 Poster: A snowHead
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Reading a few threads about self-testing and injury prevention got me to thinking about binding settings. Now I've never really considered this before and relied on the hire shop to get it right and up to now never had any serious knee problems (kiss of death I'm sure).
So what shoud I expect them to be set to? I'm 1.7m tall and 76kg (could do with losing a few kgs tho'  ) I don't think I'm a particularly aggressive skier but do like to go quickly sticking to groomed runs with the occasional foray off to the side of the piste or in to a mogul field.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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halfhand,
I'd guess around 6.5 and if you pre-release then go up in DINs of 1.
That is a starter, pre-releasing on piste isn't so much a problem, but speed, hitting things hard, like turns etc...all need to be taken into consideration.
I test my knee out of a binding to get a sense of the forces involved and fast-ish 80kgs skier should start around 7.5 and then adjust up as applicable...IMV
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I'd guess around 6.5
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that's the problem, it is a guess, you need the height weight, age, ability and boot sole length to get an accurate setting off the chart, if you want to be really accurate then you need to put the binding into a testing rig and electronically test the springs for the data entered...... and tha tis just to see if they fall withing norms
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CEM,
Sure, a bit of experience gave me that figure....
And I doubt it would be far off even with all your info.....
I would think that it is an idea to be abit more concerned with what DINs the shop are setting you... they can be wrong as well... bindings could need a service, all sorts...and then there is your own preference. As always here, nothing is gospel, build up your own set of cirteria
Hence I'll have a feel with what forces I think is right and self test them.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, I appreciate the finer points but I thought it might be worth getting an idea of what to look for when I pick up my hire skis. For the record along with height and weight gven I'm 46yrs, I would opine that I'm competent on all groomed runs and my boot sole length is 312mm.
JT, what is pre-release? With my skis flat on the ground I am often able to simply twist my foot and the bindings pop open.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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they recommended a lower setting due to factors of age 50+, total inexperience & v cautious approach
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NewSkier, those factors are included in the chart
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| Yoda wrote: |
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they recommended a lower setting due to factors of age 50+, total inexperience & v cautious approach
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NewSkier, those factors are included in the chart |
So it's rather puzzling that the 1st place (Cas) come up with such a high setting for my very 1st ever lesson. The guy said he had reduced it "a bit" as I was a beginner. I also remember having to get someone else to tread on the release lever as I wasn't able to get it to pop when I wanted to get them off!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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NewSkier, weight, height, boot sole length, then everything else.
Conversely, a common problem here is rental bindings that release upon impact (usually by another person on-slope) then need to have the forward pressure reset before the skier can resume to the bottom. I've lost count of how many times I've done this and sent them back to the hire shop to have it reset properly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, so are you saying that if your skis come off when you fall, or get taken out, that you have to get them reset before you can use them again? Mine have never ever come off when I have fallen, so it's something I have not yet encountered.
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halfhand,
That is what I do..and the higher the DIN, the higher the forces needed to twist out. Your knees/quads will need to be good shape to start doing it beyond 6 so be careful when doing this. Know what to expect...
A pre-release is when you come out of the binding before you want to...causing you to fall before you would otherwise have done.
Of course, the advice of leave it to the experts in the shop is ...err... good, upto a point, until you don't get an expert for whatever reason. I am a bit surprised that you don't know what DIN's you use and your question from that POV is good because an 'expert' could have set it at anything and you'd be none the wiser until it may be too late.
I can see why poeple don't like to see absolutes in print when there are many variables.....no problem with that, but I think you will now go to the shops and be a bit more 'interested' in the kit they give you.
If you have skied a bit, then my 'pointer' will not be a million miles away....but when they look at your boot, and ask for your weight, then ask you how long you have skied, maybe then you can ask them why....out of interest, but I'll wager this might be a bit lost on them.....!!!..so ask carefully..!!!
Anyway, all good built-up knowledge, and then you can maybe see what force is required for the bindings to release and decide if you like them tight or loose.
I take the point that this sort of thing isn't best served on a forum, but if you have more idea of what suits you then that is a good thing.
Personally, I think the more responsiblility and the more aware we are, the better... If an expert tells me something and it makes sense, and there is sound reasoning behind, then fine... but they are not infallible...and neither is the advice here, and as I said, I don't mind the caveats above. The best thing to come out of this, is that there are views and you will likely bone up on this particular area which is a good thing, IMV.
FWIW, I'll know what sort of conditions to expect up there..... and start with a low 7.5 .... I'll make sure that each boot ejects on each new set of binding DINs and as I progress, I'll get upto 8.5-9, maybe more if the snow is heavy and depending on the make of binding, possibly. The DIN is very important to me because a pre-release in certain situations can be more of a problem...
I am 6'2, 85kgs in kit and I have skied for over 20 years.
You have a few choices..blithely accept what someone gives you come what may...and I don't think I'll doing that ... or have a bit of an idea yourself and build up a degree of knowledge.
