 Poster: A snowHead
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As far as I am concerned, skiing the unknown is what it is about.
But at the same time I know that is based on confidence in my technique. And I accept it has to be tempered by realism: being sensible and not taking big risks - though in my dreams I just lean out and ballance on the edge.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowball wrote: |
| though in my dreams I just lean out and ballance on the edge. |
Lucky you. In my dreams I lean out and fall over the edge. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Butterfly, rob@rar, foret is possibly the most dissapointment I've had from looking at a piste map and thinking that looks good. I think we did a maximum of 200m before turning onto another run.
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| Swirly wrote: |
| Butterfly, rob@rar, foret is possibly the most dissapointment I've had from looking at a piste map and thinking that looks good. I think we did a maximum of 200m before turning onto another run. |
...... but what was your skiing ability at the time? "Good" is a very subjective term! As a nervous novice, needing long, easy ground on which to develop more confidence, is it likely to appeal to me?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I just wish all resorts graded their runs the same, as there is so much variability in steepness/difficulty of runs that are essentially classed the same. I have often heard that some of the blue runs in "x resort" are more like red runs in "y resort", and as a novice it does make those first few runs of a new resort a bit scary.
Also how come some runs are blue runs one year and then a few years later they are re-classified to red?
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Butterfly, it is very flat, but not much wider than a road, for just about all of its length so I think it is good for developing confidence. But I think you'll soon progress onto slightly steeper terrain as you will get bored of the foret after you've done it a couple of times.
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plectrum, Maybe just taking the strange hippy drugs at the time would be sufficient 
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Butterfly, it was the first time I'd been on a board in over 6 years. As rob@rar says anywhere else it would be a green, I'm sure there are plenty of other runs in the vicinity that you would find more suitable i.e. they go downhill rather than traversing the mountain.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fizz, The problem is mainly one of marketing.
Every resort feels they must have some runs at each grading, so the easiest runs in the resort will be blue (or Green in France/Spain/North America) regardless of how difficult those "easiest" runs are, while the hardest runs will be black, again regardless of how easy the run actually is.
And then many resorts will have a "target audience" which are the main type(s) of rider they want to attract, and will tend to grade more runs at the level expected to atttract that type of rider than might otherwise be the case.
Runs tend to get teir grading changed either when new runs are introduced which can take over the mantle of easiest or hardetst, or when too many people are getting injured because a run is harder than would have ben expected from the grade.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
fizz, The problem is mainly one of marketing.
Every resort feels they must have some runs at each grading, so the easiest runs in the resort will be blue (or Green in France/Spain/North America) regardless of how difficult those "easiest" runs are, while the hardest runs will be black, again regardless of how easy the run actually is.
And then many resorts will have a "target audience" which are the main type(s) of rider they want to attract, and will tend to grade more runs at the level expected to atttract that type of rider than might otherwise be the case.
Runs tend to get teir grading changed either when new runs are introduced which can take over the mantle of easiest or hardetst, or when too many people are getting injured because a run is harder than would have ben expected from the grade. |
Agreed. In the Milky Way there are a lot of Blacks, which are just difficult reds (IMHO). This is just so the area can advertise it has some blacks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This is interesting - In Switzerland I'm looking to ski Blues, however, when I'm in France do they have 4 grades of run, green, blue, red and black or is the green a direct replacement for a blue and therefore they still only have a 3 colour grading system? i.e. will I be looking to ski greens when I'm in France?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, In France they have four grades - Green, Blue, Red, Black.
In theory Green and Blue cover what would be blue in Switzerland, but it is likely that the harder blues in France will be slightly harder than those in Switzerland.
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Megamum, I can really relate to your concerns, because it isn't that long ago I learned to ski - my first trip to the mountains was in January 2004. I found the grading system very strange. I was extremely lucky to have Mr Docsquid with me. I would stick to a green run I knew well, while he went up and sussed out other runs for me, and then I'd only go on runs he had already checked. Even the green runs can't be guaranteed not to have a small steeper pitch, but IME most of them are gentle, confidence-building runs.
However beware of greens and blues that are runs back into resort - I've found they can either be more difficult than their grading (only having a red run back into resort doesn't look good), or alternatively extremely flat involving a long distance of poling/skating. Blues and greens higher up tend to be better graded. A run may also be graded blue or red because it is narrow, not steep!
Do you have a friend who can check things out and report honestly to you on their degree of difficulty on a particular day, bearing in mind the snow and light conditions?
ISTR Courchevel had a book that graded runs within the colour bands - so, for example, Dou du Midi is a red that was graded a difficult red because it is quite steep (for a red) and also tends to get bumped up. All the runs were graded as easy, moderate or difficult within the colour banding to which they are assigned. It may be that other such booklets exist for other resorts.
Side-slipping is a skill you must master - it is enormously helpful, not just for beginners - I side-slipped a stretch of a horrible icy black with rocks poking out of it last year, as I couldn't guarantee not damaging my skis on the rocks while making conventional turns. Gets you out of all sorts of things.
