 Poster: A snowHead
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A 60-year-old man is taking an 8-year-old boy and his dad to court, claiming the 8-year-old caused a ski-slope collision that left the older man with a shoulder injury. David Pfahler filed suit in Denver federal court claiming Scott Swimm, then 7 years old, was skiing fast and recklessly when they collided in January. The suit says Pfahler suffered a torn shoulder tendon...
Scott's father, Robb Swimm, claimed he saw the crash and that Scott was skiing slowly and in control.
Scott's mother, Susan Swimm, said her son weighs 48 pounds and could not have been going more than 10 mph.
The suit seeks compensation for physical therapy, vacation time, nursing and medical services provided by Pfahler's wife and other expenses. It estimates the couple's losses at more than $75,000.
From: http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Dec20/0,4670,ODDChildSued,00.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com:80/news/nation/20071220-1049-wst-childsued.html
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pathetic culture
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Christopher, Why?
Without commenting on the specifics of this case, if somebody causes another damage through negligence, why should they not pay for that damage?
And why should that not apply to the parents/guardians of children who do so?
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sueing a 7 year old. for gods sake.
"Scott's mother, Susan Swimm, said her son weighs 48 pounds and couldn't have been going more than 10 mph. "
"was skiing slowly and in control."
that is a complete accident, which if happened to me i'd be angry but i wouldnt sue a child.
if this accident happened in the alps, no one would sue. come on lets get things in pespective.
i dont see how that would cost £40k.
I'll laugh at you if you were in america and then accidently injured someone and got sued. You'd soon eat your words.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The pop should've been controling his nipper.
The older dude wants to top up his pension.
If gramps wins, good luck to him.
If he is wrong and he loses, then he will have to pony up some of his own cash.
Everyone's a winner.
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Only if you believe the parents Christopher. I've seen a BASI Trainer mown down by a kid of no more than 10 who was trying to buzz them and misjudged it. The trainer was stationary at the time and in plain sight.
If it happened to me in the Alps and I had lost money because of it then I'd sue. Not if I truly thought it to be an accident.
If you're wondering how to rack up £40k of costs then you've obviously never seen a private medical bill - let alone an American one. Typical American jobs have no more than 10-15 days annual leave and are very frugal about sickness benefits - so time off work will have cost the bloke money.
You have wonder what happened to push a 60 year old over the edge of litigation.
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| Quote: |
If he is wrong and he loses, then he will have to pony up some of his own cash.
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Probably no-win no-fee so no he won't.
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if said boy was skiing slowly and in control how did he manage to hit Gramps. Also parent is hardly likely to say he was skkiing and fast out of control and sent Gramps flying but its pathetic to sue him. Also we all carry ski insurance so it should be an insurance issue!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's Fox News, people (although admittedly picked up off an AP wire). You're commenting on a story without having any clue of what actually happened.
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interesting to know whether the littl'uns cause more accidents than say, boarders 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ami in berlin wrote: |
| You're commenting on a story without having any clue of what actually happened. |
That's it you're picking it up nicely 
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I think the wee man was high on crack and thought it would be funny as feck to mow down old' granpa' who had knicked his slot in the lift Q just minutes before. Just before impact the wee lad was heard to shout "DIE, GRANPA, DIE!" and "DEATH TO ALL CLOUD HEADS - WE DON'T NEED YOUR KIND HERE!!!!"
Sounds totally justified to me
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You know it makes sense.
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Snip stuff specific to this case, since your initial comment was much more general.
| Christopher wrote: |
that is a complete accident, which if happened to me i'd be angry but i wouldnt sue a child.
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It will, of course, be the parent who will pay if anybody does. But you can't sue the parent dierectly for something their offspring have done.
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if this accident happened in the alps, no one would sue. come on lets get things in pespective.
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Why do you think nobody would sue?
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i dont see how that would cost £40k.
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Again, totally specific to this case.
Although if you had private medical treatment, it could.
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I'll laugh at you if you were in america and then accidently injured someone and got sued. You'd soon eat your words. |
I find that remark offensive.
