 Poster: A snowHead
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| I am still not sure David has understood that the issue about hotlinks was that not only was he appropriating the image without permission, but was also costing the owners money by using their server bandwidth to display the image. |
... but it's important to recognise that image holders can easily (as I understand it) block hot-linking. If a site has concerns about potential misuse of its bandwidth, why would it not block hot-linking? No one's answered this yet.
PJSki, there was no "business start-up plan". There was no dishonesty on my part.
Moderators, please check out PJSki's postings on this thread. In my view they're not written in good faith, they are sometimes designed to provoke upset, and are sometimes defamatory. Thank you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| PJSki wrote: |
| boredsurfin, I know it goes against the grain for you to side against Goldsmith, but try to put your issues to one side on this matter. |
As you well know, I take no sides in this area of snowHeads 'debates', I was merely pointing out that sH has no paid staff whereas the SCGB has paid New Media staff and a Director responsible for New Media.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boredsurfin, this is perfectly true. I think the Club has 8 staff on new media operations, but I don't understand the relevance of your point to issues of copyright or plagiarism.
Edit: a good illustration of that would be pistehors.com, which is run on minimal resources but has generated a volume of original news content and journalism that is highly impressive.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 26-01-08 23:45; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| boredsurfin, I know it goes against the grain for you to side against Goldsmith, but try to put your issues to one side on this matter. |
As you well know, I take no sides in this area of snowHeads 'debates', I was merely pointing out that sH has no paid staff whereas the SCGB has paid New Media staff and a Director responsible for New Media. |
Fair enough. But they still held their hands up to the error, and as they had linked and credited to winterhighland stuff in the past, I feel they should be given some slack.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith, why don't you do us all a favour and shut-up?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, I was pointing out that sH has no paid staff and yet makes the same error as the SCGB with it's Director of New Media and (according to you) 8 staff. 
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I'm not clear that we're talking about errors (in the mistake sense) or a deliberate publishing policy of "Let's copy the photos and assume there'll be no complaints".
Credits have begun to appear on photos on the SCGB news stories. They haven't started to appear on snowHeads news photos.
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Winterhighland, he's a broken record. But what do you say to the point that over a one week period prior to the article in question they had used your content but also linked back and credited the material?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, But c/o is hardly a credit but I guess better than nothing 
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| DG wrote: |
... but it's important to recognise that image holders can easily (as I understand it) block hot-linking. If a site has concerns about potential misuse of its bandwidth, why would it not block hot-linking? No one's answered this yet.
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and any one who doesn't have a burglar alarm deserves to be broken into.
Let me edit your text for you .".. In my personal opinion it's important to recognise that image holders can easily (as I understand it) block hot-linking. If a site has concerns about potential misuse of its bandwidth, why would it not block hot-linking? They've got it coming to them haven't they. No one's answered this yet.
Fixed it for you! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| b]Winterhighland[/b]That's what I call putting forward a constructive case!! rolling eyes |
Winterhighland, he's a broken record. But what do you say to the point that over a one week period prior to the article in question they had used your content but also linked back and credited the material?[/quote]
[EDIT winterhighland deleted his post]
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 27-01-08 0:05; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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PJSki, I see David is limbering up with the lack of good faith, defamation etc etc. Prepare for legal language or outing!
Don't you think you ought to throw this fish back in? 
Now back to the Swiller challenge...
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stoatsbrother, David shouldn't be allowed to play with sharp objects, matches or go on the internet.
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You know it makes sense.
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PJSki, Maybe, but if the SCGB let him back inoi their chat room we wouldnt see him here?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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boredsurfin, would you like some betting action on that?
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Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother, about the same odds as Bode Swiller doing his dash 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| Prepare for legal language |
It might be more entertaining to prepare for illegal language.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boredsurfin, the thing with David is that he feeds off of conflict, much of that conflict he generates himself. Take him out of the equation and you remove much of the hostility that currently exists between certain parties. He is a past master at exploiting devision. Don't be fooled by him, is my advice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bode Swiller,
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an excellent summing up and relatively short for a lawyer (the summing up not you).
