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Balkans: better than the Alps?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
We are thinking of going to a Balkan cheapo alternative this year instead of St.Anton (off mid jan)

Is it worth it?

On 1st appearances, flight+hotel:
~£500+ for the St.Anton/Chamonix/Val d'Isère/Tignes/Verbier/Zermatt/Jackson Hole/Whistler
~£250+ for Balkans

Snow, Money, Crowds?

1. How far off are the conditions compared to those greats?

2. How much richer will be/further can the money go? It looks only about half price here but do you find yourself coming back with more cash somehow as it goes? It would be nice to feel rich when we get there.

3. How much quieter can these places be?
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jago25_98, welcome to snowHeads snowHead

I've never skied the Balkans so can't comment, but I'm sure someone else will be along soon. What ability level are you and your group? I guess that is one of the things that needs to be taken into consideration when picking a resort.
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A Balkan resort will offer you just a fraction of the skiing available at St.Anton/Chamonix/Val d'Isère/Tignes/Verbier/Zermatt/Jackson Hole/Whistler.

Everything will be cheaper in the Balkans but what you looking for? If its top skiing like in the above resorts then your be dissapointed.
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jago25_98, I am apologising in advance ..... on this site I see 50%+ of new members making their first post about f'king Bankso, Borovets etc etc .....

Let me make something very clear:

St.Anton/Chamonix/Val d'Isère/Tignes/Verbier/Zermatt/Jackson Hole/Whistler are some of the VERY best ski areas on the ENTIRE world. The community is established and vibrant, the mountain is prepared superbly in all conditions, the runs are professionaly chosen, the guiding system is excellent and very knowledgeable, the ski schools are multi lingual, friendly and effective.

Balkan resorts are uncomparable with those above. They are still in development so much is a building site, the mountain is no where near as well prepared. The ski bodies still do not even properly understand the potential of their mountains. The schools will not offer the same level of tuition, I have not read or heard one report about off piste potential or guiding services. The general view is that the mountains are for beginner to intermediate skiers.

As a ski fan, I have not gone and perhaps will never go to these resorts as their is NO advantage over any French/Italian/Swiss/Austrian resort of which there are in the hundreds of resorts. The main reason for this is because in my opinion it is a complete waste of money as my priority on a ski holiday is SKIING. Each to their own and your reason for going on a ski holiday will be completely different to mine but Balkan ski holidays are BUDGET ski holidays and similar to BUDGET beach holidays they are not the real deal.

Here is a suggestion > Find the cheapest flight that you can to Grenoble with Ryan Air, then take a coach to Les Deux Alps or Alp D'Huez. Stay in a cheap appartment room in reasonably central location. Cook for yourself.

Flight - £50, transfer £15 return, cheap Flat shared for 4 - £75, ski hire £70, lift pass £120, Food to cook - £30, Drink in flat £30, Food & Drink outside flat £150

Total - £540 of which £150 is entertainment.
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jago25_98, On top of this ..... arggggggggggggggggggg ..... please take a look at the webcam and snow report for St Anton. I would give blood sweat and tears to have the opportunity to ski in a resort such as St Anton this season. It is looking very much as if it could be absolutely spectacular. We skiied their last season in Feb with limited snow and it was amazing, this year it will be like a dream.
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jago25_98, Welcome to snowHead 's. I guess the answer you will get to your question is .............NO.

Sorry to rain on your parade. You could for a little work do a DIY trip to a better established resort for the same money as plectrum, has outlined.
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I have been skiing for many years and in simple terms I think you get what you pay for.

Skiing is a hugely commercial business and prices are dictated primarily by market forces.

I think the best advice to get value for money as others have already suggested is to book late in off peak season times.
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Plectrum i cant get it! how you can talk about bansko and the other f*cking resorts if you havent been there. Every ski resort have something different to offer and bansko is one of them. 7days hol -FLIGHTS -50£ wissair,easyjet, Transfer -10-20£ ,flatshare for 4 - as less as 30£ ,ski hire -£50 lift pass £80,food to cook -£20, drinks inside -20£ ,food and drinks ouside - £100 (drunk 24/7) Total - 470-400£
Or you can book all incl. hol for the £450. If you r not a pro skier looking for heli rides and virgin snow (bansko have that as well, but no helicopters )Bansko is good week of skiing for your money.
The prices which you supply in your post i beleve are for a weekend holiday.
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SERJOE wrote:

The prices which you supply in your post i beleve are for a weekend holiday.
No, I'm afraid you'll find his numbers pretty accurate. I was there a couple of weeks ago - Les Deux Alpes is really not very expensive compared to many French resorts.
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plectrum wrote:
......I have not read or heard one report about off piste potential ......


