 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What's a turn?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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plectrum,
Not my strong point...so I have to jump it.
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JT, i'm more of a jump turn man myself aswell. my cruciates would not enjoy that kick turn.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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plectrum, your skis should be perpendicular (at right angles) to the slope, oh and from memory you always turn the downhill ski first, it's a vey useful technique to get you out of awkward situations, but I understand that few places teach it now as it carries a risk of injury for those people who are not very flexible
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| Quote: |
from memory you always turn the downhill ski first
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definitely advisable.... 
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Whilst I think about it the photos do not show a very good technique, I was always taught to go for a nice smooth action, especially as any sudden loss of grip on a steep slope could have very unplesant consequences, if you are confident however this technique will let even a relative beginner get down the steepest of pistes, I actually can manage it on the end of the Lauberhorn run which is arround 37 degrees, good edges are however essential when using this turn on an icy surface 
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pam w, you'd be amazed at how many people always do one side first rather than the downhill leg, watching someone trying to do the uphill leg first is usually a great source of entertainment, provided that when they inevitably fall over they don't slide to an unplesant end
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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abc, Absolutely agree - such a useful technique, but nasty on ice. I too learned on long skis (relative to my own pixie height) but my shorter skis and their bindings are heavier, so it seems more effort to lift the ski. Maybe it's just my age... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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plectrum, it'll be a lot more obvious why they're called kick turns when you try doing them with a free-heel . And there are significant and important differences when doing them uphill. Enjoy! (well you'd better do so, as you're going to be getting enough of them)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is it something worth trying?
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Megamum, No ... I find them difficult enough standing on flat ground ..... I doubt if many here other those who are young and fit or expert / instructor status use them.
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You know it makes sense.
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Maybe it is worth learning how to do, Megamum, as something useful you know you have in your repertoire - for getting out of a tight corner rather than as an everyday manoeuvre. I last used kick turns two seasons ago when I ran out of stamina off-piste on breakable crust and resorted to a traverse, kick turn, traverse, kick turn descent. Helped me out of a problem. Easier to practise on a slope than on flat ground
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, I learnt long ago that you should never dismiss a technique just because you will hardly ever use it, however it's not really easy to learn, it's easy enough to learn it on the flat but you need to practise it on a fairly decent slope to get the hang of it, oh and finding someone to teach it to you may take some time, as I said earlier it's not common to be taught it now due to the risk of pulling all sorts of muscles etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, there is absolutely nothing more useful when you bottle out of doing that first turn on the start of a steep run, and you're fresh out of traversing options! Seriously, it can be extremely useful.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, You noticed  I'll do a couple tomorrow just for you ( fiver says I end up on my back bottom)...
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Agenterre, I was referring to myself, not to you! I'm ancient, but can do kick turns.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Agenterre, As Shakespeare said, oh reason not the need...but yes, I have used one during the last two seasons. (Tunnel at Ad'H )
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Okay thanks for the explosion on responses but ... how many people practice them in the lounge! The diagram above is lazy and rubbish! parallel baby or nothing at all!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Is it something worth trying? |
It is a technique to be used in very steep descents where the couloir (corridor) is to narrow and too steep to try a normal ski turn. It is also used as GrahamN pointed out on skin based ski ascents. It looks very cool and is easier if you have good hip mobility. Basically it is wherever you want to turn on a dime.
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why would you need to practice them....lol they are easy
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Great for turning on the spot if you've skied to your group and are facing the wrong way. Just make sure no one's in the arc which the ski is going to travel through, could be quite painful (especially if you've just had your edges done)...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Used one today. Having learnt to do it in the days I skied on 203cms it is a doddle on 178cms. Very useful technique, but best done smoothly and quickly.
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I'd agree that it's a useful technique to have in your bag, although probably limited in scope if most of your time is spent on piste. You'll probably find that a bracquage turn is more useful on piste as both skis are on the snow so there's much less chance of doing the splits or dislocating your hip. I was shown how to do kick turns by a guide and it's save my a*se on more than one occasion. The trickiest part is the transition between pics 3 and 4 because it has to be one fluid movement so that when you plant the lower leg you have to swing the upper leg round at the same time otherwise it all goes horribly wrong.
