 Poster: A snowHead
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Just got back from a fabulous week in Meribel Mottaret with the first try of my new boots - Nordica Supercharger Ignitions.
On the plus side, the fit is perfect and they are so comfortable. However, it appears they leak! My feet were cold, and on closer examination the boot lining was soaked - and I'm certain it's not just sweaty feet.
Thing is, because they fit so well (after being tweaked by the boot fitter) I don't want to change them - can they be fixed? Anyone else had this problem? I never have before.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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First on the list of usual suspects: the rubber bit at the overlap at the toe. See if a wide strip of tape across the toe at this point stops the water, and the treatment is the diagnosis.
Otherwise, more sleuthing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Picadilly, What was tweaked? the boot or the bootliner and insole? As I am not certain about this but if the shell aint tweaked then you may be able to swap the shell for a new one and keep all the tweaked stuff. I'm sure CEM or SZK/NZK/LZK will be around soon!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Take 'em back to where you got 'em from. If the store is any good then surely they will sort them for you?
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Odd one this, were having problems with many boots from many manufacturers with this problem this year. Before, almost never, stretched or not. 
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Picadilly, my wife is having similar problems with hers. Got them last season, first trip of the winter two weekends ago and boots leaking. Will be applying tape (will make her look like a proper skier) but still not very good. Boots are Head
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BGA, Head seem to be the main perpetrators.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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it seems that the boot designers want to, and do design boots that ski fantastically well, and fit great....... they just treat the water seals as an afterthought....not difficult to do either, but will they listen
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CEM,Head are having major issues, this year, with boots that have not changed design for a few years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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CEM, And i'm not sure your statement is true, none of the guys i know that design boots would ever be so complacent as to treat something so simple with such disregard. The accountants, might, however reduce costs on certain materials or glues for example.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| comprex wrote: |
First on the list of usual suspects: the rubber bit at the overlap at the toe. See if a wide strip of tape across the toe at this point stops the water, and the treatment is the diagnosis.
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Rubber bit? There is no rubber bit...should there be? Just checked my old boots (Technica) and they don't have a rubber bit either, but the overlap across the top seems to be much tighter and the new ones have a noticeable gap.
| plectrum wrote: |
| Picadilly, What was tweaked? the boot or the bootliner and insole? As I am not certain about this but if the shell aint tweaked then you may be able to swap the shell for a new one and keep all the tweaked stuff. I'm sure CEM or SZK/NZK/LZK will be around soon! |
It was just the shell!
Maybe I'll just have to exchange them 
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Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 26-12-07 19:30; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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The hardware shop in Briancon must know about this too because they have ramped up their price for gaffa tape (or power tape as they sell it)...but it still works....but 8.50 for a roll...man...thieves and blaggards !!! Ski shops would make a bit of extra cash if they stock a cheap plumbres tape...5 eurso and they will fly out the door !...If you can get some black tape that sticks it would be great for my gloves too - SZK...you want to open your own shop ?? I might be interested in investing in it !!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SMALLZOOKEEPER and other bootpeople: ski boots aren't really waterproof, are they?
Certainly not the ones I've got here (3 pairs: mine and both kids). If you submerge them in water up to the ankle then water leaks in.
This seems inevetable with modern boot design.
Also, all feet sweat - some more than others. And exercose makes you sweat even more.
This water has to go somewhere. It presumably goes into the boot liner.
My boots are always wet at the end of every day.
I take the liners out every night and dry them near a radiator. I thought this was routine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The rubber bit is called a toe dam! Designed to stop water getting in on the overlap. THere is one of two things here the shell is to big for your feet and you are having to tighten them to tight which is streching the dam and making it ineffective or the dam is just not working. I had a similar issue wiht boots before the shop refused to change them and about 6 months later they had a specialist rep in from the boot company who changed them as soon as he seen them I would bring them back trust me the insides will get mouldy and smelly with the water
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is sweat and there is water - two very different things.
Yes, I think all my boots in all my time have been slightly damp at the end of the day - damp as in condensation mainly, not sopping wet. I also work on a dry slope with a sprinkler system so I guess I get a bit of moisture in that way, but nothing to write home about and nothing that leaves my feet wet. I don't feel the inner being wet, you just see it between the shell and the inner (I remove my inners pretty much everytime I ski at the end of the day).
However, one year about ten years ago, I had a pair of Nordicas as it happens and boy did they leak. You could tip the water out of the boot at the end of the day whether on snow or on the dry slope. I suffer from cold feet at the best of times (oh I love my boot heaters!) and these were a nightmare. They got sent back but whether it was nordica or the importer themselves, they didn't want to know. I bunged them up with bathroom sealant which made a huge difference. Replaced them the following year though.
So I sympathise as it isn't very pleasant at all if it is really bad. Hope you come across a solution.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonpim, they are supposed to be -snow-proof,
fortunately snow is cohesive and doesn't flow like water or we couldn't ski,
fortunately snow doesn't include a high quantity of free liquid water in it or the slope would be a sheet of ice in the mornings,
fortunately that cohesion teams up with average density significantly lower than water so that there is very low pressure on our boots when the snow is waist deep
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| CEM wrote: |
| it seems that the boot designers want to, and do design boots that ski fantastically well, and fit great....... they just treat the water seals as an afterthought....not difficult to do either, but will they listen |
They better take notice, because if the silicone mastic fix doesn't work and I can't get my Head Raptors to stop leaking like a sieve, I'll be shoving them where the sun doesn't shine and Head can have them back as not fit for the purpose and unmerchantable goods. They fit great, ski even better, all abolutely useless, if your feet are cold and wet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, Get a Nordica next time, same shape, water free! 
