 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi everyone - am driving (for 1st time) from uk to Samoens late December and have seen a couple of comments suggesting that SAT NAV might not be a good idea. I was depending on the SAT NAV for our trip (but will take map as well). I have searched the forums but can't find any advice for or against the use of SAT NAV so would like any advice you can give me (plus any top tips you have for this road trip in general!)
Ta! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Freestyle, I've used Sat Nav the last couple of times I've driven through France and no problems as long as you check the route against a map before you go - there may be some routes that take you the 'quickest' way which does not takle into account heavy traffic etc 
I have heard rumblings from people saying that Sat Navs that allow for speed camera detection are illegal in Switzerland. Not sure about this but sure someone else will clarify.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Freestyle, the journey to Samoens is easy enough - it's in the valley bottom, no passes to catch the satnav out. But yes, do check against a map. Yes, the Swiss experts seemed quite clear that it was strictly speaking illegal for any satnav in Switzerland (even switched off and put in the boot) to show speed cameras. But I can't imagine even a satnav would send you from the channel to Samoens through Switzerland. What day are you travelling Freestyle?
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MrDan, Thanks. The SAT NAV, Google Maps and Multimap all agree on the same route so that seems a good start. I guess I don't know about heavy traffic because I've never done it before...althought my SAT NAV has green TMC thing that tells me about the traffic congestion and offers diversions (don't know if it will work in France still?).
My SAT NAV doesn't have the speed camera detector (oh wait - does it appear as a blue C in a blue circle? I've been wondering what those were!!) My SAT NAV is integrated into the car so I can't turn it off but...
pam w, thanks - you are right, we won't be going through Switzerland and we're travelling 27th December - I imagine the traffic will be quite heavy! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Freestyle - the principle thing to worry about is whether the satnav tries to route you over any passes that are closed in winter. You won't have that problem driving to Samoens. (Unless you decide to go via Lake Geneva, Thonon and Morzine - in which case it's odds on that the satnav will plump for the Col de Jeau Plaine).
I drive down to Morzine on my SatNav and the main problem I have is that the map for Boulogne is out of date / inaccurate and that it constantly tries to route me via Paris. The first of these just requires patience. The second requires you to explicitly route via Reims (I have a TomTom).
At the Samoens end, the only real decision you have is whether to come off the A40 at junction 14 and go up the Vallee Verte - or whether to come off at Cluses.
The latter is generally quicker, but involves a large hill which can be nasty if the weather is bad as the road is exposed and can get very, very icy. Two years ago a car did a 360 degree spin about 50m infront of me.
The former is slower, but is a much more gradual climb, avoids going up only to come back down again and (IMHO) better in bad weather.
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PhillipStanton,
Thanks - I never really know which is quicker re: A40 junction choices but I thik I prefer Vallee Vert (we have driven often from GVA) as via Taninges and Verchaix means we don't join the Cluses/ Chattilion or Morillon traffic.
I know what you mean re SAT NAV and Col D J P - we heard of some Brits losing a day in Morzine last year cos they got stuck going over it from Sam to Morzine!
FS
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I'm sure I read somewhere that a Sat Nav that shows speed cameras is illegal in France too - I read it on a forum somewhere so it could well be wrong but would appreciate clarification if anyone knows?
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Freestyle, I have never had any problems with our Sat Nav which is built in to our car, but some have reported being sent over closed passes. Charli939, only illegal if it is a detector I think, if it simply shows the positions of fixed cameras it isn't. So a Road Angel would be illegal
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Charli939, I think the ones that warn you of non-fixed radars are illegal in France. But I don't have a satnav so have never had to be really sure.
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I drove to LDA last year with no problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I,ve driven out to Zermatt and Verbier with my son and found the SATNAV to be invaluable. It did try to send us over a mountain pass but I reviewed the route before setting off and added a via point to avoid the pass and use majors roads.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sat Navs that show the position of fixed cameras are illegal in Switzerland - so manufacturers have taken the Swiss cameras out of the european databases, so as long as you are aware that won't get a warning in Switzerland there is no problem These GPS database based warning systems are legal everywhere else. Detector devices are illegal in many european countries - especially France - do not even take one there!
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Thanks all, thats makes more sense.