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Thank you. Unfortunately, I'm pixie-sized too. (Just got mown down by a few tall people at Covent Garden, don't know what it is about that place, but it always happens there, people braying into their overpriced champagne about three feet above my head, entirely oblivious of my presence.  ) I'm now wondering whether I can face reading the rest of this thread, I notice my name's been mentioned...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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/Winterhighland, taking this incident in the context of the stories that appeared in the week prior, how do you view the seriousness of the transgression on a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being blatant and persistent and 0 being a mistake, just for an example.
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| PJSki wrote: |
plectrum,
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| You are the only one who decided to take it off topic and you continually force it off on this new route. |
Whether you like it or not he has a point about snowHeads use of copyright material. Other people have also said he has a point. Stop being a thread nazi just because you don't want it discussed.
Stop blowing smoke! The SCGB has accepted fault and apologised. Time for others to deal with their own issues. |
Hear hear.
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One point I might just pop into the pot at this point:
A very high proportion of what is written on this site, and posted as photos, is not plagiarised at all. That certainly applies to winterhighland.com too.
So the key issue is who has the right to all that wonderful original text and visual matter? Many people post it very generously, with a true public domain spirit. Others need to protect it.
It should never be commercially exploited without permission.
If you go back to the founders of this site, and the eleven (I think it was) skiers who met at the Cafe Royal to form the SCGB in 1903, they were all expressing original information and opinion. Winterhighland is predominantly local skiers giving fantastic first-hand accounts of their days on the Scottish slopes.
Plagiarism sucks. Originality trucks.
Above all, trust between originator, user and reader is paramount.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
............. Being admin of a forum and able to check IP addresses can be a real eye opener I tell you!  ............ |
OT: That surprises me - I thought most broadband users were on a floating IP - different on each log in. Last time I looked up information about btinternet that seemed to be the case. Have I got that wrong?
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Maybe this thread should be moved to "Suggestions/Requests"?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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achilles, If you are posting from a network at work you will almost certainly have a fixed ip, and that would probably pin down the most enthusiastic sock puppets. I wonder if you could also pin a floating IP user down a bit by trace routing them whilst they are online and finding the last step before their floating ip? Might at least pin down the isp if nothing else. Having said which - it is probably the way my small drawer of sock-puppets share an e mail address that gives things away to admin.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 27-01-08 11:36; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| This is all a bit boring frankly, and it isn't going to change anybody's view of things. The number of hits the thread has garnered probably reflects the same aspect of human behaviour which causes people to gawp at crashes on the other side of the motorway whilst running into the back of someone else. |
I love it!
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| I would link to clear one misunderstanding up - at least one poster appears to have drawn the conclusion that David was attacking the snowHeads policy because he was defending the ski club. I don't believe this to be true, for reasons which will be obvious to many of us. I am still not sure David has understood that the issue about hotlinks was that not only was he appropriating the image without permission, but was also costing the owners money by using their server bandwidth to display the image. |
Thanks for clarifying that, frankly I didn't understand the technicalities either.
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| And I think it is rather bad form to criticise the snowHeads owners policy here btw. Looks petty to me. |
Just to clarify my own position, I wasn't criticising snowHeads policy, I was just observing that it would be nice to have it clarified that we are doing as we would be done by.
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Game to Hurtle.
Admin to serve.
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You know it makes sense.
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Game to Hurtle
Goldsmith on court at the moment shouting "it's meant to be admin playing... not me..."
PJski to serve... he throws the grenade high into the air....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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She's lovely, isn't she?
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, Lovely cup
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Do you think she might be available in 9 pages time if Swiller cries off?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hot-linked photo.
Call the police.
New balls please
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, Lets wait for PJski to remove the old ones...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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admin, if she's streakin' I'm streakin'.
Don't know iof anyone's mentioned this yet but SCGB should be creating original news or investigating stories further... they have the staff to do it. Linking to other news stories from elsewhere is the pinnacle of laziness.
