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Who skis in a whiteout?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Over on http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=799712#799712 there is much discussion about the piste marker poles being useful in poor vis and then how a few people fall over in whiteouts as they lose spatial orientation.

I do too. And I get very unwell very quickly. Throwing up takes then edge off of running a nice line of bumps IMHO.

So if the weather is really dense and I can't get below the treeline, i go home or sit it out till it clears a little.

And, frankly, if I'm in a resort that I don't know like the back of my hand in those conditions, I'm not entirely sure it's safe to be out?

Who perseveres? Who goes to the bar for a nice lunch?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The problem is, you don't always know the visibility is really bad up high until the cable car/gondola dump you out into thick white soup! Sad

Or sometimes, the village is in the soup but the piste above is actually in the clear... You'll be missing the whole blue bird day if you stay in the pub in the village...

I prefer NOT to ski in bad visibility but I don't always follow my own advice. Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's a question of degree of course but as long as I can see from one piste marker to the next I'm happy to keep going.
I find it quite exciting actually.

Best is the days when the cloud is patchy and U can do a run in low-vis and suddenly catch a break in the clouds where U look round and see just your tracks behind U.
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I like it as long as it's somewhere i know where im going-ie a run ive skiied before if not its no fun at all..
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Murdoch, I used to. No problems with sickness or disorientation, until I skied into a pile of snow that wasn't there the year before, and dislocated my shoulder Crying or Very sad Now I'm a bit more reserved about it Confused
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Quote:
I skied into a pile of snow that wasn't there the year before,

Puzzled is that a bit like driving round a bend into a bus that wasn't there the year before? I don't voluntarily ski in a whiteout but sometimes the weather just closes in, or you go round the shoulder of a mountain into different weather. Or you have visitors who just want to "go and see what's it's like, we've only got a week". I dislike it. I don't get really sick, but I feel tense and thoroughly disoriented even in places I thought I knew really well.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm not happy skiing my own little 500yd slope in our little resort in bad vis (I've mentioned we had fog this year) let alone somewhere I don't know- that said skiing is not a cheap pursuit and I think I should ski if I possibly can having paid out to get there - I hope on iffy days when I'm away with you all next year that I can tag with a group that know the area.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w, well it was on a piste that I thought I knew so well I could ski it blind! Turned out I was wrong Crying or Very sad That put me out of action for the entire 2005 season, which was Crying or Very sad because it was the best season we've had until 2007 Very Happy
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Mike Lawrie, that sounds like a bad one. Hope this season will be better. The thing is, even if you know the piste, you don't know whether there might be an exhausted snowboarder flaked out in the middle of it. Or someone who has dislocated their shoulder and is lying in agony on the piste. wink I find it very difficult to ski at any speed at all in a whiteout - I am on dead slow/stop, inching my way to the bottom, it's awful. We need a happy medium, maybe!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Whilst I still carry on skiing in whiteout conditions and in the main enjoy it - had a great run in Serre Chevalier last season one of the first down the piste after a foot of new snow, wonderful - I'm a little more reserved than I used to be after I fell off the edge of a cat track in the PDS a few years ago, luckly there was another piste below me and I didn't have to climb back, n ot my most golourious moment. Going back to the orange top on the poles thread, this year again in the PDS trying to see which side the post was on in a whiteout skiied off the piste and into a huge pile of snow and again that was when I thought I was stationary! But I'm a glutton for punishment and I'm sure this season will find me in similar predicaments!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum wrote:
I'm not happy skiing my own little 500yd slope in our little resort in bad vis ...

Is that near bad Gastein? wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I wait far to long for my one trip a year so I will ski in any conditions, if piste is open that is. Cool
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
FenlandSkier, Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
David Murdoch,
Coming from cham I am surprised at you David, apart from skinning up in the middle of the night it is the only way to get fresh lines.
No I think its great almost like flying, it must be the drugs...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
OK, it's not mine, but you know what I mean - its the only slope, bar MK dome!! that I've skied so its 'my' slope, but its flippin' lonely when it's so foggy you can't see 20 yards and the ski schools are on their break so there's very few folks about
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There's always the time when you try to get one last run in before the lifts shut, so you take the longest lift and get as high as you can, and as you come down the lifts are closing behind you. When the weather takes a sudden turn for the worse, the lifts are closed, the last patrol are either just behind you or are nowhere to be seen, and you have maybe 20 minutes of daylight left... so you'd better be able to find a way down. In a group its easier, as the lead person takes it slowly and everyone else follows them, but we usually change the lead person every couple of minutes, as its tiring and stressful to be leading in bad conditions. We also regroup every 200 yards or so, and agree which way we're going. I've walked off mountains in blizzards before on walking trips, so skiing down them in similar conditions doesn't hold many fears, and is easier in many ways.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jbob, seriously, if it's bad enough that I can't tell up from down or stopped from going, I'm vomiting inside my goggles.

