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I've just realised something...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Now that I'm back to skiing in Europe, I've just realised that I might have to endure the potential horrors of the infamous T-Bar! I hate the bloody things! Mad

Passo Tonale, the resort I'm off to in less than 5 weeks has 2 of them both on the Glacier and the only lifts in that area apart from the Gondola and then the chairlift that takes you up to the T-Bars!

Oh well, let the comedy begin! Laughing Embarassed
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quite a few glaciers only have drag lifts, because they aren't solid enough for anything more.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've used the T bar on the glacier and boy - is it steep, hold on tight !
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Curiosity is getting the better of me .... I've never been on a T-bar. Are they much different to a button drag lift?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
MissRibena, yes.
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achilles, Fair enough ... was only asking Confused
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Yep - because on a T bar the gaper standing next to you in the lift line (to borrow a stateside term) can bring you down in an untidy heap any time they want. 40 seasons of experience? All the kit? Cat like balance and legs Charles Atlas could only dream of?* It all counts for nothing when the halfwit you're sharing a lift with chooses to slough their skis wildly over the tips of yours whilst mantaining a limpet-death-grip on the lift bar. Another good reason for carrying avalanche kit inbounds is so you have a shovel handy to bury their corpse...


*I have none of these things, but have been felled by idiots more times than I care to remember.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
MissRibena, a T-Bar is a draglift meant for 2 people as a opposed to 1, which is fine, as long as you have a person of similar height that can go alongside you on it, going on one on your own can be a nightmare.

I'm 6' 2" and have very seldom found anyone of similar height whenever I've gone on them which makes me believe that tall skiers avoid them like the plague!
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LOL cunners ... I don't know what's funnier; your description, or my own idea (from trying to figure out the logistics) that the 'T' went between your legs!! Shocked

I've only skied in Austria and haven't seen one of these - thankfully by the sounds of it. What do you do with your poles then - shove them under your arm?
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RichardB, Here's a picture of the T-bars taken in Feb 06. As you look at it the run to the left is a black and the run to the right a red - the are the same steepness, only the black is slightly narrower. Worth doing once or twice but they aren't very long - the run from the top cable car station to the valley is very good though.



snowHead
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Using a T-bar on your own is infinitely preferable to using one with someone you don't know, and even more so if they decide to join you at the last minute without realising that they are 6'5" and you are 5'6", with the result that the bar they've placed comfortably under their back bottom is trying to rip your kidneys out Evil or Very Mad

The T-bars on the glacier at Kaprun go on for ever, which is why they tend to be emptier than the chairs, as mere mortals don't have the thighs of steel required to stay on all the way without wobbling and shaking for 10 minutes when you get to the top.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks Sage, that was a morale booster. rolling eyes

No doubt I'm going to give those runs a try, I'm too determined to allow a T Bar get in my way! snowHead
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
MissRibena, the usual approach is to hold onto the shaft of the T with one hand, and hold your poles together in the other, either nonchalantly, or while trying to hold the end of the T piece to keep it where it should be.

However, it can also be a good strategy to use your poles to beat the other person senseless until they let go, so that you have some chance of making the top of the lift without falling over. Shocked
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 brian
brian
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T-bars are no problem, just relax and ski uphill. As long as you don't have someone with you clinging on for dear life, white knuckle fashion, it's quite pleasant to have a partner. A wee chat on the way up, maybe even a cuddle if you're lucky. wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We also tried T Bars for the first time in Tignes last week, found them very tricky. One recommendation by our instructor was to make sure you pressing into each other's shoulders and that the best way is simply to put your arms around the person you are sharing the lift with Shocked
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
On the few times I go snowboarding there are ALWAYS T-Bars in the resort and the rider I get on with is ALWAYS about a foot shorter than I am, resulting in extremely suspicious-looking bruising to my left inner thigh.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I used T Bars in St Anton during snowboard lessons; most memorably riding up the lift with the instructor who led with the other foot.