Isn't it great to see Tim Brown back among us?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller,
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Don't know iof anyone's mentioned this yet but SCGB should be creating original news or investigating stories further... they have the staff to do it. Linking to other news stories from elsewhere is the pinnacle of laziness.
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Whilst I don't necessarily disagree (if truth be told, I don't much care) I think this goes beyond what is right, or even interesting, to discuss on this forum. It's a saddo sort of occupation for snowHeads just to knock the Skeeb for the sake of it.
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Saddo Swiller, I don't think Hurtle's referring to you specifically.
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Hurtle, Do you think that the News section of SCGB helps to attract potential customers to commerical services such as membership, skitracks, insurance etc etc?
Do you think that the News section of Snowheads helps to attract potential customers to commercial services such as PSB/MSB/EoSB?
Do you think that organising PSB/MSB/EoSB can be classified as a commercial operation?
Are there any other seriously commercially profitable areas to Snowheads and does the News section help to encourage activity in these areas?
Personally I think the News section is fundamental alongside the Snow reports and Resort reviews to attract people to SCGB and its various commercial offers. I do not think the News section here has much to do with the success or otherwise of the commercial activities if there actually are any of this site.
Because of this I think that there is a fundamental difference between the responsabilities on SCGB(commercial site) vs Snowheads(community site) vs an (non profit)Individual.
If you are making money even indirectly from your use of other peoples work then it should be essential to make this clear to the owner before use to see what if anything they want for their products/services.
If you are just providing a free service with no commercial benefit and you are using other peoples work where it is also provided for free then it is polite to get in touch with the owners but not as essential.
If you are an individual using freely available material and not reproducing it for commercial benefits then I think you should do what you want and actually I think it would be a waste of time if you got in contact with the owners both for you but more importantly for them. If you are a really nice guy then link but heh also remember to always cross the road at the lights, always hold the door open for the person behind you, cover your mouth when you cough and always always always say bless you when someone sneezes.
In terms of bandwidth theft.....guys stop winding David Goldsmith up, if he ever meets the website owner whose bandwidth he may have one time used then buy him a pint as I am sure it will cover the costs.
Mayb it is just the internet because if I started a free paper in london and used other peoples photos and news editorials without paying for them I would get sued. If I was also offering loads of my chargeable products in that free newspaper as they do then I would be in even more trouble. This c/o effort seems laughable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Saddo Swiller, I don't think Hurtle's referring to you specifically. |
Correct
plectrum,
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Do you think that the News section of SCGB helps to attract potential customers to commerical services such as membership, skitracks, insurance etc etc?
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I don't know. Not me, anyway.
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Do you think that the News section of Snowheads helps to attract potential customers to commercial services such as PSB/MSB/EoSB?
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Ditto.
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Do you think that organising PSB/MSB/EoSB can be classified as a commercial operation?
Are there any other seriously commercially profitable areas to Snowheads and does the News section help to encourage activity in these areas?
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Doubt it. The profits must be small, if any.
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Personally I think the News section is fundamental alongside the Snow reports and Resort reviews to attract people to SCGB and its various commercial offers.
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And your evidence for that is...?
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Because of this I think that there is a fundamental difference between the responsabilities on SCGB(commercial site) vs Snowheads(community site) vs an (non profit)Individual.
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I wouldn't disagree with that in principle, but see my comment on copyright below.
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If you are just providing a free service with no commercial benefit and you are using other peoples work where it is also provided for free then it is polite to get in touch with the owners but not as essential.
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Forgive me for being a boring lawyer (albeit one who has seen the light, and doesn't practise as one any more) but the law is the law. If copyright exists, it should be respected, in whatever context. snowHeads, SCGB, David Goldsmith, whoever, should all be observing the law and - apologies for labouring this point - particularly if we're all playing with stones in glass houses.
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Hurtle, Have a good weekend  I have a plane to catch unfortunately not to anywhere snowy!
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FAQ
