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ski accident

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hi , i recently went to verbier on only my second skiing holiday. I have spent many an hour at the snowdome in tamworth practicing and having some lessons. I have been using a 150 ski as i find them easy to controll. I weigh 12 stone 6 and i am 5 foot 11 tall and have had my bindings set at 6.0 each time i ski at the snowdome . when i went to hire out some skis in verbier the guy in the rental shop was very reluctant to supply me with such a short ski however i insisted, as i had been using a 150 for some time nd did not wish to change now. I informed the guy of my weight and height and he set my bindings to a setting 8 , I questioned this as i am usually a 6 but he insisted the setting was correct.
i had a fabulous first day on the piste covering mainly blues and a few red runs. On day 2 i got maybe a bit overconfident and completed a few runs at speed. I was shifting down a run i had done 2 or 3 times before and i knew a steep part was coming up so i attempted to slow down but lost the inside edge my inside (LEFT) ski came off as i rolled down the hill but my right ski stayed on and caused me to fracture my tibia.

I would be gratefull for any answers as to what i did wrong and any comments on whether or not i should be using different size skis and what difference it would make if i used longer skis. or do you thing my bindings were set incorrectly ?

It has definatly not put me off skiing as i cant wait to do it again, look forward to any comments,

Regards Curly.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
curly, welcome to snowHead s

That doesn't sound good, sorry to hear it Sad . I'm sure several others will contribute but the DIN sounds a tad high considering your experience (you can search on Google for the DIN formula if you want to check). Either that or the right binding got stuck for some reason.

The skis sound very short for your weight and at speed, shorter skis will be far less stable than the same model in a greater length. This could have contributed to your loss of control initially.

That's my 2p's worth. Hope you're back on the snow soon snowHead
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Thanks for your comments Sharkymark that is just the sort of info i am looking for.
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curly, again welcome to snowheads. I'd echo sharkymark's comments, 150 does seem very short but then again people are skiing short skis more and more nowadays - I'm smaller than you @ 5'9" and 11st 6lb, and I ski a 170 or thereabouts - I have my Din set to 6 on those so I' would expect you to have had a higher din set to allow fpr your greater weight. I'm not sure how ski length affects the calculations but it would not surprise me to see that shorter skis = higher din as you are putting more pressure on the skis
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curly,
Welcome to snowHeads... sorry to hear about your accident Sad I fractured my tib and fib many years ago playing football but it hasn't stopped me from skiing so stick at it snowHead As regards your skis, I'm an inch taller than you and about 4kg heavier and I use 170cm skis with bindings set at either 5.5 or 6. I'm not a qualified ski tech but 8 seems quite high. Longer skis are more stable especially at higher speeds but I can't see how shorter skis would have been a problem Sad


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 24-01-08 8:53; edited 1 time in total
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curly, what did your instructor say about the ski length?
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The binding setting seems very high. To put it in perspective the binding setting for myself 95kg 6ft 3 as a type 3 skier would be 8.5 and as a type 2 skier (intermediate) would be 7.5. I've skied for about 15 weeks. I would also suggest that ski length was too short -165-170 sounds about right. A good tip is your ski should be chin high for a piste ski and longer for an all mountain. whether the binding setting was too high or not the binding didn't do what it was supposed to. Nobody can say whether these factors were the cause of your fall or accident but I would be concerned that your ski didn't release
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I have my DIN on 9 to 10 rear and a bit less on the front but that's because I don't really want my skis to come off that much, similar weight, but a bit shorter Embarassed
Could have just been the way you fell and unlucky that the bindings didn't release - I've done some spectacular cartwheeling where the skis stayed on, and just turns on a rutty course where they've fallen off.

Which edge did you catch was it the uphill ski?
Not meaning to be too critical and boring but maybe need to keep the speed down a bit until you've got the stopping/turning bit nailed?
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curly, it sounds to me that you would have been better on a longer ski. it's not unusual for people to have shorter skis with a lower Release Value when skiing in a snowdto in resort. Conditions in a snowdome are ideal for short skis/short turns, whereas outside in a big resort there is a large variety of conditions.
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curly, welcome to snowHead s, sorry to hear about your injury, and hope that your recovery is swift. I am not an expert, but my view would be that the shorter edge that you have got on a shorter ski may have contributed to you losing grip in the first place, but the possibly high DIN setting may then have been the cause of the injury.

Logically I would think that shorter ski = less able to put torque in a twisting injury and therefore DIN setting should be lower (not higher) to make release happen more easily- but I am not an engineer or a skitech!

When I started skiing I was on 135cm skis for the first week and was a very similiar build to you - but I didn't have enough knowledge to even think about DIN settings.
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There are experts on here who will explain better than me but I'm about the same size as you and I ski 168cm with a DIN of 6.75. Some on here would call 168 to short.