Oh, and you can come back and tell us what DIN you end with......
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You know it makes sense.
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NewSkier, not as a general rule, no. My story was intended as a counterpoint to your difficult step-out scenario; the skiers I stopped to help could not click back into their bindings as the heelpiece had moved back along the demo track.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The bit I don't get is the "over 50" thing, where the din setting is reduced by one. Now if you're a big, beefy bloke, coming down from 9 to 8, then it isn't that much, percentage wise. However, if you're a lightly built woman, going from 4.5 to 3.5 is quite a drop. Although I have no idea how the scaling works, mathematically  . Anyone?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| maggi wrote: |
| However, if you're a lightly built woman, going from 4.5 to 3.5 is quite a drop. |
Not at all. Using that example, 4.5 indicated going down to 3.5 indicated means:
for small feet 37Nm (twist)-> 31Nm (twist) or only a 16% change, 141-> 120Nm lean or 17.5 % change
for medium/large female feet 43Nm (twist)-> 37Nm (twist) or only a 14% change, 165->141Nm lean or 14.5 % change
for, Oh, Susanna of the 49er song 50->43 Nm or only a 14% change, 194->165Nm lean or 15% change.
<shrug> People lose muscle fibers every year they are alive and nothing can be done about it. Pretty basic step correction to approximate a probably curved physiological need.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, Thanks for the tips. I'll confess many of the technical aspects of ski equipment phase me (there I've said it and sorry if I appear to be a bit of a numpty). Now armed with a little knowledge I'll be more aware in future. Cheers and Merry christmas 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
The DIN is very important to me because a pre-release in certain situations can be more of a problem...
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I often weigh in to threads like this to point out that for every skier for whom a pre-release can be a significant problem, even life threatening, there are many more to whom it would be no more than a minor convenience. On the other hand, skis that take too much force to come off are knee-threatening. I have also made completely unscientific and unproven assertions that there are more people round the slopes with their DINs set too high, than set too low. A pre-release will occasionally be a problem for certain skiers, generally rather good ones with skills and experience way above average. A failure to release is a problem for hundreds of inexperienced, unfit, rather creaky, somewhat overweight, recreational skiers every week. People "in doubt" about their required DIN settings are much more likely to fall into the latter group and in the absence of a proper technician with the time and training to do it properly, the only safe advice is to set the bindings low, potter around on the piste, and crank them up a bit if they keep coming off. I, like newskier, have found shops giving different advice and it makes sense for us to try to understand a bit about it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There's too much focus on WHAT the binding is set at, IMV.
I've been on the receiving end of a ski which the binding (toe height adjustment) was not set properly. As a result, it did not come off when it should. It doesn't matter what numeric value the binding is set at, if the forward pressure (and toe height, in the old days) were not set correctly, the binding won't come off at the pre-set value.
To halfhand's question. Yes, you should know what it ought to be for you. And if you receive one that's set at a very different value, you ought to ask WHY. I'm of the opinion that if the values is way off, it might be an indication they simply forgot to set the binding AT ALL! Asking, and insisting, they re-check the binding would be a safe precaution for your own benefit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w,
Haven't got a problem with your reasoning....it is all perspective and how it applies to you. I agree that if you don't know what they should be, then too loose a DIN is better mostly, than too tight for most of the reasons you say.
As regards the original question, this highlights something that may be taken for granted a bit too often, so it is good that is has been given an airing.
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I still ski at 6.5 and have never had a pre-release on my own skis... so until I do I will continue sticking to the same binding setting. However... demo'ing a pair of twin tips in the park I did manage to pop both skis on a hard landing (for hard read inept)... and I'd honestly prefer to do this on occasion then to take the risk of injuring my knees in low speed crashes.
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I ski at 5.5, I stay on piste, however I'm not slow or particularly gentle. but I do believe that the better you ski the less chance of pre-release. It's better to improve your technique than to raise your DIN. IMO, stay at the low end of the scale unless you absolutely need to have your skis nailed to your feet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd recommend starting out at +15/0, then adjust over time so you can figure out if you want to end up +/+ or go duck.
Oh, right, skis. I'll get me coat
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Not all bindings are built equal either. no matter what anyone says
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bump,
JT, Back from my foray to Italy. Ski Hire shop set the bindings to 7 after I told them that I'm 75kgs. Didn't have any prblems with pre-releasing and on the one occasion I did fall they popped open and all was well. Admittedly I stuck to the piste with just little forays off to the side. I did however, feel that I was skiing better this trip (was it the skis or was it me? Who can tell) so may be there is something in Masque's, comment above.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sorry there is a lot of bad advice here and "i use x.0 and it works for me" without vital statistics means nothing and shouldnt be a guideline
Use the chart that wbsr, posted above.. Know your height weight boot sole length and be realistic about your ability level. The number is what it is. There may be small discrepencies depending if you are on the fringes of the chart but you can be pretty sure that you will be in the right ball park within +/- 0.5 typically.
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