 Poster: A snowHead
|
I am interested in purchasing a book that could show me the major resorts in Europe. The information typically describes a resort's general features, its location and a piste map is always shown.
I have seen one while I was in Dolomites recently. It contains a lot good size resorts that are not featured in the tour operator brochures. It is like a reference book on all the major European resorts. I didn't buy it because it was in Italian.
I wonder if an equivalent is available in English. I have already got a similar one for the American resorts but any decent European one seems to be in Italian.
For about 6 to 7 years I have been travelling in a 4x4 visiting European resorts but have yet to know how many of them actually exist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I use the Daily Mail Where to Ski & Snowboard book, which is updated every year. It does contain some advertising so I suppose it isn't completel unbiased, but on the whole, it is very comprehensive, and includes details of loads of resorts, including 'up-and-coming' ones as well as the well established ones, plus very brief info on almost every tiny ski hill I've never come across. They are always asking for reader reviews so it's not all just the opinions of the writers. It's also not afraid to be critical where resorts have gone wrong (e.g. confusing piste maps), so it's not brochure style 'this resort is amazing for everybody' type of stuff.
Is worldwide though, not just Europe, but I like it. I don't buy it every year though, about every two years is plenty.
There is also a Which Guide which I think is called 'The Good Ski & Snowboard Guide'. Has a lot of the same info, but I just don't find it as interesting to read.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Try this:
http://www.ultimate-ski.com/
They also had a book out, but I can't see the link on the site.
(Disclaimer: the founder is a personal friend. One of the contributors is a snowhead.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
A lot of web-based skiing information show everything you want to know about a resort except where it is or how to get there. Behind it the reader is encouraged to book with the operator.
Also the accommodation-based information has little regard to the adjacent skiing area. Someone checking Lech-Zurs may not know it is part of the St Anton domain or booking a quiet place but out of the way in Arabba could make it difficult to ski the Sella Ronda loop. Thus a book that has all the major resort information would be useful for selecting a strategic location for the accommodation. Accommodation can be expensive because it is better situated for skiing or having just better facilities.
I went to do a day trip in a small resort Alpbach while I was skiing in the big resort Ski Welt (Soll/Ellamu/Going/Scheffau/Bixen/Hopfgarten/Itter/Westendorf). Apparently some skiers booked Alpbach but tried to visit Ski Welt on a day trip. That can only be put down on poor resort information.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
saikee, I absolutely think that the Daily Mail WTSS guide would provide what you want. It details where in town the most convenient accommodation is, what to watch out for (e.g. if there are cheaper hotels but they're across a busy road or up/down loads of icy steps etc.), where else you can visit from there, whether a car is useful or not necessary, which locations might be great but noisy.
It also details things like how mixed ability groups would fare in each resort, which ski rental shops are convenient, what they're really like for beginners, intermediate and advanced skiers, which slopes have the best snow in the morning/afternoon, where to escape the crowds, where to watch for poor conditions, which links might close in bad weather, and even roads that might close after heavy snow etc. I find them pretty accurate for every resort I've been to.
I use the book a lot, and if I have any further specific questions, ask them in the resorts section of  !
D
Edited to add: the website resort pages only include a fraction of the info that's in the book, so don't think that's all that the book offers, it's vast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saikee, what you are looking for definitely exists but it's in German - it's the ADAC Ski-Atlas, updated and republished every year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Thanks for the information.
The ADAC publication certainly sounds promising as they do a lot of maps and road atlas.
Their web site also shows skiing places around any area I select, except it shows no resort in St Johann in Tirol and the Lichtenstein skiing resort Malbun in Vaduz, just the two resorts I casually picked. I am rather surprised by The French La Grave appears to have been missed out.
I got a feeling Daily Mail WTSS guide may be difficult to get hold of from the North East where the only thing sells is lager.
If the publication were to contain a reasonable number of resorts it has to be about 50mm or 2" thick.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 19-12-07 15:36; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Good Ski and Snowoard Guide used to be very good but I haven't seen recent copies. In earlier days they had scale maps which were more objective than the piste maps as sold in the resorts (illustrated in the guide). One of the useful features was (is?) the chart showing what resorts are good and bad at (resort level snow, off piste, easy skiing, short transfers etc). Not actually seen the Daily Mail one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Go into a travel agent.
Pick up as many free brochures as you can find. e.g. Crystal.
That will give you most of what you need to know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
saikee, they have it in our very small branch of Waterstones bookshop, so I am sure you will be able to get it in the north-east, in betweem lagers of course.