Look at the pictures. It must be fantastic, even though we don't know much about it.
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Wow people come on a skiing forum and ask about ski resorts and that pi$$es you off, you need to get out more
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jago25_98 my wife and i had our first sking trip together to Borovets about 7 years ago as neither of us had been sking since a week each with school and wanted a cheapish package deal. We had a great week and it got us both hooked on skiing Very Happy

We havent however been back which does tell you something.......

For a group of friends who are beginners or early intermediates and like going out and partying hard you could have a great time withouth spending a fortune. Alternatively a last minute booking off peak to one of the main resorts can be nearly as cheap especially if you dont want to go our drinking every night.......
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jago25_98, have you actually been to all those swish resorts? I haven't, but I've had plenty of good holidays. You're talking about going from one end of the spectrum right to the other - there are masses of less well known resorts, in France, Austria and Italy, where you can get much better skiing than in Bulgaria, without spending a fortune. But you haven't said what you are looking for. What kind of slopes, what kind of accommodation, is apres important, etc. If you want tailored advice, you'll need to ask a more specific question. If you ask whether a Bulgarian resort is going to be pretty much like St anton, but cheaper, the answer is definitely no! Personally, I would always prefer to self-cater in a resort with good skiing (doesn't have to be posh) than stay in a mass produced hotel in a poor environment. But others can't bear the thought of cooking on holiday. Horses for courses.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I did a week in Pamporovo as a 2nd week skier. THe tuition was excellent, and the pistses although limited were fine. However by the end of the week we weere feeling very limited and that was the amin reason for not returning as unlike the Alps there is nowhere else locally to go if you exhaust your resort.

I fyou go to Austria, France or Italy, you can normally access another area or 2 that gives more variety.

In short I have no problem With Eastern Europeparticualrly if you want tuition Smile , but personally I would not want to take the chance that I run out of runs I want to ski.
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afcbtim wrote:
......... but personally I would not want to take the chance that I run out of runs I want to ski.


Looks like you shouldn't

Quote:
Bulgaria.....but the real point of note is heliskiing. At only €50 per person (£35), it is the cheapest ride you'll ever have. It's not Alaska, but then it is also not the standard US$500 rate.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 18-11-07 8:28; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Balkens? is that like Serbia etc cos I went to Kopanik a long time ago and apart from the basic nature of the facilities it was brilliant. Stayed at the Jat apartments. That were a loooong time ago mind so things may have changed. Anyone else been recently?
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SERJOE, You may have noticed that one of the criteria that most skiers look for is skiing range and variety, to include a pricing structure that boasts a £100 figure food and drink (DRUNK 24/7) may not be doing any justice to your arguement. Most of the contributors on snowHead 's take to the mountains to be at one with the wilderness and enjoy the fresh air and craic. If I wanted to get arseh*led every night I would go on a 18/30's holiday with the added bonus of an easy sh*g. (oops I do not qualify for that holiday on age grounds anymore Crying or Very sad ).

If cheap and tacky holidays are a criteria for booking, I am sure there are resorts that can accomodate those wishes. If a good value and quality skiing holiday is what you are wanting, follow plectrum, 's advice. It is achievable. Enjoy the mountains, and a few beers. Being drunk 24/7 and skiing is DANGEROUS. the drunken idiot on the slope may not damage himself but may ruin the holiday for others, just like the drunken idiots that drive ruin others lives. Not a rant, but I suggest you and we all think about those actions. Bon ski!!
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Roy Hockley
I am not saying that you have to drink 24/7 on a ski holiday. In fact when i go on ski hol 4 out of 7 nights i go to bed as early as 10 to be fresh in the morning for a full day skiing. I made a point to plectrum , that you cant talk for a resort if u haven’t been there. Bansko is a very good resort for beginner / intermediate skier, and with 70 km of runs is more enough for 7 day holiday. The figures talk themselves - 1 out of every 4 units in bansko are purchased by UK, Irish or Scots.
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SERJOE wrote:
Roy Hockley
I am not saying that you have to drink 24/7 on a ski holiday. In fact when i go on ski hol 4 out of 7 nights i go to bed as early as 10 to be fresh in the morning for a full day skiing. I made a point to plectrum , that you cant talk for a resort if u haven’t been there. Bansko is a very good resort for beginner / intermediate skier, and with 70 km of runs is more enough for 7 day holiday. The figures talk themselves - 1 out of every 4 units in bansko are purchased by UK, Irish or Scots.


