 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They are in the snow, not at any particular angle.
They tend to be different colours (representing the colour of the run), or may have a marker (ball, disk, etc) on the top with the run number on it, again with colours.
They can be useful if the conditions are poor, as they give you points of reference against the white.
Not sure about using them to gauge the steepness, other than to see how quickly they look really short.
Hope that helps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, Thanks, I didn't know any of that, particularly the bit about the piste numbers - I hadn't considered that the pistes might be numbered - that could make following a piste map easier. FWIW The reference to the steepness of the slope I picked up from Spyderman's comment in the skiing in snow thread
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look to the piste poles to give you an idea of how steep the terrain is.
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brian
brian
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GrahamN, I've not noticed it anywhere else, but in Grimentz, the poles at the lhs of the piste have a small fluorescent orange band at the top. Those at the rhs have a much larger band going about half way down the pole.
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Megamum, I mentioned the piste poles as a guide to how steep the terrain is, as a visual guide if you can see at least 2 poles, so you can assess the height differential between the 2 poles across a given distance and therefore the steepness.
As stated above they can carry a lot of info dependant on the resort, piste name or number, countdown number, 1 being at the bottom, (very useful should you need to call in an emergency), left and right side of piste marker bands.
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GrahamN,
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If you're stopped and waiting for someone to catch you up/find you, and you then see a piste marker gently sail past....you're not stopped!
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Yesss! That's another motion-sickness inducing factor of bad visibility! 
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Megamum,
In a white-out, you will be more than happy with just seeing piste poles, to worry about how steep it is or anything else..... As you tell, after a while, we take them for granted but we are so glad to see them in very poor vis that we don't much care about anything else. Of course, a piste number helps but then you have to know where that leads to... which is why you should always be able to decipher a piste map when you have to..and of course, carry one...!!
Gets complicated, this skiing lark .....!!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Given whats been going on here I thought this was a wind up, but I guess anyone called megemum who keeps goats is bound to be ok. Puts head on block.
The poles mark the edges of the runs, and are colour coded Green, Blue, Red, and Black in increasing order of difficulty (steepness) sometimes you will see itineraries (off piste) marked with orange poles. Also any hazards (rocks, holes etc) on piste may be marked with poles often crossed, give them a wide berth.
In some resorts the poles will be numbered, counting down to one at the end of the run which can be very useful if you need to report an accident when you can give both the name of the run and the exact position from that number.
Some resorts paint the tops of all the poles red and use the length of the red bit (say 15cm on the left and 30cm on the right but this varies at different resorts) to indicate the left and right of the piste, which can be useful in whiteout conditions and stop you inadvertently skiing off piste.
When the pistes are covered in new snow which has not been pisted the edge of the piste will often have a hard edge hidden under the snow, stay well between the poles to avoid hitting it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm learning loads from this thread and I'm a fairly experienced skier: certainly didn't know about poles identifying the different sides of the piste. I do second this
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in bad light blue and black can be HARD to tell apart
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it can be hellish dangerous. Also, I have skied in some resorts where, in really poor visibility, you can't actually see the next pole. That freaks me out big time.
The hazard poles are quite often stripey - not sure if anyone's mentioned that.
Actually, this whole subject is a bit freaky for me - my eyesight's not great anyway, which doesn't help, and then sheer panic seems often to cause my goggles to steam up!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle,
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Actually, this whole subject is a bit freaky for me - my eyesight's not great anyway, which doesn't help, and then sheer panic seems often to cause my goggles to steam up! |
Stop, close your eyes for a while, what can you see? now open them again, you can see so much more.
Failing that, just 'use the Force' 
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I thought they were for slalom practice!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| Also, I have skied in some resorts where, in really poor visibility, you can't actually see the next pole. That freaks me out big time. |
I remember one day at Hoch-Ybrig where the white-out was so thick that one poor instructor who had a kid of about 7 or 8 out for a private lesson ended up with a string of about 30 experienced skiers following him down the mountain, just far enough away not to impinge on the lesson but close enough to see them (i.e. a couple of feet behind) because nobody could see from one piste marker to the next. We spent the rest of the day playing and practising on the nursery slope
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Poster: A snowHead
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| brian wrote: |
| GrahamN, I've not noticed it anywhere else, but in Grimentz, the poles at the lhs of the piste have a small fluorescent orange band at the top. Those at the rhs have a much larger band going about half way down the pole. |
All Swiss stations, that bother with poles at all, use that standard marking.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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a string of about 30 experienced skiers following him down the mountain
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I've done that. I didn't know where they were going, but the pupils didn't look like anything special, so I thought he'd lead them somewhere I could safely follow! I have quite often skied in white outs where you can't see the piste markers - anyone who hasn't has been lucky, I guess. In our resort they don't mark whether they are port-hand or starboard-hand poles, and it is extremely difficult sometimes to guess. I've tried "learning" them on my home run, but failed. One time I stood there, in visibility of about 2 metres max, in very snowy conditions when the only distinction between piste and off-piste was the depth of fresh untracked powder, and chose the wrong side. I immediately plunged down a little bank in very deep powder and realised I'd got it wrong. Then had to clamber back up, very gingerly as I was terrified of losing a ski, assuming that the piste was on the other side. There, the powder was only up to my knees, and the run would have been wonderful if I could just have seen where I was going. In those conditions you need markers every three feet.
