 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
i have 176 Gotama's from 05/06 i.e quite soft and flexible and I have an opportunity to buy 2nd hand 06/07 Fritschi Freeride bindings (i.e. not the new Plus version) These do not have any Free Heel Lock and there has been some noise primarily on TGR from the heavyweight riders .... (in more ways than 1) that on softer skis it is possible in certain situations for the ski to release the heel and for the ski to enter 'tele' mode unexpectably.
I also need to point out that im 73 kilo so light .... (and British).
Anyhow what are peoples views on this phenomenon and is it something that can be avoided through expert mounting?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just read the "mono ski down Mount Baker" thread on TGR - not heard of this happening before.
I've been skiing on freerides for 4 (I think) years now, as an all round piste-skiing and touring rig and had no problems, other than once I must have clipped the heel release with the tail of the other ski doing a down-hill kick turn, so realised I was in tele-mode just as I set off and hadn't committed to making any turns.
I've just re-mounted my freerides on a new set of skis, so you might find this site useful for
mounting freerides - there's an accurate mounting template as a downloadable PDF document (sorry - I've mentioned this before...  )
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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geoffers, Thanks for the link but in the past 2 weeks I must have read more info about touring than is humanely possible so ... i already have this link saved in my favorites!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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plectrum,
Just been looking at my FRs & scratching my head, wondering how any amount of flexing of the ski could cause the heel to release. The distance between the front & rear mounting plates is 400mm so I can see how the flexing of the ski could effectively cause a shortening of the distance (ie the chord between two points on a circle is shorter than the arc between those points). With the heel locked down, it would require 16mm of "shortening" (to 384mm) for the rear of the bar to release.
I've just flexed a steel ruler to see how much deflection is required to achieve this - the answer is 50mm.
I found this site which has an applet will calculate the correspondance between radius, span(chord) & deflection - The formula is r = s (squared) + l (squared) / 2 s where s = the deflection & l is half the chord length
So the radius of curvature which causes a 50mm deflection over a chord length of 384mm is about 394mm!!!
I think your skis would need to be made of jelly to achieve this 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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EPIC.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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plectrum - I have a guide friend in Chamonix who had a miserable time with this problem and eventually decided that he had no choice but to move over to Dynafit bindings. His problem is that he's very splay-footed (there's probably a technical term) - so for him skiing parallel is the equivalent of skiing snowplough. When he's in stressful conditions he tends to cross his ski tails and somehow manages to knock the latch.
I have FR+s and am relatively heavy (88kg) - but don't ski particularly aggressively and haven't much mileage on my FR+s.
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PhillipStanton,
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tends to cross his ski tails and somehow manages to knock the latch.
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I agree - that's the only possibility for the heel to release prematurely....
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plectrum, I've skied the FRs (not FR+) for about 3 years, at 90+ kg. I had maybe 2 or 3 "insta-tele situations", pretty much all in bumps and I'm fairly sure it was, as PhillipStanton said, one ski catching the heel release of the other and flicking it up. It didn't particularly worry me, and I've just bought some new skis with FR+ on them (after about 15 weeks skiiing my FRs were getting a bit worn at the heel lock and starting to rattle, and there was a good deal on the package). I guess you could drill a hole in the heel lock and make up some sort of hook into to the mounting plate, but it seems a bit of a faff to me - I also like being able to flick into freeheel mode with a pole handle when walking on skis across flat or slightly uphill runouts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| I guess you could drill a hole in the heel lock and make up some sort of hook into to the mounting plate, but it seems a bit of a faff to me -. |
http://www.wildsnow.com/?p=916 describes doing that
Incidentally, AFAIK there's no such thing as a "06/07 Fritschi Freeride bindings", the Plus was released in Spring 2006. Any plain Freeride sold season 06/07 was just old stock.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| I must admit (after following this thread) that I'd considered something like this as the obvious solution, but if you flex your ski you can see that some movement must be allowed for. I'd be concerned that you could trash the curved placcy heel fixing by putting a bar through the heel piece.
I've only flipped the heel lock once in 4yrs of skiing FRs, so don't really consider it a problem....
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Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 20-12-07 21:47; edited 2 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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geoffers, I have a better solution> there is a cube hole which needs to change shape as the heel support rises to release the heel. If you cut a block of cork to the size when heel lock is engaged you can push this in. Then get a screw with a ring hook on and screw it into the cork to enable you to pull it in and out. Obviously this will resist any shape change of the hole and as such add to the resistance against flipping from heel lock to free heel
In terms of flex, the cork should be able to compress to allow for any flex. I may draw a diagram and send it to Lou Dawson's site to see what they think.
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plectrum, Who'd have believed that this thread could go on for so long, but....Neat idea 
I've just noticed 2 things I hadn't spotted before - in the rear mounting plate (by the back screw) are 2 stops which prevent the bar from moving more than 5mm relative to the plate when the ski flexes, so my worry about damage using a pin (above) is no longer a problem.
Also, on the placcy sub-plate at the heel, there's a little hook thingy - this can be really useful to prevent the tails of your skins coming unstuck if you don't have tail-hooks. Sew a length of webbing to your skin, and tension it with a piece of shockcord to this hook (I've put a screw in the deck in the past). Also makes it a lot easier to whip the skins off without removing the ski, as you can grab the cord/tape.
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You know it makes sense.
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| geoffers wrote: |
plectrum,
Just been looking at my FRs & scratching my head, wondering how any amount of flexing of the ski could cause the heel to release. The distance between the front & rear mounting plates is 400mm so I can see how the flexing of the ski could effectively cause a shortening of the distance (ie the chord between two points on a circle is shorter than the arc between those points). With the heel locked down, it would require 16mm of "shortening" (to 384mm) for the rear of the bar to release.
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My wife has the original Diamirs (white toe and heel pieces) which have a shorter overlap between the tabs on the plate and heel lock than on later models, i.e. they could go into 'tele' mode with less than 16mm shortening between the mountings, and I do wonder if many of the flex related release incedents took place with this version of the binding. Its never happened to her but then she's pretty light and doesn't hammer through moguls.
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