BTW I can't believe nobody has mentioned the crimes against ski fashion the guy is guilty of
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I had an instructor a few years ago who did quite a bit of this, turning to face the class, or to face away and ski off demonstrating something. It reminded me of the usefulness of the turn (he didnt teach it to us though, I learnt it in Norway in the days when beginners had skis as high as you could stretch your arms above your head). I practise it at moments when I'm waiting for someone, at the side of the piste. But it's not so easy as I remember it being; the skis are maybe heavier, and my hip mobility, though good for my age, is definitely not what it was. But I am a little scared to use it on anything really tricky - I tend to try to sideslip if possible - that's another thing to practice when hanging around.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A penny just dropped. I was eating my grapefruit, mentally doing a kick turn and thinking about starting with the uphill leg. I had originally envisaged someone trying to turn downhill, but starting with the uphill leg. That would definitely end in tears. But then I realised that you could start with the uphill leg if you were turning towards the hill. That would work? Difficult on a steep slope, though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, Yah i think this is what is done on ascents in touring.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You have to be careful turning uphill as you are going to be bearing your whole weight on an uphill ski that is liable to be angled the wrong way to give you a good platform. Also, if things go wrong and you start sliding you are goingbackwards whereas turning downhill you would at least be going forwards (as indeed is likely to happen to the gent in the photos!)
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tried it a few times, didn't agree with me, so quite happy to turn on the spot with a small jump turn or a snow plough. Never thought, 'a kick turn would have been useful here'.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Normally do one or two each week, in circumstances described by skisimon. Those could mostly though be replaced by braquage turns, at the expense of losing a little height. Had one spot (non-touring) last year when it was pretty much the only possible turn though - we'd traversed, slightly uphill, to the entry to a couloir, but then needed to be facing the other way around to actually climb into it. Jump or braquage would have resulted in way too much drop down the 35 degree-plus slope, on the wrong side of the top of the ridge.
BGA, with a little practice I think just about everybody should be able to stand in the sort of "plieé" position between pics 3 and 4. I'm pretty inflexible, and before learning how to do a kick turn I wa petrified I'd get stuck or overbalance at that point. It was a purely psychological problem and it's perfectly possible to hold that position. On tricky ground, I'd actually prefer to be able to hold that if necessary and be sure my lower ski is well seated before moving the upper ski than have to do it all in a single movement and have to trust that the new lower ski position will hold.
pam w, plectrum, yes uphill turns are done a lot in touring, but having a free heel makes it more practical and much less dangerous when bringing the second ski around, as the ski tip can hinge up towards your knee/groin and so not stick into the snowface (just be careful where it might stick in though )
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I did one just last week, on flat ground, as I just needed to quickly turn round to help someone. Didn't think twice about doing it as its a technique I was taught about 25 years ago, though half way round I did feel a slight wobble and was reminded by this that I'm not so agile and flexible anymore. 
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For those not familiar, it might be worth pointing out that uphill kicks require a nifty little flick to get the ski round, especially if it's steep - otherwise you catch the ski on the slope in front of you before it's got all the way round. I've toured with a guy who never quite got it right and it was horrible to behold. In the end he just did a normal 'downhill' kick turn and sidestepped back up to where he wanted to be...
I agree with one of the earlier posts that 'normal' turns are at their most useful when coming down horrible crusty stuff which is just about unskiable, expecially at the end of a long day. I wouldn't wnat to go a long way off piste unless I could do one pretty much on demand.
Even on piste, novice skiers would find them handy for those occasions when their equally novice piste map reading leads them onto a steeper slope than they would like. 'Traverse and kick' is much safer than 'skis off and walk'.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pendodave, Notes the possibility of catching the ski tip if its steep - surely it must also be difficult to clear the ski tail if the slope is steep behind the skier too?
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FAQ
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Just letting you choose your own 'category'. 