Or order it online.
It includes La Grave and St Johann. There isn't a main page on Malbun in Vaduz, but it might be included in the index.
At the front of each country chapter, there's a few maps of general resort locations, so you can see what is near where, which airports are convenient, which resorts are near to each other and the general route you could take to drive the regions.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
Go into a travel agent.
Pick up as many free brochures as you can find. e.g. Crystal.
That will give you most of what you need to know. |
ummmm, no it doesnt.
It is trying to sell the resort, so it doesnt inform you of the negative features of the resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Whitegold,
Travel agents only do resorts they have established package deals. If a resort is out of the way, not big enough, do not a large number of accommodation choices or other reasons then it will not appear in the brochure.
In two seasons I went to Zell am See (skied Kaprun, Bad Gastein, Saalbach, Leogang and Hinterglemm) and then to Ellmau (skied Scheffrau, Soll, Bixental, Itter, Going, Hopfgarten, Westerndorf, Kitzbuhel, Sankt Johann, Alpbach) I found myself having done 75% of Austrian resorts in a brochure. The truth is I probably haven't seen 90% of the Austria resorts yet. If I put all the Austria resorts in the brochures I doubt if they represent half what is actually in Austria.
French resorts in the Alps are well represented but nowhere near the actual number. Resorts in Switzerland, Italy and Austria are offered selectively only in my experience.
Since I take the trouble to drive to the resort there is the opportunity for me to select a strategic location to try as many resorts as possible. For example in one year I stayed in Bourg St Maurice and was able to sweep the Tarentaise Valley from Valmorel to Val D. The distances from Boug in this case are
From to Miles
Boug St Maurice Les Arcs 0
Boug St Maurice Ste Foy 7
Boug St Maurice Les Arcs 2000 10
Boug St Maurice La Roseries 10
Boug St Maurice La Plagne 18
Boug St Maurice Val D'lsere 18
Boug St Maurice Tigne 18
Boug St Maurice Les Menuires 32
Boug St Maurice Meribel 24
Boug St Maurice Valmorel 25
Boug St Maurice La Tania 26
Boug St Maurice St Martin De Belleville 27
Boug St Maurice Courchevel 30
Boug St Maurice Val Thoren 39
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
saikee,
Most European road atlases mark the resorts on them.
Where to ski and Snowboard? is I agree a great publication but for a good idea of the roads a road atlas is far better. The Piste maps are pretty useless in WTSS as well. I would look them up on line, an old edition (Pre1996 or for better writing pre 1992) of The good skiing guide have the maps that snowball, talks about , which are particularly useful if you are trying to work out which way the slopes face and the comparative sizes of the major resorts. WTSS can be bought from Amazon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| eng_ch wrote: |
| saikee, what you are looking for definitely exists but it's in German - it's the ADAC Ski-Atlas, updated and republished every year. |
I'm pretty sure that resorts pay for their entry and have a degree of editorial control over what's said about them.
Where To Ski & Snowboard would get my vote.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
the only problem i find with WTSS is it seems to paint a negative picture of many resorts. i know it tried to see things from all perspectives (ie if it says nightlife is crap i dont care as i dont go out) but sometimes i feel after i have read about 3/4 resorts that they are all crap and its all doom and gloom. maybe its just me but my wife agrees too !! maybe im just grumpy cos i live in lincolnshire and we have no hills !! or maybe cos theres loads of snow in the alps and im a work typing on snowheads !! (i am also looking for flights to go to la clusaz in march too !!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| saikee wrote: |
Whitegold,
Travel agents only do resorts they have established package deals. If a resort is out of the way, not big enough, do not a large number of accommodation choices or other reasons then it will not appear in the brochure.
In two seasons I went to Zell am See (skied Kaprun, Bad Gastein, Saalbach, Leogang and Hinterglemm) and then to Ellmau (skied Scheffrau, Soll, Bixental, Itter, Going, Hopfgarten, Westerndorf, Kitzbuhel, Sankt Johann, Alpbach) I found myself having done 75% of Austrian resorts in a brochure. The truth is I probably haven't seen 90% of the Austria resorts yet. If I put all the Austria resorts in the brochures I doubt if they represent half what is actually in Austria.
French resorts in the Alps are well represented but nowhere near the actual number. Resorts in Switzerland, Italy and Austria are offered selectively only in my experience.