Sounds like you made the classic mistake of trusting your own very limited knowledge over the guy in the shop on length, your skis were definitely too short, even if they are skis that are supposed to be skied short. Shorter skis obviously feel way easier to ski so you'll feel more confident but you'll also have less edge to control your speed. I wouldn't feel to dumb about it though, I reckon pretty much everyone makes the same mistake when they first start.

The DIN sounds way too high though, were you honest about what skier level you are its a I, II or III, from your experience I'd say you're a I.
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little tiger wrote:
curly, what did your instructor say about the ski length?


i did not have an instructor in verbier as i was with 7 other lads all instructor free. I will have some lessons on my next hol though.
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curly, Welcome to snowHead 's Sorry to hear about your accident.

Ski length is not taken into account for Din settings, the other very important measurement is boot sole length. (also age for someone over 50)
At 12 st 6 and 5 ft 11 (on a second holiday, but only you know how agressively you ski and fit you are) the Salomon Din chart would suggest a max setting of 7 @ sole length 271-290 6 1/2 @ 291-310 and 6 @ 311-330 and 5 1/2 @330+

If you told the shop it was only your 2nd holiday, shoot the rental tech I say Evil or Very Mad
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
This is something I've mentioned before, but when I've hired skis in Austria I've always had to fill out a card with all my details - height, weight, age, experience etc. I'm not sure if this is a legal requirment or something to do with the hire shop's insurance. On the other hand in France I've never filled out any form and sometimes the ski tech has taken a quick glance at me, asked how long I've skiied for and that's that. This is my experience although I realise others may have had different experiences. Don't know what the trend is in Swizterland though?
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gsb,

Thanks for your feedback ,the rental guy was not interested in my ability he just wanted me to have longer skis.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
nbt,

I think you are right my friend , I will opt for a longer ski for my next lessons and get used to them.
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Elizabeth B,

Thank you for your comments , I believe you are right in what you say and I will be opting for a longer ski next time .
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Hywel, yeah I filled out a similar form in Switzerland when I rented on my first trip. Oddly, when I rented in Canada the ski tech just did them to what he thought (happened to be right). Given the liability culture over there, that surprised me a bit
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Curly, Hope you have a swift recovery. I am a ski/boot fitter on a dry slope in the north of England. Based on what info you have given, I would have gone for a 160-165 ski on a DIN of around 6, although snow settings are usually 1 higher than dry slopes. As others have said DIN settings are not based on ski length but weight and/or height and boot length. A setting of 8 was definitely wrong. Personally I ski on the lowest setting I think I can get away with. When I was a bit lighter I skid 160's on 4.5. These days being about 16 stone and 5'10" I ski 163's on 6. The chart says I should be on 6.5 to 7, but my skis stay on even in hard turns. If they started to pop off I'd increase it. Some would say I should ski longer skis but I'm happy the way it is. Basically, if in doubt, it's probably a good idea to go with low settings until proven otherwise You can adjust them with a screwdriver yourself if you know what you're doing. Oh and the thing about under 10's and over 50's just means that you go up to the next line on the chart, whatever that value is rather than a DIN of 5 becoming 4 for example. The increment could just be .25.
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Deerplay,

Thank you very much for your comments I will take them on board and will deffinatly go for a longer ski with a lower setting.
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I wouldn't have though the difference between 150, 160,170, etc would really make that much difference for a beginner skier regarding stability and the likelihood of crashing when stopping - longer skis will be harder for a beginner to initiate turns so shorter is not a bad thing. Sounds a bit like a loft issue. wink
Still, would agree with the high binding setting, though even on 8 breaking a leg seems pretty unlucky. Sad
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Hi,

my commiseration's on your recent accident, I too was on a similar holiday earlier this month with some mates, I was boarding myself but one of my mates had a similar accident as yourself, come to think of it we were in Verbier too....... Funny how coincidences appear like that.

Anyway, my mate was trying to race down what was in essence a fairly steep Blue when he fell but his ski didn't come off and........Curley is that you???
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:
Personally I ski on the lowest setting I think I can get away with. When I was a bit lighter I skid 160's on 4.5.


