 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
We've just been told that we cannot fit snow chains to our car due to wheel arch clearance problems. We have an Audi A4 with alloy wheels, rim size 17. Has anyone else encountered this problem? We are driving to Hinterglemm for February half term week. It's a company car which is changed every three years, so we're reluctant to spend money buying new wheels, etc. The lady I spoke to said the autosock would solve the clearance problems but that it's not legal in Austria. Is it too risky to rely on just the autosock? Any advice would be gratefully received.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Have you thought about just getting winter tyres? Cheaper than new wheels, and probably fine for Hinterglemm The road up to the village isn't a windy mountain road, it's along the valley, and will be cleared quite quickly after a fall. As long as you aren't actually staying up a mountain you are likely to be fine with just winter tyres. I don't think the Glemm valley road has the snow chains sign at the start of it. Can anyone advise?
Having been literally stuck without chains once, I've always insisted on them in hire cars, and have since witnessed lots of chainless cars being stopped by police on a couple of occasions, but only during/after a very heavy fall while the ploughs clear the roads.
So I am a bit of a once bitten twice shy person, however considering your situation and where you are going, I would just get some winter tyres.
Never heard of autosock TBH so can't advise there.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
sk8girl, www.snowchains.co.uk will make some low profile Weissenfells for you. that will fit, or Spikes-Spider will work too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
sk8girl, I have been to Hinterglemm four times so far. You will not have any problem on the main road in the valley, but may have on the small streets in the village.
Some hotels are up on the hill, a steep road leads to them and you might need a snow chain. We had two winters in Hinterglemm when we had to put the snow chains on from the first day, and we had to keep it on until the last day. The roads are cleared, but not immediately.
If your accomodation is close to the main road, winter tyres will do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
sk8girl, but winter tyres are prety expensive for a one-off trip! I have never used autosocks, but once drove up an extremely snowy road (I had put chains on) behind a car with autosocks, which was managing very well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
It is a legal requirement to have either winter tyres OR snow chains in Austria in winter.... You'll notice that many Germans and Austrian replace their swanky alloys on their BM's, Mercs and Audis with steel wheels for winter (a) so they don;t crunch them on a kerb and (b) so they can get snow chains to fit easily. I understand u can get chains to fit low proifile alloys but would guess that Audi would not recomment them in case u scuff your expensive wheels with them. Personally I'd go with Spydermans offer above.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The auto sock is often descibed as "mangelhaft" by the central European car mags.
http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=on&search=mangelhaft&relink=on
My car has 17" alloys in summer and 16" steel rims in winter - 16" wheels might get you round the clearance issue. It's possible that you could pick up a set of steel rims and winter tyres on ebay but I would still carry chains if you are travelling the back roads or any steep alpine roads.
Fresh snow isn't normally the problem, it's frozen slush / ice. In the alps it can be sub zero for weeks on end so winter conditions are more severe than the UK.
If you don't have winter tyres .... (All season tyres are better than summer tyres for snow but not on ice).
1) Your braking distances (especially with a full laden car) will be much longer than the cars around you because they will have winter tyres. Anybody without winter tyres in Austria during the winter is considered an idiot because they put themselves and others at risk. They also inconvenience other people - I've seen people struggling to get a pair of snow chains on while parked at the side of the road as other drivers try to get past.
2) You are much likely to use the chains as summer tyres have much less grip in winter conditons. It could be that on a longer journey where others with winter tyres don't even have to get the chains out of the boot you have to put on / take off the chains numerous times.
3) There could be insurance implications. If you have summer tyres and are involved in a crash (whether it is your fault or not) you are likely to get the blame. Insurance companies have in the past refused to pay out under such circumstances.
If you travel without winter tyres or chains the police can demand that you park up until conditions improve.
Summer tyres and chains are legal but be careful, leave plenty of space between you and the guy in front. Don't try and keep up with the local guy in front either (no doubt he will have winter tyres) and let others pass.
There are plenty of threads here on snow chains and winter tyres that can be located by using the search function at the top left of the page under the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm hiring a 9 seater MPV in munich airport to get to saalbach-hinterglemm w/c 23rd feb. I've been told I won't need chains but winter tyres are LEGAL requirement. FYI Budget rental are the only company to make this, and the associated charges, crystal clear on their website and that's one of the reason I went for them instead of some cheaper companies.
AFAIK German/Austrian police are apparently pretty hot on the issue and any accident no matter the circumstance will be blamed on you if you don't have winter tyres on! 
For the OP sthe spyder spike things are pretty expensive, you may be cheaper getting some 2nd hand rims and winter tyres of ebay, also solves any drive wheel issues if your A4 is quattro.
joe
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Why would your wheel arch clearance be better with a 16" rim and a full profile tyre?
I'm renting a 9 Seater VW to dive Innsbruck to St ANton next week, I suspect this won't have winter tyres, but I have ordered chains, does this keep me legal?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| Why would your wheel arch clearance be better with a 16" rim and a full profile tyre? |
The overall circumference might be slightly smaller and the tyre isn't normaly as wide giving increased clearance.
| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| I'm renting a 9 Seater VW to dive Innsbruck to St ANton next week, I suspect this won't have winter tyres, but I have ordered chains, does this keep me legal? |
Yes carrying chains will make you legal but a fully laden 9 seater VW will be a challenge in winter conditions with summer tyres. I've seen cars with summer tyres on just slide sideways trying to pull away from the lights. If you are renting from Innsbruck it will almost certainly have winter tyres. (even so I'd still take chains as well though).