Since I take the trouble to drive to the resort there is the opportunity for me to select a strategic location to try as many resorts as possible. For example in one year I stayed in Bourg St Maurice and was able to sweep the Tarentaise Valley from Valmorel to Val D. The distances from Boug in this case are
From to Miles
Boug St Maurice Les Arcs 0
Boug St Maurice Ste Foy 7
Boug St Maurice Les Arcs 2000 10
Boug St Maurice La Roseries 10
Boug St Maurice La Plagne 18
Boug St Maurice Val D'lsere 18
Boug St Maurice Tigne 18
Boug St Maurice Les Menuires 32
Boug St Maurice Meribel 24
Boug St Maurice Valmorel 25
Boug St Maurice La Tania 26
Boug St Maurice St Martin De Belleville 27
Boug St Maurice Courchevel 30
Boug St Maurice Val Thoren 39 |
Most international visitors go to just a handful of the best Alpine resorts.
You will find almost all those major stations in the travel brochures.
If a resort is not in a commercial brochure, it is often excluded for a reason -- because it is rubbish. Too small, gash facilities, poor snow, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Christopher wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
Go into a travel agent.
Pick up as many free brochures as you can find. e.g. Crystal.
That will give you most of what you need to know. |
ummmm, no it doesnt.
It is trying to sell the resort, so it doesnt inform you of the negative features of the resort. |
Umm, yes, it does.
It tells you all the basics. The height, the size, the pistage, the length of the main season and the distance from the airport.
And it prioritizes what are the best commercial resorts.
From that, you can tell whether it is worth a tick in the box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I certainly couldn't tell from brochures what would suit me. They all try to make out that they are wonderful.
You wouldn't know if a town was plagued by traffic of had no good restaurants or in late season the lower pistes were usually bare, or loads of other things. You would never go to La Grave if you only looked at brochures - If you found one that included it, it would look terribly restricted rather than an endless souce of fun and challenge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Whitegold, tosh. 
Too much about strengths, not much about weaknesses, endless info about hotel room configurations which can all be got off the web.
However if the general public continue to rely on them, that is fine by me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
Most international visitors go to just a handful of the best Alpine resorts.
You will find almost all those major stations in the travel brochures.
If a resort is not in a commercial brochure, it is often excluded for a reason -- because it is rubbish. Too small, gash facilities, poor snow, etc. |
Another very common reason is insufficient bed spaces available to bulk buy.
The major tour operators only generally succeeed in making a profit from a resort if they can fill several hundred beds there.
But traveling independently, you only need one hotel
So you get places like Neiderau, with about 7000 tourist beds in the valley, having all the main tour ops using it, even though there is only 60km of piste in the valley (in two separate unlinked areas). They then do day trips to Kaltenbach, which has 160 KM on just the local area, plus the whole of the Zillertal on the full pass, but only a couple of hotels, and no UK tour op goes there.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 20-12-07 13:37; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Most international visitors go to just a handful of the best Alpine resorts.
You will find almost all those major stations in the travel brochures.
If a resort is not in a commercial brochure, it is often excluded for a reason -- because it is rubbish. Too small, gash facilities, poor snow, etc.
|
The very reason I raise this thread is because my experience tells me many resorts in the brochure are to be avoided. Any skier or boarder wouldn't like to stay in the busiest part of the 3 Vallees unless he/she is after the Apres ski because there is nothing but queues.
It may be true that one must go to big places in the brochure like 3 Vallees at least once or twice but they are not the best Alpine resorts. Many brochures actually try hard to promote rubbish resorts because real skiers staying away, the place doesn't sell and the tour operators can get the accommodation on the cheap to maximize their profit.
If I am selling accommodations in Courcheval 1600 or La Tania would I tell the readers that it is near one of the extreme ends of 3 Vallees and it could be challenging if they want to ski to other far areas like Val Thorens. Equally a brochure for Leogang would not dare to describe itself as being the adppendix end of the Saalbach Hinterglemm domain. Westerdorf could be sold on the back of the biggest Austria resort Ski Welt but will it make the readers know it is cheaper because it is the only one not linked by chairlifts? Skiing resorts in Scandinavia are not very commercialised so they don't get much mentioned in the brochure. Does this means there are no good resorts there?
It seems to me the commercial interest of the tour operators could cloud our judgement. The more I ski the less I could trust the brochure information.
The requirements of fly-to-ski are also different from drive-to-ski. As a drive-to-ski skier can avoid paying the premium brochure price to ski a popular/upmarket resort by staying in accommodation at a short distance away or try out a group of small, nice but not marketable resorts close together. Brochure is not much use in such a case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
the tour op brochures dont normally offer nearly enough information on how snowsure a resort is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
and if else fails there's always 
