 Poster: A snowHead
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tryingtoski, what gear are you on now?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I usually get rentals around 163cm. The last were new Volkl's which were good, but at the end of the day, on man made snow, my legs were weak and painful turning. (after about 6 hours of skiing)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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is it just wishful thinking that I may get any better.
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tryingtoski, welcome to Snowheads. I'm much older than you, and I'm getting better. However, I put that down mainly to having had lots of good tuition, rather than choice of gear. Unlike some people who post on this forum I have an open mind about gear - my ski locker includes some ancient (and knackered) Salamon "snowblades", some of the much more recent (and entirely different) "short skis", a snowboard and some regular skis. You can have fun on any of them, though my personal opinion is that skiboards/blades are MUCH harder on the legs, particularly the knees, than longer/heavier skis. The easiest of all are probably the 120cm short skis (a number of manufacturers make these, and they are suitable even for quite heavy people - to compare them to kids skis because they're the same length makes no sense).
My current "everyday" skis are 162cms - Rossignol Attraxion V - and I do enjoy those much more than the short skis, they're more stable and responsive. But I ski a lot, so my legs are used to it. How heavy are you? Apart from the length of the skis, which might be too long if you're a beginner or not very heavy, 6 hours skiing is quite a lot if you are not very fit/not very accustomed to skiing. Most of my friends in their 50s, who just ski a week or so each year, often pack up after 3 or 4 hours, so you're not doing too badly.
You don't say whether you've been taking lessons. For older skiers, especially, I think continuing with good quality tuition and practising the exercises you're given is the real key to improving, particularly to being able to cope happily when conditions (snow, visibility, etc) are less than ideal. But if you've not tried them, you might find the short skis worth trying (Atomic make some, as do others). I wouldn't recommend snowblades/boards from the point of view of making things easier on the legs.
If you turn up to a ski lesson on short skis the instructor might not be too impressed, though! 
One other thought - do you have your own boots? Comfortable, but well fitting, ski boots are pretty essential. Your legs can get tired if your boots are a bit sloppy (this was happening to me recently, but I've just got new boots  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sharon1953, errrr? Perhaps I can't read? Looks to me like he wants something more stable than a pair of Big Easys? I could be wrong. My answer certainly isn't. More stable than Big Easy = Skis.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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*goes hunting for rosin for the next round of the violin/fiddle debate*
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Mitchell, the summits are excellent, get some
tryingtoski, as good as the summits are, from what you have written above i feel the atomics would be better for you. they have a short ski feel which i think you would adapt to more than skiboards/summits
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Thanks for you response guys. I think I am leaning toward the Atomics. I find that when I get tired, turning is the main problem. I think the shorter Atomics may do the trick, and may make the tougher slopes less challenging. Although I would like to give the Summits a try.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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tryingtoski, you can usually hire ski boards without any problem, to give them a try. Just remember you MUST keep them on their edges, or they'll shake around all over the place. They're carving machines.
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parlor, but in the skiboard, skiblade, snowblade range, not a full length ski !DaveC, you need to research the technical spec, surely you aren't implying that kids skis are the same as Skiboards, just because they measure the same from tip to tail...or are you? That makes a nonsense of just about everything to do with skis...”how tall are you sir...right... well we have just the pair for you..in fact these are the only skis for your height/age...” 
tryingtoski, I agree with the others on here, go for the Atomic 120's or 123's, can't comment on the Salomon's in that length, but my husband swears by his Atomic 120's, he's 57, got two bad knees, one almost ready for replacement, and he couldn't ski for as long as he does, if he went back to the longer length he used to ski in. On our last holiday 3 other people in our group, (all been skiing for 12 years, but started late in life) bought their hired 120's they loved them so much.
Core stability, fitness and good fitting boots all help - couldn't agree more!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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tryingtoski, it sounds like you're twisting the skis on snow to turn. This is one way to turn, to be sure, but also the most muscle-intensive.
Buying skis that emphasize ski twisting over all other methods of turning is a bit of a dead end.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| DaveC, you need to research the technical spec, surely you aren't implying that kids skis are the same as Skiboards, just because they measure the same from tip to tail...or are you? |
The differences are miniscule. Take a children's ski, increase the stiffness, make the waist fatter, give it less camber and turn the tail slightly up -> "skiboard".
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”how tall are you sir...right... well we have just the pair for you..in fact these are the only skis for your height/age...” :roll:
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All that is, in fact, nonsense. What kind of turns do you want to make? The answer is anything from 120cm to 200cm depending on the answer.
The formula you recite is only valid for a ski that does a combination of mid-to-longish high-edged turns at moderate speed and mid-length rotary turns at slow to moderate speed.
The sad part is that most people regard that combination as precisely what is proper in a ski.
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Buying skis that emphasize ski twisting over all other methods of turning is a bit of a dead end.