Now pointing to the British and Irish obsession with property ownership as an indicator of skiing quality is a bit of a stretch. I haven't been but I saw the promo DVD the tourist office put out and that was presumably biased towards the high points. I'm sure it serves a niche just like Andorra used to. Sure there is a bit of snobbery at play here & I have been to plenty of genuine "world class" resorts when conditions have been worse than a day in Milton Keynes but if the original question is "taking everything into consideration is the skiing in Bansko likely to be good as somewhere wel known in the Alps?" the answer must generally be no.
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Girlfriend booked Courchevel on a whim as it was as a deal (£300 each). I guess she's happy to miss throwing down the north face of rendle this year.

I've never been able to afford a real holiday before and so skiing is new to me.

Thanks for all the replies. I decided to be a little bit vague about what I'm looking for to get more interesting responses...

but I did say exactly what I was looking for - a compromise on quality for an increase in value for money and quietness. I was looking at alternatives because I felt that it might be possible to improve on value for money and quietness without compromising a massive amount on quality.


Also, I have friends in Eastern Europe to visit.
And, me personally, I don't like buying into established cultures I prefer to look for fresh pastures. I'd rather be on that building site.

After some research I think the Balkans depends a lot on exactly where you are. I get the impression that only Basko and Kopanik can really hold thier own. Anyone viewing the other resorts gets a false impression.

If I was going alone I would drive there and camp. If I had more money I would go to the Russia or Kashmir. If I was in the clique I would follow that.

But I now have more interesting info and I want to visit, but another time.
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fossil wrote:
Balkens? is that like Serbia etc cos I went to Kopanik a long time ago and apart from the basic nature of the facilities it was brilliant. Stayed at the Jat apartments. That were a loooong time ago mind so things may have changed. Anyone else been recently?



I went to Kop last season and had a great time.

The resort itself is small and well presented. Nobuilding work going on. The slopes (about 50kms) are great if you are a beginner or intermediate but nothing of note with regards to blacks etc.

We payed about £300 for a half board hotel AND lift pass and stayed in the Hotel Club A.

Beer was about £1 a pint, good food both in the hotel and restereaunts.

Anything else???

Heres a link to my pics.
http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=s16ik2r.9sdl6rlr&Uy=c5ju7c&Ux=0

Theres an english website for Kop here.. http://www.eng.infokop.net/

And theres plenty of snow there already....
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jago25_98, I've skied Borovets once, to be honest for the price we paid it was a good value weeks skiing. We fell lucky with the snow conditions, took us forever to get from the airport as they'd had a massive dump but conditions were good for most of the week. Out of your list I've visited St.Anton/Chamonix/Val d'Isère/Tignes/Verbier and to be honest you can't even begin to compare Borovets to them but I suppose it depends on what you're after. I'd rather get a cheap flight and accommodation myself and go to one of the world class resorts on your list. If you get a spare weekend or more try a cheapo Balkan but if it's your main holiday get to the Alps. (in my opionion wink snowHead )
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SERJOE, I am happy to know that one of my fellow snowheads is not an accident waiting to happen. From your first post it inferred that you were one of the dangerous crew on the mountain. Glad to know all is in moderation.

I am suprised that it is only 1 out of 4 bought by the inhabitants of these isles!!!! From what I understand the locals cant afford to buy there. This is actually the problem with the Bansko ecconomy, you have to have a large local clientelle to service the resort. If for example each of the owners spend 3 weeks in resort where is the additional income coming from? From what I know the property prices are high for a developing resort, many trying to sell but to no avail. I will go to Bansko and will no doubt enjoy it. But the answer to the question is still probably no.

Grimsby Ranger, I would be with you and you can get good deals to more established resorts.
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I've skiied in Romania, Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro AND the Alps.

Bosnia is good. The sarajevo resorts are former olympic venues and have a large local population who use and respect the mountain, good local ski guides will bring you backcountry and off piste for a fraction of Alpine prices

Romania has loads of potential, since 1989, the food is rubbish, the resorts have not been invested and it still has loads of potential!