If I injure somebody through my negligence, then I expect to be required to pay for it (in most cases I would be insured against such claims of course, so my insurance would actually pay it).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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the bit about "costs of medical services provided by his wife" gives it a slight whiff of something. Like the guy who tried an insurance claim in France, after our very small plastic yacht dragged an anchor and hit his huge, and very ancient and battered, motor boat (I wasn't on the boat, I hasten to add). A photo of the two boats, thoughtfully taken by the person on our boat, put paid to the subsequent claim that he needed an entire new pullpit as a result of the encounter. There was no way. His claim was so absurd that although we were quite ready to accept repairs to scratched gelcoat, etc, our insurers threw the whole thing out and I think he just went away and gave up.
However, the most badly injured person of my immediate acquaintance had her knee smashed when an out of control 8 year old in that racing tuck they like so much, and a helmet, hit her when she was standing on the side of the piste attending to her three year old, who was crying after some mishap. The knee, after three major operations by one of Austria's best guys, will never be the same again. If the lad had hit the 3 year old he could have killed her. Of course parents should control their kids on the slope.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wouldnt insurance cover this sort of thing  I dont get it. I suppose what Im trying to say is insurance is meant to cover you for when other people do stupid stuff that leads to you being injured. At what point does this cross over into the hands of the law?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I remember getting hit by an out of control 5 year old, at Hillend, who was getting a lesson...
Not my fault and the instructor was very apologetic, but i felt so bad about it... like really scared that i had done some serious damage.
My 95kg against an average 5 year old, both travelling at speed and you get the picture.
If only i had my thinking cap on at the time... I could have sued the wee Fitzwilliam 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd just LOVE to know who was the uphill skier but I am far from convinced a 7 year old would set out to hurt another skier and should be sued and I'd generally say adults need to be careful when skiing around children.
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Whether or not the child intended to hurt Grandpa is irrelevant. The damage is the same regardless of intent. If I break your living room window because I threw a rock through it or because I was playing baseball across the street and hit a a ball through it makes no difference. I'm equally liable. And it's a little difficult to imagine how the kid is not the uphill skier here.
There is also no reason to assume that Grandpa’s insurance covers him. This is not like auto insurance, which you are obliged to have if driving.
Again, we have no idea what happened here. I would guess that Grandpa will have a difficult time proving negligence unless he has credible witnesses. Did patrol file a report? That would certainly help his case, although I'm not sure what legal standing that would have.
If someone stumbles out of the mountaintop umbrella bar after six beers and six pear schnapps and proceeds to ram into me at speed, is that person not liable for any damage? If the kid is barrelling out of control, why is that any different?
We don’t know what happened, but maybe we shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions that Grandpa’s diggin’ for gold.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would like to sue the seven year old I see for how damn good they are!
Seriously though, perhaps insurance should be compulsory for anyone using the piste - no insurance no skiing/boarding. So no matter who ends up on the stretcher and no matter who's fault it was both parties are covered.
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| ami in berlin wrote: |
There is also no reason to assume that Grandpa’s insurance covers him. This is not like auto insurance, which you are obliged to have if driving.
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fair point - I was living in my imaginary world again where everybody does what I do 
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| Quote: |
maybe we shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions that Grandpa’s diggin’ for gold.
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Well I, for one, was jumping to no conclusions, just pointing out that some people make greedily inflated insurance claims, and some out of control 8 year olds can cause serious injury to adults. Nobody has any idea what happened in this particular case - we are all just speculating.
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Also, of course, if I hurt my arm skiing and my insurance pays for the medical treatment needed it certainly wouldn't be paying for any "services provided" by my husband.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Also, of course, if I hurt my arm skiing and my insurance pays for the medical treatment needed it certainly wouldn't be paying for any "services provided" by my husband. |
Unless your husband happen to be a doctor or nurse, and the treatment was prescribed by other more credable sources.
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pam w, i thought 'services provided' by spouses was generally free of charge
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Presumably it is a insurance job so who cares?