I was once on my snowboard, on a very shallow slope, in those sort of conditions. I was in a good position, feeling rather clever, thinking "yes, I'm doing well here, in good balance, just don't panic". Then I looked down at the snow and realised that I was actually stationary. Just as well that nobody more than two foot away could have seen me!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well I have been skiing almost 20 weeks and never knew there was a left and right marking on piste marker poles. Top marks for the thread Megamum,
| ise wrote: |
| brian wrote: |
| GrahamN, I've not noticed it anywhere else, but in Grimentz, the poles at the lhs of the piste have a small fluorescent orange band at the top. Those at the rhs have a much larger band going about half way down the pole. |
All Swiss stations, that bother with poles at all, use that standard marking. |
Does anyone know if this is a European/International standard, or just a Swiss thing?
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I thought that they are generally white with slightly reddish cheeks.
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The other problem with white-out conditions is that your vertical hold can be affected - if you can't see the horizon, you can have problems working out which way is up, with the result that when you come to a stop, you fall over. Its very embarrassing to ski the whole mountain for days without falling over, and then keel over while stationary...
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ousekjarr, absolutely. That's why I thought I was moving nicely, when in fact I was stopped dead. Sometimes the only way to decide which way is down is to shuffle around and see which way you start sliding. I suppose that it reflects the way our balance works, and is the reason why it's so much more difficult to balance with your eyes closed. A Pilates teacher I had once said that if you practised this every day, standing first on one foot, then the other, then (when you got good at it) raising arms above head, etc. that after 6 weeks the brain "learns". Maybe we should all do more of that. I bet top skiers can stand on one leg with their eyes closed and wave their arms about all day! Another good exercise is just closing your eyes and skiing a few turns, on an easy and empty piste. It's surprisingly difficult not to cheat, but very good practice for white-outs!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What I find useful in a white-out, but is probably very bad practice at any other time, is to let my uphill pole drag along the ground behind me (only just touching, mind), helps enormously with orientation
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pam w,
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standing first on one foot, then the other, then (when you got good at it) raising arms above head,
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...add spice to this exercise by standing on a Bosu ball! (Perhaps do this near a wall to start with, so that you can put a hand out to regain your balance if necessary.  )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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..... and then have a look at the shoulder dislocation thread 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman,
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
Well I have been skiing almost 20 weeks and never knew there was a left and right marking on piste marker poles. Top marks for the thread Megamum,
| ise wrote: |
| brian wrote: |
| GrahamN, I've not noticed it anywhere else, but in Grimentz, the poles at the lhs of the piste have a small fluorescent orange band at the top. Those at the rhs have a much larger band going about half way down the pole. |
All Swiss stations, that bother with poles at all, use that standard marking. |
Does anyone know if this is a European/International standard, or just a Swiss thing? |
I've not seen poles used in the US or Canada, apart from designating dangerous areas (cliffs/rocks), or with rope running between the poles to indicate a closed area.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat, I guess that's all part of the everything's-patrolled-unless-it's-roped-off ethos? Alarming, though, for people who are happier on groomed piste and find themselves in a white-out!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hurtle, most of the pistes there are below the tree line, so no need to be alarmed as you have plenty of "poles" to use as guides in a white out.
Where pistes merge or split, there will normally be signs telling you what piste (by name and colour) goes in which direction, and frequently there will be signs showing the easiest way down.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, Yes, true in my experience (trees as poles) save that I did find the signposting in Whistler a bit mystifying at times. But that could just be me: poor eyesight, not being very observant and having zero sense of direction are serious handicaps on the slopes. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| The other problem with white-out conditions is that your vertical hold can be affected - if you can't see the horizon, you can have problems working out which way is up, with the result that when you come to a stop, you fall over. Its very embarrassing to ski the whole mountain for days without falling over, and then keel over while stationary... |
Or the other way around, when I wanted to do a complete stop but have trouble believing I actually stopped! Starting to panic because it's been a long time since I set my edge and yet I was still sliding (I thought)!
Worse is when the snow is reasonably fresh so you can't feel the scraping of the edge on the packed surface. Can't tell moving from stopping AT ALL. I end up sitting down on the piste just to be sure I wasn't sliding anywhere!
Don't know what I would do had the fresh snow were deeper...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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eng_ch wrote
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What I find useful in a white-out, but is probably very bad practice at any other time, is to let my uphill pole drag along the ground behind me (only just touching, mind), helps enormously with orie
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Excellent tip thanks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, and of course the tree line is considerably higher in the Rockies than in Europe.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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stevew, I can't say I've noticed the French using it - but the Swiss certainly do.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| abc, and of course the tree line is considerably higher in the Rockies than in Europe. |
Indeed. Hence less of a problem with perpetual bad visibility during a holiday.
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So when visibility gets really bad, people tend to just stay down in the tree-lined area,
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Trees certainly make a difference in poor visibility. But in "really bad" visibility they are just as invisible as everything else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, you're not off topic. The thing is with piste poles, they're just a little thing, in a great sea of white all around you. Big banks of trees, where pistes go through the trees (ie we're not talking about skiing in a wood, but on a piste where all the trees have been cleared off, usually by cruel bulldozing...) create a visual framework. You can see the white space in between, and aim for that. But, as I said above, in a whiteout (as opposed to a bit of fog) you can't see anything, including the trees.
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FAQ
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