Mental note to self: stuff road angel down top when driving in France.. might improve bust line as an added bonus 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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FenlandSkier, I'm still working on understanding the calendar function 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| found the SATNAV to be invaluable. It did try to send us over a mountain pass but I reviewed the route before setting off and added a via point to avoid the pass and use majors roads. |
I don't have a satnav. I did wish once that I did, when I had to drive alone in to the middle of Lyon and find a slightly obscure hotel. It would have been great for that. But for just going down the road from Calais to, say, Chamonix, how does it help? Once you've looked at the map to check it isn't sending you over some mountain pass, you know the way and don't really need it any more? French mapping and signposting is fine, the autoroutes are the easiest possible roads to navigate around. I am not anti-gadget, and I have used GPS in boats since it was invented. But they still strike me as very expensive luxuries to have in a car in the best mapped countries in Europe. Especially if you have to keep a range of software up to date. I buy a new Michelin map about every 3 years (and every time I hope that damned Geneva to Annecy autoroute will be open...) Will satnavs get heaps cheaper soon? What's so wonderful about them? You have to have a map as well. And when I'm not driving I enjoy looking at the map and seeing what's around - "Oh, so that's where Strasbourg is" or "we're really near the German border here". I did enjoy watching the satnav in a friend's car but I found it very disorientating having no idea of my position in relation to the surrounding geography. We spent four days driving round southern Belgium, with the damned satnav, and at the end of the stay I had little more idea of the layout of the area than I had at the beginning, something I found disconcerting. I suppose you can zoom in and out, but it's not the same as sitting with a big fold out map and a large glass of whisky, planning a route, is it? I think I'll wait till they are a lot cheaper - they seem expensive, for what they are, at the moment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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personally i quite like mine not just for telling me the route. Can give me a time of arrival. Tell me how many miles left etc which helps with diesel. Can point out fuel stations and gives me an assurance that if i stray from route at all will easily find my way back.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Can give me a time of arrival. |
How does it do this? To provide an estimated duration of trip my basic boat GPS looks at the course made good, in relation to the destination, which can help you make decisions about when to tack, but doesn't actually tell you anything v useful about when you are going to get there because there are a lot of variables it doesn't know about. Presumably the car sat nav does something cleverer than divide the remainder of the planned route by your current speed? How many variables can it take into account? If you stray from your route it will tell you instantly, obviously, and I can see that that could save useful time - it might take you longer to realise that you had gone wrong without one. But actually getting back to the right route, once you have realised you've boobed, is usually easy enough with a map.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, I guess you are handing over control and not learning as much as you would be if you planned your route but garethjomo, is right about the time and miles advantage. I bought my car privately and it came with SAT NAV built in so I didn't think it much but I love it now - especially for short cuts in london!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| especially for short cuts in london! |
yes, I can see that in cities, especially strange ones, or big ones, they can be a huge advantage; it's difficult reading maps when you're on your own and can't stop. But for long distance autoroute driving, say from Calais to the Alps? I don't see the advantage there. Maybe I'm just a control freak - I would absolutely have to know where I am on a map (or chart, if I'm on a boat), not just on a little screen a few inches across.
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pam w, I think you should write a book: 'The lost art of navigation' because soon everyone wil have SAT NAV and like children now say 'wow look it these black CDs' at jumble sales, we'll say 'Ooh what's that old paper with the squiggly lines on it for?'
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Freestyle, my daughter once started plonking around with an old portable typewriter which emerged from the attic during a house move. She asked where the "delete key" was and I explained about rubbers, snopake and tippex. She was aghast and thought I was having a laugh. I'll have the last laugh when the US military switches off the GPS satellites, or some techno-terrorists manage to bug the system!  It's a rational military strategy - remember Dad's Army, and all the signposts removed in the English countryside during the last war? I do enjoy navigation though - inherited from my dad, who taught me how to use a compass in bad weather in the Brecon Beacons when I was 11! I can see that SatNav can be extremely useful, and a fun gadget, but I do despair if people think they can't get from Calais to Chamonix without one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, LoL
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I believe in Sat Nav because I could verify the route with Autoroute. In fact anybody can attached a cheap Sat sensor to a laptop and run Autoroute program as the Sat Nav and enjoys the 14" huge display screen. The downside is there is no voice assistance. From my experience the Autoroute routes matches 98% of the Sat Nav routes I have tried.
I have travelled all the major European countries, including Ireland, on just a Sat Nav by entering the hotel addresses and expect the device to takes me door to door. It has yet to fail me once. France is a piece of cake. Getting to a hotel in the middle of a mountain in Lichtenstein is a more realistic challenge.
Taking the shortest distance and therefore the scenic route can be a bad idea because no Sat Nav system is perfect with the latest road additions/alterations/deletions. Taking the fastest route, which involves essentially the main roads, is the best bet because the main roads seldom got radically altered.
The Sat Nav may break down in congested city with high rise buildings. I had to loop part of the city several times to find a hotel once in Koln and driving through tunnels didn't help either. Elsewhere it should work like a treat.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, kind of agree with you. We use a map, but also have Sat Nav. I like the Sat Nav as:
1. Can be very handy to know how far from hotel, lunch stop etc to placate the kids! Obviously only an estimate based on current progress but usually accurate.
2. The wife does tend to doze off and checking sat nav is easier than driving and looking at map
3. In unfamiliar places, using it to locate petrol stations has been handy
4. Particularly useful in London IMHO when difficult to spot the street names - particularly if alone
That said I could get to Les Arcs without it and know how to read maps. The secret is not to trust it 100% and always go with your own judgement
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[quote="pam w"]
| Quote: |
Can give me a time of arrival.
How does it do this? To provide an estimated duration of trip my basic boat GPS looks at the course made good, in relation to the destination, which can help you make decisions about when to tack, but doesn't actually tell you anything v useful about when you are going to get there because there are a lot of variables it doesn't know about. |
On the boat I race we have a pretty sophisticated set up that enables the gps info to be combined with real time tide and wind data and then works out the best course to sail taking account information from the boat's polars that are already loaded into the laptop. You can also load grib files in so that it know what the wind should do for the next few hours. With all this it gives a pretty accurate idea of arival time.
This sort of thing is great when it's blowing 25knots, it's 3am you are cold, wet, half way through a 24hr race to France and a bit tired!!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| With all this it gives a pretty accurate idea of arival time. |
Yes, I'm sure it does, and I wondered how much clever stuff was built into the satnav function for estimating time of arrival. For example, does it calculate a different average mileage over different routes - so that it knows that 20 miles over a mountain pass will take a heap longer than 20 miles on the autoroute, with 20 miles on a flat country road somewhere in between?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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[quote="pam w"]
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| so that it knows that 20 miles over a mountain pass will take a heap longer than 20 miles on the autoroute, with 20 miles on a flat country road somewhere in between? |
Normally , yes, and you change the various averages yourself ... and ime just as inaccurate as those on boats 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Roger C wrote: |
This sort of thing is great when it's blowing 25knots, it's 3am you are cold, wet, half way through a 24hr race to France and a bit tired!!!! |
poof!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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whhhaaat?!!
sorry, but are you from the'70s?
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