Skiing in the middle of the night, by moonlight, however, is an entirely different marmite des poissons and can make for fantastic fresh tracks...and just imagine t he look on the faces on the first cable up seeing you're 3.00 am tracks he he he .
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
In a "proper" whiteout I'd only ski with someone who knew the area very well, if not it's too easy to get lost and not know it till it was too late. Even then, it's not much fun unless you can get at least some time below the treeline.
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Well, it's no bad thing to keep in practice for when one might get really caught out, but have to get back home. But by and large, a hot choc break suits me best when the conditions are really whiteout.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
been in a few, never by choice. once led a group down butcharts access/glenshee, whos instructor had skied off ahead not realing he had left people behind. i had watched him from the cafe, taking the group up the lift, he was struggling and i could see the weather closing in, i told my friend to wait at the cafe till i got back, sure enough when i got to the top of the lift there was 5 people with no instructor. wasnt the easist ski down ever....lol, but when i got back to the cafe i didnt have to say a word to him, the people he left behind went mental with him........lol.
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A true white-out is seriously unpleasant imo and I probably wouldn't even set out given the choice. The problem is when the weather comes in while you're up the mountain and just have to get down somehow. At least us punters have the choice
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Had a serious white out at Nevis last March. Only went up as I was there for the day. Couldn't see a bloody thing, couldn't work out which way was up or down. Eventually walked down out of it.

II went the next day and had perfect conditions rolling eyes
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If the vis is that bad that you are literally getting down going from turn to turn, then I'll decide enough is enough and maybe wait it out in the bar.
I'll generally go up in any weather in the hope that things change and will give it a chance. If not, then know when to ski another day.

Last year, some Yanks came over to Engelberg and they were used to picking their days. They looked at the weather, stayed put and missed a great day and they were miffed. You can be too much a fair weather skier but to be able to see is a pretty good idea.
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The best tip I can give in a whiteout is to head for the steeper runs home.
You'll have a lot fewer people on them, and the snow is not going to be as tracked out, so easier skiing.
In Park City there's a nice black which runs parallel to the main blue/green runs home - it's maybe about 100m to the skier's left, well worth going over there to avoid the crowds.
At Copper Mountain, go as far right as possible. Slightly narrow runs, more trees for definition, and they empty very quickly of tourists when the weather closes in.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Rather the sun was shining, but it's only 'Weather' as long as you stay safe, ski.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
like everyone else has said, prefer bluebird powder days, but take what i get and be happy. during a whiteout you just ski slower then normal, thats all. in fact today i fell over once because i lost sense of up and down in a really flat light spot
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

in fact today i fell over once because i lost sense of up and down in a really flat light spot
that's so easy to do, and what Wear The Fox Hat said makes sense - you can just turn slowly down a steep piste, one turn at a time, and it's a bit easier knowing which way is up. Flattish pistes, especially in churned up fresh snow, are impossible when you can't get any speed up because you can't see where you are going.
Quote:

I'll decide enough is enough and maybe wait it out in the bar.
me too - if I can find it....
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Head for the trees.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I think in the Alps you can get too used to decent conditions to be honest, at least I have over the last couple of years. This led me last December to moan to people when I was skiing on Cairngorm about the poor visibility - "what the hell you on about?" they retorted, looking very puzzled!

Now, I grew up skiing in Scotland and spent some of that time, surprise, surprise, skiing in virtual whiteout conditions and although I never liked it I got used to it. However I do get what I think may be snow blindness in bad whiteout conditions - I find it very impossible to differentiate between the ground and sky and see what can only be described as 'stars' in front of my eyes and also feel quite dizzy and light headed (but some people pay for that affect so who am I to complain Wink ). I think this may be a legacy of skiing, and climbing, in Scotland in extreme conditions without proper eye protection when I was younger so I'd recommend proper eye protection for one thing.

Anyway, in Scotland I always end up following what I can see of the snowfences down which was okay since I knew the runs well and could focus on them rather than the whiteout. I skied in Mammoth, California last February and experienced similar conditions on my first day there. Of course there were no snowfences but luckily the trails I was on were between the trees so I used that to navigate although it was hairy since I didn't know the mountain.

