tele-P had some

http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=109&products_id=3397


or look here for info..or give them a call

http://www.noblecustom.co.uk/movement.html
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
cheers another option to consider...plus swiss which might be good for a bargin as my g/fs out there at the mo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
bump.

I was lucky enough to pop my heli-skiing 'cherry' last week and was given a pair of missions in 178 for the trip and I've been pondering their response since I got back. We were skiing in 2 week old settled snow which was a bit crusty here and there.

I was a bit surprised how hard they turned, as I found out following the GS style line set by the guide. My guess is that they are quite soft, but checking the stats I see they are also only 14.7m radius.

If I was buying a similar ski I'd probably go for something stiffer with a longer radius. I normally ski Karma's in 169, so something similar but in a longer length would do the trick I'd guess.
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Personally I found the Mission and Punnisher to be shockingly bad as soon as you pushed them, a huge dissapointment after all the hype that surrounds them. Floppy, lacking any "feel" and dead were the first impressions to me within about four turns on the piste, so I headed off the side into some crud where they felt like U-571 as soon as it got soft! Deffinately a ski that I would not recomend to anyone above an intermediate level who likes to ski in any way aggressive, and I know my g/f (mini-ni also on the forum) felt the same way about the Sheela's. As for any difference between the two, maybe the Punnisher is slightly softer but it's really not hugely noticable, all I was concerned with was getting the damn things off my feet and wasting my time on the snow!
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