Me too - and it's good to hear someone with experience say the same. I am 10stone and ski 160s at 4.5. But I am an old lady. I would have thought the DIN setting way too high for a beginner very liable to have slow speed falls and very unlikely to be caning it down a couloir. As for the skis, if they were conventional skis they probably were a bit short in terms of stability, but there are short skis (eg Atomic 120s) designed to be skied by everyone, so there's no absolute rule. Very, very, sorry to hear about your broken leg; hope it soon mends. Next time, maybe a week in ski school? Groups of "instructor free" lads can get a bit carried away. And maybe not Verbier? There are loads of better places to progress in the early stages of skiing. Hope you're back on your horse soon, Curly. [/quote]
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curly, IMHO the DIN setting was too high for a skier of your standard. I ski 175cm, sole length 325, and weigh in at 225kg. Mine are set on 6.75.
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
curly, IMHO the DIN setting was too high for a skier of your standard. I ski 175cm, sole length 325, and weigh in at 225kg. Mine are set on 6.75.


I've gathered from all of the posts that your aren't small but 225Kg? Shocked wink
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jtr, Embarassed Embarassed that figure includes my 100kg lunchbox Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,

Hi pam thank you for your kind comments , i am no spring chicken myself infact 40 years young today. I will be taking some lessons on my next trip, allthough i do feel very competent on blues and some reds , i think the short skis and the speed i was travelling at was not a good combination ( basically my lack of knowledge ) but i just cannot wait to get back in the alps.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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drbsparks,

you are giving too much away my friend you should have said a very icy narrow black run in a whiteout on one ski going backwards !!!!! some mate you are.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
curly wrote:

i am no spring chicken myself infact 40 years young today.

Happy birthday Curly!
Hope the leg is healing well snowHead
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drbsparks, Welcome to snowHead , but in 'ratting' on a m8 , I suspect you get the shoite-mate of the year award ! Stick around.

curly, I'm old like Frosty the Snowman, as well. 1.80m, 85 kg ( this week) , same skis as aforementioned Dad ( but 170cm) and my Din is set at 5.5 .... never have pre-released yet . See no reason why a much shorter ski would be an issue ..... technique ( and lessons, big-time) perhaps? Enjoy your Birthday !!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Curly, snap if you'll excuse the pun. I too broke my leg with a DIN setting that seemed too high. The advice I was given may help you too.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=31407
Hope you're better soon.
Happy Birthday- I'm not 40 for a few more months Smile

Martin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Does seem really high.

I'm taller and weigh more than you, on 183's and I ski aggressively and I rarely set my DIN above 7.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
curly wrote:
pam w,

..., allthough i do feel very competent on blues and some reds , i think the short skis and the speed i was travelling at was not a good combination ( basically my lack of knowledge )...


not entirely sure the short skis have that much to do with it...
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Quote:
not entirely sure the short skis have that much to do with it...


me neither. A longer ski that didn't come off would make things worse.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
8 does seem very high for someone with your eperience.
I've skied loads more and often ski quite hard and I set mine at 7-8.

Still, if after all that you're still determined to ski, you're obviously a proper snowHead! Wink

Welcome to snowHeads snowHead
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admin,
thanks mate i just love it and wished i would have cut out those drinking summer hols in the past and gone skiing instead, but hey as long as i can manage to go every year from now on or more if cash allows i will be a happy bunny.
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curly, Your din was definitely too high. I would also say that if you enjoy and feel comfortable with a shorter ski, there is no reason to feel obliged to go longer. You broke a bone, not because the ski was too short, but because the binding didn't release when it should have. Hope you recover soon and enjoy your return to snow sliding snowHead The only way to deal with crappy hire service is to educate yourself...
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curly, without knowing your boot sole length, it would be impossible to say whether the setting was too high or not, anything else is mere conjecture. Do you know your boot sole length?

Edit: quick check: - based on your weight & height, anything from 5.5 to 10 could be valid.

(anecdotal: normally when I ski at an indoor slope, I take my DIN setting down about 1, and tend to go around 5-10cm shorter than on piste)
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curly, I wonder if it was the same hire shop I used for my first ski holiday?

This was January 1997, so most of the staff may have moved on (and I can't remember which shop it was except that it was in the main "square" near the Medran lifts).

But as a complete beginner, 5' 9", about 14 stone 10, they set my bindings to 9! I was lucky in taht I didn't break anything, but I did do minor damage to knee ligaments in afall where the ski didn't come off, which took about 3 months to heal properly.

Since then, I have never skied at more than 6.5 (and I weigh 1/2 a stone more now, and ski faster).

I have never had a pre-release, but the skis have always coe off when they needed to.
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Curly welcome to snowHead Sorry to hear about your leg.

First things first skis are way to short you should be on 160cm to 164 would be ideal I am the same 5 10 and 90 kg and ski 162 skis

Your DIN setting was way to hight I am classed as an expert skier and qualified instructor I have my DIN at 8 but I am a very aggresive skier. But the higher din means it is harder for the ski to release so knot sure how it contributed to your accident. I would think it may be the shorther ski

Eat lots of Liver and Kidney for protien should speed up the recovery Best wishes
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