Serbia is fun, loud and skiing is limited.

Montengro is chaotic, amazing mountains, great people, real balkan culture but resorts are organised by amateurs.

There are four resorts in the Balkans that are comparable to an small alpine resort; Jahorina in Bosnia, Kaponik in Serbia, Bansko in Bulgaria and Brezovica in Kosovo. At a stretch you could include Zabljak in Montenegro,, Borovets in Bulgaria and Poaina Brasov in Romania.

Basically in terms of skking in Europe you pretty much get what you paid for.

For an different type of trip I would recommend Zabljak in Montenegro. It's cheap but doesn't pretend to compete with the Alps.
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Now that's a fantastic post. Good work Killian.
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killian, Excellent point you summed up exactly what everyone else has said. "Basically in terms of skking in Europe you pretty much get what you paid for."
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killian wrote:
........Bosnia is good........... good local ski guides will bring you backcountry and off piste for a fraction of Alpine prices..........


Tempting.
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I know loads of people who've been for weeks in the Balkans and enjoyed it. It's not the same as going to an Alpine mega resort, but it's not the same price either. If budget is important, then go for it.
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You know it makes sense.
Serjoe: My numbers are accurate every ski week I take costs ~ £500 possibly £100 more if I go out alot (which I don't, I'm a londoner and there is plenty to party over here).

Obviously if you want a 5* hotel and mountain based holiday on the cheap, possibly the Balkans will suffice but bare in mind these resorts are not 5* resorts in anyway. As an example of point 'the mayor of Bankso has banned construction work during this season' most likely because it was such a distraction and scar on the resort during previous seasons.

If you read the SCGB review on Bankso it states that it has the potential as a mountain to rival the likes of Verbier .... but it is only potential at present. It goes on to say that hotel dining is not recommended and so for all those 'all inclusive' packages you have to go out anyhow (even though dining out is very cheap)

Serjoe: I can have an opinion on a resort without having visited it. I love skiing and mountains and try to read plenty and listen to many on worldwide resorts and experiences.
I do not like to 'bash' but I just feel there are loads of more exciting ways of spending £300 than a budget holiday to the balkan resorts.

Also the world would be a very dull place if people only had opinions on things they have directly experienced what would people discuss in pubs .... or on internet forums!!!!

Killian: nice post and I agree but in addition it depends on whether your raison d'etre is to go on an adventure and travelling based holiday or whether you want to go on a ski holiday. For the latter I would choose the mountains and areas which are famed for great skiing.

The most amusing thing about this entire thread is the final destination chosen by Jago .... Courcheval . Please tell me you are staying at 1850 so I can die with laughter. Enjoy your holiday dude as Les Trois Vallees is a brilliant ski area. Also Courchevalis a very nice resort at all levels but ...... it ain't cheap Twisted Evil
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jago25_98 wrote:


If I was going alone I would drive there and camp.


I am not sure I would like to camp in winter in a mountain resort, cold, cold, cold.
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jago25_98 wrote:
If I had more money I would go to the Russia or Kashmir.


Jago, how good are you at skiing? My advice, take it or leave it, is that before you decide to go adventuring in these pastures new make sure that you are very competant on the mountain. Mountains are always dangerous places especially when they may not have the excellent public services and mountain rescue that are common in European destinations.

I feel that Russia has potential to become quite exciting but I have also heard that it is bitterly cold. Please post back your experiences if you ever visit these new lands Wink
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Places like Poina Brasnov and Gulmarg have the potential to be truly "must go" skiing destinations but my guess is they are still in their infancy. As they develop the characterisitcs that attract the leading edge users like pro film cres and athletes will become old news but they are getting on the map. Metro had a feature on Gulmarg last week for instance and it seriously piqued my interest.
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All I can say is do not knock a country/region until you have tried it. You can get to Sophia in Bulgaria for a few quid on Easyjet at the moment, and the local ski resort has had loads of snow and is supposed to have great apres Very Happy ........ worth a punt just for the experience maybe Very Happy. Some times there is a bit too much snobbery at major Alps resorts Sad and roughing it a bit somewhere different sounds like fun.

BTW £50 flights to Grenoble or any (Alps) airports at decent times/days are harder to come by this year (but not impossible) compared with last year, with fuel hikes and luggage surcharges
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killian wrote:


Romania has loads of potential, since 1989, the food is rubbish, the resorts have not been invested and it still has loads of potential!