I have nephews at such age. Their thrill is to ski at high speed beyond their control. They like to charge down the black slopes in a straight lines!
Being short, on short pair of skis, low centre of gravity and light weigh they can't go fast enough if skiing mundanely like their parents.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 21-12-07 16:51; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Who is to say the old geezer wasn't sat chillin' with his pipe in the middle of the piste... 
you get on a slope and you have to accept a degree of risk. My 8 year old daughter was wiped out by a middle-aged bloke flying down the edge of the piste, clipped her skis and sent her flying. Two days later she was wiped to the floor by a woman who then proceeded to abuse her and claimed she shouldn't have been in her way, despite the fact that she was stopped at the edge of the piste with a few of our group, all adults who jumped to her defence. Fortunately both episodes only resulted in a few bruises and dented her confidence a little. Claims like this can only damage skiing as next we'll have health and safety all over our backs, learners will need L plates, speed cameras, licences with points etc etc
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needles ,
I notice you have omitted breathalhzing the culprits. You could lose a lot of votes had that been included.
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You know it makes sense.
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needles, welcome to snowHeads 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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As everyone else has said not really enough info to say who's to blame, but we all have to learn and, at seven, maybe the kid didn't have a lot of experience.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think we know enough about the circumstances here to be certain, the 7 year old could have been a local and a red hot skier, the adult could have been a novice. Who was uphill ? we just don't know but it just doesn't seem "right" IMO
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops, totally
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another article with more details:
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20071220/NEWS/541382740
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Pfahler, 60, of Allentown, Penn., tore a tendon in his shoulder in the collision and is suing for physical therapy expenses, vacation time and other expenses, according to the lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Colorado.
Pfahler has a season pass and skis often, said Jim Chalat, Pfahler’s Denver-based attorney.
“He’s a very strong recreational skier,” Chalat said.
Scott was skiing ahead of his father on the catwalk Golden Bear when he tried to pass Pfahler on the right, Robb Swimm said.
Pfahler was skiing ahead of Scott and turned into him. Scott, the uphill skier, did not have time to react, Robb Swimm said.
Scott said he was sorry and started to ski away when Pfahler grabbed Scott’s legs, cursed at him and said he would sue him, Robb Swimm said.
“I was really scared,” Scott said.
Catwalk crash
Pfahler, who declined comment on his attorney’s advice, works in publishing for Reader’s Digest, Chalat said.
“He wants to get back to work,” Chalat said.
Marlene Ambrogio, Pfahler’s wife, is also named as a plaintiff and is seeking damages for “nursing, medical and other services rendered to Mr. Pfahler,” the lawsuit says. |
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Do you remember 20 years ago when we laughed at the silly Americans with their ridiculous compensation culture?,now we are here defending it......ahhh progress.
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| The_Hirsty wrote: |
I would like to sue the seven year old I see for how damn good they are!
Seriously though, perhaps insurance should be compulsory for anyone using the piste - no insurance no skiing/boarding. So no matter who ends up on the stretcher and no matter who's fault it was both parties are covered. |
I agree. I personally think you should prove you have insurance before being able to purchase a lift pass. I was hit by another skier whilst I was on a poma lift - I could go nowhere - he did come off worse !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| The_Hirsty wrote: |
I would like to sue the seven year old I see for how damn good they are!
Seriously though, perhaps insurance should be compulsory for anyone using the piste - no insurance no skiing/boarding. So no matter who ends up on the stretcher and no matter who's fault it was both parties are covered. |
Not necessarily. For example, if your insurance company considers you were under the influence of alcohol, it could decide not to pay out on a claim made against you.
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I have to say that in the circumstances described above I certainly wouldn't try to sue the 7 year old, it sounds to me like an honest mistake, judging from the description the injured party was travelling relatively slowly and as an experienced skier should have been more aware of his surroundings, perhaps he had headphones in and was unaware of another skier to his side, who knows. But there's a lot of difference between taking someone to court because they were out of control and taking someone to court to try and get a top up of your pension fund
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FAQ
if it happened on a green I would just not be happy 