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I hesitate to take issue with an expert, but in my experience snowblades favour carving over all other methods of turning (I've spent time with a very good instructor who put us all on snowblades one day, precisely to get us doing punchy short "short leg/long leg" carved turns). If they're not on their edges, they wobble around,though the're also good, used flat, to learn 360 turns). That charge could better be brought against short skis, though there's absolutely nothing to stop you carving turns on Atomic 120 style skis (which are nothing like snowblades, there's a bit of confusion creeping in here).
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, notice I didn't make a blanket statement as to -which- subset of the ski design world is best for learning to carve. I've made the very point you do elsewhere on this forum, even years ago. I think that a park and pipe ski would require even *less* muscular effort per skidded "turn" than a highly edged snowblade. It would be an even worse dead end.
For my own part, I still think a -slightly- longer ski than most skiboard lengths is better for learning high-edged-turns, because it will allow progressive engagement from tip to tail instead of bang on/ bang off in a fully centered, center-pressure posture.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex,
complex wrote:
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All that is, in fact, nonsense. What kind of turns do you want to make? The answer is anything from 120cm to 200cm depending on the answer.
The formula you recite is only valid for a ski that does a combination of mid-to-longish high-edged turns at moderate speed and mid-length rotary turns at slow to moderate speed.
The sad part is that most people regard that combination as precisely what is proper in a ski.
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Oh dear, I think you missed the sarcasm in my ski selection process !
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Poster: A snowHead
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sharon1953, it's possible  but would the poster new to the forum catch it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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comprex, Childrens skis (even with your modifications) are not designed for a centered stance, or laying over the carves, they don't have an asymmetric width profile, and the tip/waist/tail width ratio is very different to a child's ski...other than that, the dampening, and the contruction for use on rails, children's skis are about as similar as a Nordic skis. Skiboards are far more like small snowboards! If you're interested in challenging your belief system, there was a very interesting debate on what makes the difference between a short ski and Skiboard on:
https://www.skiboards.com/messageboard/printthread.php?t=1644
Go on...I dare you 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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comprex, lol, oh no, please no nannny state on here...I just couldn't take it...where's that glass of wine....ahhhh that's better 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
| comprex, Childrens skis (even with your modifications) are not designed for a centered stance, |
Sure they are, if you put a honking great adult foot on one, they have no choice but to be center-stanced.
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or laying over the carves,
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You should see some of our junior racers.
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they don't have an asymmetric width profile,
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Nor do all skiboards. That's an a-la-carte feature that can be put in any ski, look at Fischer's Radarc series and the Atomic 9'11 carvers.
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and the tip/waist/tail width ratio is very different to a child's ski...
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Sure, most skiboards are made fatter to smooth out lateral wobbles because it will be run with flatter edges on average than children's skis.
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other than that, the dampening, and the contruction for use on rails, children's skis are about as similar as a Nordic skis. |
None of those features apply to -all- "skiboards". They might apply to a majority now, but every feature is a-la-carte to any ski whether marketing calls them skiboards or super-short-park&pipe-skis or fat-centered-sidecut-short-skis. In fact -every- one of those features has been used singly or in combination long since the marketing term "skiboards" was invented.
PS I have had a presence on the skiboards forum since their inception :), see if you can find my sock puppets.
PPS Nordic ski construction today is what alpine ski construction was 20 years ago, the only original research in Nordic skiing is on racing ski topsheet arrangements and grip wax. As telerod15 said on another forum "Old alpine ski tech never dies, it just goes nordic". So the argument that 'childrens's skis have more in common with Nordic skis' is really grasping the wrong end of the stick. What it really reduces to is that ski designers can use more tricks out of their tool kit -because- they don't have to support and stabilize adult weights and adult feet on miniscule ski lengths.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex,
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What it really reduces to is that ski designers can use more tricks out of their tool kit -because- they don't have to support and stabilize adult weights and adult feet on miniscule ski lengths.
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Nail on the head, Skiboard designers think outside of the box! Necessity being the mother of invention, and that’s why Skiboards feel so good and so different, and why so many bored skiers looking for a new challenge use them...I rest my case!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sharon1953 wrote: |
comprex,
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What it really reduces to is that ski designers can use more tricks out of their tool kit -because- they don't have to support and stabilize adult weights and adult feet on miniscule ski lengths.
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Nail on the head, Skiboard designers think outside of the box! Necessity being the mother of invention, and that’s why Skiboards feel so good and so different, and why so many bored skiers looking for a new challenge use them...I rest my case! |
Wow, that was an amazing dishcloth-out-from-under-the-glasses conclusion... I'm not sure if I missed the sarcasm or you're a fanatic 
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Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 26-02-09 22:35; edited 3 times in total
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does anyone know where i can buy a good pair of skiblades? i have rented some, but i cant find them anywhere to buy (preferably with ski bindings)
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FAQ
Mitch could try any number of downhill modes, (including skis or Snowbikes for that matter) but he's asking about the performance merits of Summit 110's, what's the problem? 