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 15-01-08 16:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Not sure how relevant this is, but bear in mind that problems with fitting snow chains are often not down to wheel arch clearance but to the chain fouling suspension, steering and brake gear inboard of the wheel. This can be overcome by using a Spikes Spider type chain, which doesn't go inboard of the wheel (although they apparently don't work as well as conventional chains).
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| I'm renting a 9 Seater VW to dive Innsbruck to St ANton next week, I suspect this won't have winter tyres, but I have ordered chains, does this keep me legal? |
Ghostdog, Check with your hire company, they will legally have to put winter tyres on the vehicle for you and charge you for it at the pick-up desk, no choice. I might be wrong but when I checked the T&C's I think all firms say this in the small print (except budget who tell you outright, I mentioned earlier).
Joe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for that. Never worried before, just drove off to Mayrhofen a happy bunny with no cares in the world, but all this white stuff this year 
Always wondered how I would get back down from Sauze in a mini bus with no chains if it ever snowed, but the Milky Way's snow record over the last 8 years has rendered that thought irrelevant so far.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
joe1978, If winter tyres are a legal requirement on a car in winter for the whole country (not just the mountains), I don't see why hire company can charge you extra to have them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| peura wrote: |
| joe1978, If winter tyres are a legal requirement on a car in winter for the whole country (not just the mountains), I don't see why hire company can charge you extra to have them. |
Agreed they maybe should not charge them as an extra but they can and should be able to increase their winter prices to cover the extra costs of winter tyres and the labour involved in changing the tyres of a hire fleet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
So will they increase the cost of hiring in the summer for changing the tyres back again? The cost of keeping the car "road legal" should be factored into the general rental prices. And winter tyres don't cost all that much more (in fact mine winters cost less*).
--- of course what they should do and what they actually do may not be the same thing 
edit:
* than the tyres they replaced
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 16-01-08 14:32; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| peura wrote: |
| joe1978, If winter tyres are a legal requirement on a car in winter for the whole country (not just the mountains), I don't see why hire company can charge you extra to have them. |
The legal requirement is winter tyres or chains but I've never heard of a car hire place in Austria using summer tyres in the winter. If they did I asssume they would now have to supply chains. Depending on when / where the hire customer is going to, chains may/may not be required (when the car has winter tyres) hence the reason they are an option.
The hire companies change their tyres over twice a year and this cost is normally factored into the hire rate for all customers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
| The hire companies change their tyres over twice a year and this cost is normally factored into the hire rate for all customers. |
That is what I was trying to say . Obviously, not everyone needs chains or ski racks so they are chargeable extras.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Agree that compulsory extras are the way of the "no-frills" web suppliers.
| Quote: |
| Could an analogy be child seats? legal for certain aged children but you only pay if you need them?? |
Not really 'cause I would have no need for child seats whereas other might.
| Quote: |
| are winter tyres not more expensive? |
The ones I'm currently using cost £50.60 compared to the summer tyres (I now use) which cost £49.80. For me the lifetime is broadly similar (even taking into account that winter tyres "wear out" at 4mm not 1.5mm). Thus the only cost was the rims at £10 each from a scrap yard.
edit Oh and two lots of fitting/valves
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 16-01-08 14:38; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The child seat analogy doesn'twork as not everyone needs a childseat but it's a bit difficult to get around using tyres.
The law clearly states winter tyres or snowchains. Just because it's legal to drive with summer tyres and snowchains in the boot doesn't mean it is safe to do so.
I can only see the accountabiity being with the driver, hence the reason the customer should check these things. I agree with joe1978 that it's worth checking this all out first so that you don't go for the cheapest base price only to get hammered with extras later. When a foreigner drives on UK roads he/she is expected to adhere to the rules of the road. Same apllies to Johny foreigner in Europe otherwise there would be too many head on crashes.
There are two tyres changes a year so it equals itself out.
The cost difference between winter and summer tyres is very small.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, Car hire is from munich and from what I've read all vehicles from there are fitted with winter tyres and you pay regardless...
from budget t&c's...
***General Station/Country Information
From 01.12.2007 until 28.02.2008 due to an amendment of the German law, all vehicles are equipped with winter tyres. A mandatory fixed local fee of € 5,00 including tax per day is charged to all rentals. Outside the mentioned period winter tyres will be charged with a fee of € 13,00 including tax per day.
In the other periods winter equipment are on request for all locations except Munich Downtown and Munich Airport whereby a 72 hours confimed notice will be required.
Customers must go to the Budget desks.
All customers must show their passports at the beginning of
rental.
Requested pick up, contact office directly. ****
It's also stated on the front page of any booking. 
joe
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
National in Austria fit winter tyres as standard for winter. Can't see any sign of additional charges. I booked through some website that is actually holiday autos who are of course a consolidator. Can't see any thing on their site about additional charge and I wasn't charged 2 years ago.
Oddly, I can'y book a bus through National's site for a Saturday (2pm) pick up as the airport office is closed! I know Austria shuts down like Germany on Sat pm, but car rental, at an airport?! Holiday Autos have me down for out of office charge, so hopefully some poor wee Austrian will be late for his lunch and my bus will be waiting for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Thanks for all your advice. I've spoken to snowchains.co.uk and we're going to go for the Klack & Go "Quattro", which I'm told will be fine for our Audi. After reading all the other recent threads on snow chains, I'll be interested to see if these particular chains are as easy to fit as they look on the video on the website! Mind you, husband will be doing it - someone has to stay in the car and keep the kids company!!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Don't see why you shouldn't be able to get chains - we have 18" alloys on our S4 in the summer and 17" alloys (but not low profile) in the winter for that very reason, our chains (still unused, touch wood) just came from the Swiss Coop
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)
I was trying to find analogies on the counter point but failed. 