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Does anyone make a Goretex membrane liner that will go over the boot liner to keep the dry?
If not you may be right, Nordica might be getting a customer. People have asked me about the Boots I wear, no way would I recommend the Raptors, as they are.
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Spyderman, Nope. Thet're are some gore-tex liners on the market, but they have no support of precision. It's not just Raptor, it's arcross the range, it could be a glue/rubber quality issue. Nothing to do with poor design or designers lack of pride. 
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
I was thinking of a goretex membrane sock that I could slip over the liners inside the shells.
I don't believe it's a liner issue as mine have been changed to comformable foam, both these and the OEM liners get wet. I think it's the lack of shell overlap or any sort of gasket that is the problem. Bad initial design.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, is there water under the boot board?
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| Ordhan wrote: |
| The rubber bit is called a toe dam! Designed to stop water getting in on the overlap. THere is one of two things here the shell is to big for your feet and you are having to tighten them to tight which is streching the dam and making it ineffective or the dam is just not working. I had a similar issue wiht boots before the shop refused to change them and about 6 months later they had a specialist rep in from the boot company who changed them as soon as he seen them I would bring them back trust me the insides will get mouldy and smelly with the water |
The shell isn't too big, in fact the toe clasps are on their 'loosest' settings - they are a perfect fit. I have looked again and there is a distinct gap in the plastic where the two bottom clasps are, which is where the water must be getting in. The lining was absolutely saturated on top of the foot and up the tongue, so it's not just hot feet, I'm used to that.
I don't think the toe dam is working either.
The only solution is to return them, unfortunately. I came back from holiday on Sunday, and they are still not dry between the shell and the lining three days later! They will indeed end up going mouldy if I keep them, I don't expect to have to remove the entire boot lining to dry them after each day's skiing. Nor will I buy boot gloves or tape up a brand new pair of boots which cost nearly £300 and should be waterproof! They are not fit for purpose so I'm entitled to a full refund.
Thanks for all the responses though, it's interesting to read everyone's thoughts 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Spyderman, is there water under the boot board? |
The whole of the forefoot is soaked, you can pour the water out of the shell, after removal of the liners after a days skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Picadilly,
Interesting that your Nordica's are displaying exactly the same faults as my Head's. I came from Lange's, never had a problem ever with wet feet with them. The overlap on the Raptors is just way too short and no Gasket. I also think the Toe Dam is about as much use as a Chocolate Fireguard. How can 2 large boot manufacturers get a fundamental part of the design so wrong?
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Picadilly, have you got photos? best to think about proof just in case they resist and you are looking at county court. Sounds like you bought them in the UK. what's your plan? Remember your claim is against the retailer, not the manufacturer. If you've got some proof you'll win.... technical stuff above notwithstanding the shop will know that if it comes in front of the average county court judge there's no mileage in trying to defend ski-boots that leak, those courts (I have some experience) work primarily by applying sale of goods legislation in a common sense manner, and common sense says.... well it's obvious innit?
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh it should be fine; I only bought them just over two weeks ago and this holiday was the first time I've worn them. I still have the receipt and the box, and I'm a really good customer of the shop. I've bought all my ski stuff from them for years and they've always been very helpful (Filarinskis in Havant, Hampshire). It's just really annoying after finally finding boots that fit so well!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Filarinskis in Havant, Hampshire
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Good luck, I tried to take something back for a refund at that shop once, it's not easy Be prepared for a load of buck passing and b*llsh*t.
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Poster: A snowHead
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gahh I hope not
They don't have a leg to stand on though - I have proof of purchase, the product is faulty and I'll be returning it within 28 days! Anyway I'll report back on how I get on, will try and get down there tomorrow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Picadilly, good news... well done to you and to the shop
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My modifications have been carried out today by CEM, as we have the same boots, I've gone with AltroMastic supplied by myself and CEM is going to go with his Dow Corning. We shall report back firstly, does the fix work and secondly, who's got the best Mastic. The bets are down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, but what is Head's official solution to the lack of gasket on the overlap? Have they changed this for later production runs? The Raptor is an awesome boot, I hope they sort this out!
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This thread is the craziest thing i've ever heard .... it is abit like BMW designing a car which leaks petrol! I'm totally amazed that product testing doesn't involve a skier taking the boots out returnign with the 'yeah they are great apart from the fact i've got a swimming pool in my sole!'
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Spyderman, but what is Head's official solution to the lack of gasket on the overlap? Have they changed this for later production runs? The Raptor is an awesome boot, I hope they sort this out! |
CEM can't get a decent answer out of Head. He has put it to them that the overlap is insufficient and there is no gasket. The Factory sent new replacement Toe Dams, which are identical to the original ones So we just siliconed them in place. Head have sais that any Gasket would put pressure on the top of the foot, but that is rubbish, it's easy to design in a gasket system, Atomic were doing it years ago. So basically the Raptor is unchanged, with no fixes in the pipeline as far as we can gather. I'll just wait and see how long the improvised silicone gasket arrangement lasts. I have an endless supply of top grade silicone, so redoing them is easy, but a bit of a pain.
Like you say they are an awesome boot, sadly spoilt by stupid design faults. If the fix doesn't work, I'll have to find another Boot. I can't carry on with cold wet feet.
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Spyderman, Is that Head or the distributor in the UK? I feel Head(real) wouldn't react this way. Time to move up the food chain perhaps?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Not sure is the answer. I will see how the 'fix' works, then decide whether to take things further.
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