 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Wikipedia definition is interesting in a way.
The "whiteout" I've been in wasn't exactly zero visibility. But since there's nothing non-white one can actually see (piste marker beyond visibility limit), it's as bad as zero visibility. Made worse by the fact when I looked down, I couldn't see my skis due to the fresh snow. So every way I turn, I couldn't see a thing! That's when I lost track of whether I was moving or stopped. Had I thrown a snow ball, I doubt I could see where it land either.
It may only technically be a "flat light" situation. But it felt a lot worse than in a blizzard. Had I been below the treeline, it wouldn't have been an issue AT ALL.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Murdoch, useful quote, but Wikipedia is just written by someone who felt like writing it. To me, it's pretty incomplete. For example, the worst "whiteouts" I've been in, with almost zero visibility, have not been associated with any snowfall at all - just extremely thick fog. In fact, that's probably the most frequent cause of poor visibility. It's not necessarily associated with blizzards - a blizzard has wind, and generally in those very foggy conditions there isn't any wind. It is often the arrival of a breeze which sees off the fog, in fact. Snowheads could write a much better wikipedia entry than that. snojito's definitions are a good start, though you need to define visibility. There are clearly defined parameters for different kinds of poor visibility in marine terms - can't remember off the top of my head what they are, though.
It is perfectly possible to have "flat light" without a "whiteout" but to talk of having a "whiteout" without "flatlight" is meaningless because the snow looks the same as the sky, and the sky looks the same as the mountain, and there are no points of reference. The best person to have around in such a situation would definitely be a blind skier, because they would have become skilled in using other means of navigating, and would not be paralysed with nerves like most of us.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The thing you learn in whiteouts (on a snowboard) is that you can be moving without realising it.
The other thing you learn is that while you may be able to follow others' silhouettes, you can't necessarily see the edge of the piste (white vs white).
So, I've gone off the edge of a piste in a whiteout. A nice, gently curving cruiser with a 4 foot dip to deepish snow on one side. No cliffs or rocks anywhere, so not too worrying - but one should still worry. This is because performing an unexpected somersault, to land with one end of the board digging in the snow like an anchor and bungeeing from one's ankle ligaments/tendons until they snap ain't too good for that ankle's stability in the following two years. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, what was interesting is that I could traverse against a steep slope because I was using a sense of touch, feeling the snow against my the back of my legs and hands which gave me a sensation to rely upon, on the flat I was toast 
I am sure blind skiers similarly rely on such other senses, and having seen them fall they are a lot more relaxed and look upon it as part of the fun, so yes maybe you are right.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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crosbie, that sounds utterly horrendous, and a cautionary tale for all of us. Hope you're back to full power again.
My experience is more or less exactly the same as rayscoops. On a snowboard it was the flat (or nearly flat, or, as it turned out, uphill) areas that were the most disorientating. On the steep stuff, though, I'd definitely still want to know the piste very well (well enough to know it didn't disappear somewhere in the whiteness)
pam w,
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| Snowheads could write a much better wikipedia entry than that |
that's exactly what I was thinking! (and thank you ) Like you, I'm also surprised there don't seem to be the kind of visibility parameters for snowsports that you mention for mariners. Or are there? Where's an instructor when you need one!?
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I quite like white-outs as this was all I had for the first 2 weeks I ever went skiing, so I didn't know blue sky skiing.
I don't go fast just savour the quietness and stick to easy runs not far from the resort. It may sound strange but sometimes I've found it 'womb-like' as you are wrapped in this blanket of whiteness. I hope that doesn't make me sound odd!
Once in Meribel I could just about make out a little figure on the piste above Altiport. It turned out to be the last child in a ski school crocoldile line. I tagged onto the end and joined in when they made then 'whoo whoo' train noises! Very enjoyable!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snojito, up hill falls in a white-out are by far the most embarrising as they generally manifest themselves as riding switch but looking up the hill rather than down the hill in the direction you should or are perceived to be going, even though you think you are going down hill you are really in snowboard terms anyway going up hill, which you not, you are really going down hill, backwards, I think
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rayscoops, maybe it's because I'm feverish, but I had a bit of bother figuring that one out... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Winterhighland, it's a good lift - had a bit of fun in Sentinel bowl in March
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| It may only technically be a "flat light" situation. But it felt a lot worse than in a blizzard. Had I been below the treeline, it wouldn't have been an issue AT ALL. |
That doesn't sound like what I call a "flat light" situation. If it's flat light, it's just as flat between the trees, or next door to the cafe or lift, as anywhere else - you can't see any detail on the surface of the snow, though other features are OK. What is described there, not knowing which way is what, sounds like bad visibility, which is very disorientating and saps confidence. Trees can help a lot, but in the sort of extreme white out that some posts above describe, trees are no use, because you can't see them until you bump into them! Skiing with other people is very difficult, too, because unless you're holding hands you lose sight of each other. In very poor visibility it helps to have someone to follow - but only if they are not going to lead you over a cliff! My friend was following me in a situation like that, and fortunately heard me shriek as I disappeared off the edge of the track, and stopped. AFter clambering back up, I made her go in front for a bit. That's why it's so good to be able to follow someone like a ski instructor, who can do the mountain blindfold.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well, I was following the Wikipedia definition of flat vs white, which the forum had just declare not as accurate as our own.
So, it was a whiteout, as we snowheads know it.
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FAQ