I was on the hill in Sinaia in 1976 should of seen it then !!
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achilles wrote:
killian wrote:
........Bosnia is good........... good local ski guides will bring you backcountry and off piste for a fraction of Alpine prices..........


Tempting.


Oh yeah, I forgot, DO NOT even think about backcountry in Vlasic, Igman and, to a lesser extent, Bjelesnica in Bosnia without a local, there is an ongoing process of mine clearance in these areas and visitors can still see the not very enticing "MINES" skull and crossbones signs casually pinned to trees.

The piste areas and lift linked off piste are clear.
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re: "The most amusing thing about this entire thread is the final destination chosen by Jago .... Courcheval . Please tell me you are staying at 1850 so I can die with laughter. Enjoy your holiday dude as Les Trois Vallees is a brilliant ski area. Also Courchevalis a very nice resort at all levels but ...... it ain't cheap"

^ yes it's funny isn't it! Very Happy We'll have to stick to skiing 24/7. We're right at the bottom so we'll have to catch the lift to go spotting for Posh&Becks, Royal family et al. My wallet is quaking. Fingers crossed!

re: "camping" I will buying a wood burning stove for the camper van. Still, I'm probably dreaming! My girl met a guy who was camping around Austria for adventure in high season - hardcore

re: `mine clearance` - !!! Now that's a thrill Very Happy
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rayscoops wrote:

BTW £50 flights to Grenoble or any (Alps) airports at decent times/days are harder to come by this year (but not impossible) compared with last year, with fuel hikes and luggage surcharges


Ok - book 'em whilst you can > JAN 19th to JAN 26th

Ryan Air Stansted to Grenoble £47 for 1 person arriving 9pm departing 9.25pm. Transfer from Grenoble with Ben's Bus synchronised with flights which means skiing possible on final Saturday. Transfer costs £35 return.

2 person apartment including list pass is £205 with Les 2 Alpes online booking

Food £25
Non Alc £10
Dinner Alc £25

Ski Hire £50 with Sport 2000

Carte Neige = ~ £12

So total = £409 not including party budget.

So enjoy sking at Les Deux Alps and if you get bored take a day trip to La Grave for off piste. Sorry this beats fair and square Eastern Europe on price and on enjoyment and I also would bet it will beat it on night life partying aswell. It also beats easily on skiing. Only draw back is you need yo cook and if you are a big eater double the food budget.

This quote is correct as of 13:38 on Nov 19th and is for a skier of level 3/4 out of 10. Extra levels will add from £10-40 in ski hire.


I think i should set up a ski holiday travel agency Wink
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plectrum wrote:


The most amusing thing about this entire thread is the final destination chosen by Jago .... Courcheval .


Its a bit like someone saying Im thinking of going to Soldeu (Andorra) and ends up going to St Moritz Very Happy
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Ok First Choice as of 14:02 19th Dec

1 week 19th - 26th Jan - half board hotel 4* with ski hire and lift pass £551 each - carte neige will not cover Bulgaria for same charge as France and so insurance will be ~ £30 a person. If as SCGB review is correct and food is not great in hotel, then extra $$ will need to be spent on nightly eating.

I know that option A: France is SC and option B: Bulgaria is HB but I think this shows that with a quick 20 min spat on the internet it is not as easy as one thinks to book through reputable well known sources an exceptionally cheap Eastern European holiday.
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plectrum, we do not all live in London so the flights are not good for me, can I go in March instead, also I want lessons too?? Very Happy plus the flights are only cheap becasue you are getting in and leaving at 9.00 pm (£30 - £50 more for other times) - I would be surprised if Bens Bus is around then, and what happens on the last day when you have been turfed out of your hotel at 11 am and your ski hire and pass has expired? If the arriving flight is late - which it maybe becasue they are the last ones of the day - Bens Bus will not wait more than 45 minutes. Accommodation is a cupboard and ski hire will be the cheapest skis they have Shocked

Skiing is good though and apres is good, but at a price.

seriously though, a bunch of mates have booked a trip to Bulgaria (Boro...something) from Bristol in first week of March at good times, and it is £350 each including flights, transfer, H/B accomm, board hire and lessons and ski pass

perhaps you ought to hold on to that day job wink
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