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, you'll be fine in Val Thorens. As I've said before we learnt to ski there and there's lots of nice easy greens/blues for you to progress on. I seem to remember in particular one nice green nearish to the beginner's area - you'll be whizzing along that before you know it! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I failed miserably in Tignes when my friend took me down an easy blue which ended up being the Leisse, I got to the orange barriers, fell, couldn't get up, took skies off, then "lost it" and wouldn't put them back on again, I made her carry them while I went down on my bum  everyone said I should have kept the skies on and side slipped, but the nerves took over, the next day, I could totally relate to what I had been told, when I saw others in a similar situation, trying to walk and getting themselves in more trouble. When I go back in April, I am going to have a lesson on the first day and hopefully regain some of my lost confidence and learn how to over-ride my brain when it tells me to panic !!!! I can slide slip and kick turn, but the nerves took over. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd rather not see it, hence I tend to day dream on chair lifts. THen I find im exhilarated by it rather than overly cautious. Also depends if im on a board or on skis- skis I dont care, board i'd like to pick out any flat bits that need avoiding before I get to them and have to unstrap and squuush
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not overly bothered by anything on piste. Happy with a guide/instructor in moderate off-piste scenarios. Don't go exploring off-piste (even when it appears easy) without professional help, but happy to do some stuff I've done before without help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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interestingly on a board it is the reverse, the steeps are normally accepted without too much bother as side slipping is the first thing you learn, so the problem with an 'uknown' piste is more to do with getting caught on the down side of a piste with a cross camber, coming around a bend and seeing the gradient level off or even go up hill. An unknown piste needs to be 'read' quite carefully to spot good 'middle of piste' places to sit and to avoid the need for shushing
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Megamum, be careful who you ask about whether runs are easy or not; I would suggest only asking someone at your own level or slightly below or at the other end of the spectrum ask a ski instructor. Able skiers find it very difficult to remember what was challenging when they were novices and will often very innocently recommend a piste as easy that has a tricky section - not because they are macho but because they genuinely will not have noticed the steep start or whatever of what is for the most part a lovely gentle cruise. I suffered from this on the 1st day of my second ever trip, I must have fallen 8 times as I negotiated a narrow, steep, mogulled section of a hard packed red littered with jittery skiers.
In turn I have found myself guilty of underestimating the difficulty of blues for my own daughter now I am an intermediate skier, - never too seriously but it is amazing how you fail to notice things that struck fear into you as a beginner.
When I find myself outside my comfort zone I find it helpful to keep telling myself that I am on holiday and have all the time in the world to make it down and it doesn't matter how long it takes. To that end another piece of advice would be not to try new and possibly challenging runs when the lifts are about to close!
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An update on the subject of the long blue La Foret in Vallandry (3.5Km from the top of the Vallandry chair):
| Rob@rar wrote: |
| it is very flat, but not much wider than a road, for just about all of its length so I think it is good for developing confidence. But I think you'll soon progress onto slightly steeper terrain as you will get bored of the foret after you've done it a couple of times |
Ok, I have to say it - you were right! It does get a bit tedious as I found the only way of skiing it (for me) was to alternate skiing straight with snowploughs to put the brakes on. I was reluctant to turn much in case of getting in the way of an ankle-biter bullet. In any event, it wasn't really steep enough - eh? is that me saying that??
However in defence of it being a blue not a green, from the beginner point of view I'd say:
- it crosses lots of reds, and though most crossings are fairly flat, one or two aren't and you have to be able to hold your line across them
- there is a steeper section right at the end, just after where the Retour Grizzly branches off which for a beginner with tired legs is a little challenging, as is the 'ramp' down from the Hotel! My instructor wanted us to ski parallel down it, no brakes & I found that nearly impossible to do as it seemed so narrow!
| Hullite wrote: |
In turn I have found myself guilty of underestimating the difficulty of blues for my own daughter now I am an intermediate skier, - never too seriously but it is amazing how you fail to notice things that struck fear into you as a beginner.
When I find myself outside my comfort zone I find it helpful to keep telling myself that I am on holiday and have all the time in the world to make it down and it doesn't matter how long it takes. |
I found this in my friends - they took me off on my first ever "tour" and we came to 2 bits I found really hard. They said they just had not remembered they were there! They were wonderful though, and helped me with the confidence to take my time and get down them, one turn at a time.
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Rob@rar wrote: |
| it is very flat, but not much wider than a road, for just about all of its length so I think it is good for developing confidence. But I think you'll soon progress onto slightly steeper terrain as you will get bored of the foret after you've done it a couple of times |
Ok, I have to say it - you were right! |
Told ya!
| Butterfly wrote: |
| ... my friends - they took me off on my first ever "tour" and we came to 2 bits I found really hard. They said they just had not remembered they were there! They were wonderful though, and helped me with the confidence to take my time and get down them, one turn at a time. |
That's something you are going to have to get used to, and develop strategies for coping with (which you seemed to do admirably in this trip). We ski on natural terrain which, although occasionally re-profiled to a certain extent, is going to have some steeper sections on otherwise gentle terrain. Strategies might include side-slipping; taking the best line down the section to avoid the worst bits; having a really good 'banker' turn that you know will work in all situations, etc, (incidentally, it really shouldn't include taking skis off and walking as that's potentially the least safe way of getting down). As you improve you will expand the range of terrain that you can get down under control, and more of the mountain opens up for you. But you will have to expect that many runs are going to throw the odd steep section at you. It's just part of the game.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think skiing the unknown is a matter of growing up in skiing.
As one skis more one will be able to tackle different slopes. People who ski off piste wouldn't bother too much with a groomed black, a red, a blue or a green run.
Once a skiers/boarders done black runs in a few countries the grading of the slopes should no longer matter. That should be a stage a normal person should be able to reach in about 5 to 6 years. Younger teenagers may be able to ski black runs in their first skiing trip but graduating one colour per year should be reasonably relax for an average person going skiing annually, say spending at least one week per trip.
It helps to ski different resorts and in different countries to expose oneself to the variations in slope gradings.
Many black slopes are too steep to be groomed. The steepest groomed piste in Austria, called Karakiri in Mayrhofen, can be a good reference as it needs to be winched to carry out the grooming. If one manages it then there is little fear of unknown on groomed piste. Off piste and ungroomed black can be steeper though.
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