In my experience when skiing in these condition you need to use all of your senses to navigate and stay safe, particularly your ears in case someone is hurtling towards you. Take it slowly and don't tense up because the terrain is difficult to read and you may hit surprise bumps and undulations. As ever don't give in to fear and sit back on your skis and just ski in as controlled and safe a fashion as you are able to. If it really freaks you out don't go up again when you reach the bottom, just head indoors and have a nice warm warm drink and relax, there's always tomorrow and that may well bring sun and blue skies! snowHead


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 20-12-07 12:01; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
White-outs are fun, after you've done them. Not really pleasant when it happens. I had to alert ski patrol last season in stubai cause an elderly british lady wasn't confident enough of skiing down on her own and wanted some help. I guess for the ones who know the piste and know how to ski in crap conditions it's not too bad, but for learners it must be the worst thing ever.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If I'm where there's snow, then I'll ski. I find skiing in bad conditions help my skiing as I have to rely on feeling my way down rather than bombing it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I got caught out in a white-out in Tignes several years ago with my then wife. She lost all sense of balance, coordination and perspective, resulting in feeling distinctly unwell and nervous. Fortunately we were within 50m of a chair so we shuffled over and, possibly rather selfishly, I left her to descend whilst I continued on.

Why?

For the experience - if it ever happened again somewhere well away from a lift or indoor space it might prove a useful experience.

Also, it was quite exciting.

I've been caught out in a few since then and have drawn on the first experience quite usefully.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Good points. It IS good for you, though like other "good for you" things, not much fun at the time. It's worth looking out for lone skiers who might need help (if you can see them, which really isn't the case sometimes, even if they're just a couple of yards away). A young French girl novice was pleading with the lifties at Tignes one day, to be allowed to ride down; the lift was just closing but they were implacable. We told her we were heading down - very slowly - and one of us skied ahead, and one behind, her. We all felt nervous, but it's really horrible being on your own. Your imagination plays tricks; you can "see yourself" skiing over the edge of a cliff you know doesn't exist and the more you strain your eyes to see, the less sense it all makes. When skiing with a companion in those conditions you need a fall back, in case you lose sight of each other. A fall back which doesn't involve knowing where you are...! Or mobile phones or walkie-talkies, I suppose! I'm showing my age.
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I wouldn't deliberately ski in a whiteout, but I'm happy to ski in moderate snow and then of course you can get caught out. In these circumstances, I only ski on slopes that I know very well.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
not that i have any experience of it.

people talk of trees giving better visability and conditions in a whiteout.

But surely the trees have to be pretty densly packed over the piste to give you protection from the whiteout.
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If I was doing a season (I wish!) I probably wouldn't, but when I'm only skiing for a week, I'll go skiing as long as the lifts are open. Actually I quite like whiteouts - there's a quietness in them that's rather special.
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 brian
brian
Guest
Christopher, it's not so much the shelter they give you as the contrast in vision. Rocks and heather have similar beneficial effects wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Christopher, if it's not blowing, they won't provide much shelter/protection, but the trees give better visibility because they give you points of reference, and if you can see them you can get a better idea of the pitch of the run, so if the run is tree-lined, you head over to the side of the run, and ski close enough to the trees to be able to see them.

If it is blowing, they will provide some protection to parts of the piste, even if they aren't really densely packed.

...of course, you can also head into the trees to ski around them, but I prefer to stay on piste if it's whiteout.
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Once got caught in a white out in Aviemore which closed in really fast. I decided the best course of action was a really wide and slow snowplough 'till I got down. The weather cleared as quickly as it closed in and I felt a right pillock standing stock still on the piste in the widest plough you've ever seen going nowhere Embarassed
I'm a definate fair weather skier these days.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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We were in La Rosiere (I am allowed to say that here Puzzled ) a few years ago first weekend of the season. Visibility was so bad due to cloud and heavy snowfall that most people just got back on the chair and came back down again. We only did one run and that we got down by listening for the noises from the lift and skiing it when possible. The whole mountain shutdown shortly afterwards

But the next day was fantastic: cloudless blue sky and endless powder - but the skis took a bit of a battering as there was very little base underneath it all. Took some of the best photos I've ever managed.

But usually a whiteout is only relative as there is normally enough definition to be able to ski if you are confident in the abilities of you and your group. Many years ago we were in Flaine and had to get a mixed group off the mountain in poor conditions and ended up having to coax some less confident skiers down a black run due to a lift closure. It took quite a while, but the more experience skiers decided it was good fun and we went back and skied it properly afterwards.

Christopher wrote:

people talk of trees giving better visability and conditions in a whiteout.

But surely the trees have to be pretty densly packed over the piste to give you protection from the whiteout.


You don't get "protection" from a whiteout, you just need enough visibility to give your eyes something to focus on - a tree, a piste marker, or even just other skiers.
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