It looked like were a couple of dancers...or worse maybe. No problems about falling off though.

You can always choose to ride them by yourself if needs be.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Latchigo, So they will work by yourself? My Swiss friends have said that they will help me with the T bars in resort next February - although I don't there are any in VT from what folks said I might take them up on their offer just so that I have someone I know to share with the first time. I just hope the slope it goes to isn't too steep for me once I'm up there as I think they are one way only wink Mind you one of them in our resort does look terribly steep and goes for a considerable distance. Shocked I do wonder what happens if you fall off it half way up where you might not be near a piste.
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brian wrote:
T-bars are no problem, just relax and ski uphill. As long as you don't have someone with you clinging on for dear life, white knuckle fashion, it's quite pleasant to have a partner. A wee chat on the way up, maybe even a cuddle if you're lucky. wink

LOL, I guess like me you've spent many years using the various T-bars in Scotland but actually they are a complete pain if you happen to be less than standard height (like a kid) or end up heading up with someone who is significantly taller than you - when that happens it's not great. I was reminded once again of how bad they can be in October when on the Tignes glacier and I was joined by someone who must have been around six foot - OUCH!

I had major hassles taking my daughter (then about 6) up the Ptarmigan tow the season before last - we had a lot of tears and she even managed to take me out half way up the tow despite (or perhaps because of!) my having given up on taking her up one the other side of the T and letting her stand in front of me so I could 'push' her all the way. I have to say it's the one major thing that puts me off taking her with me again on any of my trips up north, although Cairngorm might have the most Ts of all the Sottish ski areas - I don't know what the actual numbers are, do you?
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Megamum, ha, I nearly found that out in Tignes last month...it was the first time I had used them, and after wacking myself in the head with the bar on my first attempt (still got on) I had no problem, going up on my own or sharing, even with little kids...until one time when I'd obviously got a bit blase and wasn't holding on too well, one of my skis caught and the bar shot out from behind me Shocked
I managed to cling on with one hand, drag it down and fling my arms over it, clamping it under my armpits !! and stayed like this for the entire rest of the way up, which seemed to take an eternity... Embarassed
but still preferable to falling off and getting back onto the piste, from what I could see - too many huge chunks of ice in the way... wink
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Megamum, Worrying about T bars is most of the problem. Relax. Try not to fight them.

Yes, you can ride them alone if you prefer.
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MissRibena wrote:
LOL cunners ... I don't know what's funnier; your description, or my own idea (from trying to figure out the logistics) that the 'T' went between your legs!! Shocked



You're not the first person to make this mistake. Good news is you did it in a chat forum and not in a T-bar queue. I've seen people with the T between their legs approaching the end of the drag and suddenly realising the error of their ways as they try to work out how to get off at the end
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
In my early days on skis. I found it easier on Ts than on buttons. I gained a reputation amongst my friemds for continually falling of buttons, a reputation which holds some 16 years later Confused
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Megamum, you'll be fine. I agree that finding someone of similar height/build or going alone your first time is probably the best way to get comfortable with them. Just like with buttons (I thought they were called poma's Puzzled or is that a Kiwi thing?), you can let it do all the work and get on with the important business of enjoying the scenery. The big difference is where they engage you. You know the inner-to-rear thigh area that the button engages? Well mentally draw a line from there under your buttocks to your outer thigh - that's where the Tbar engages, it spreads the load! It's like proping against the edge of a desk.

I prefer them to buttons any day of the week. They're far safer and more stable to boot. One tip for when you are sharing is to give a bit more weight to your inside lower buttock - the one next to the shaft ( Embarassed it's sounding a bit rude, don't mean to Embarassed ). I hope you get what I mean. Keep your skis weighted evenly but rest a bit heavier on the inside lower buttock. It really helps with stability, especially on steep bits.
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There are plenty of fasy chair lifts in the rest of Tonale. The Glacier is a bit boring, but worth a look.
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Megamum, Yes, you can use them by yourself. You do really need to hold the end of the T that is furthest away from the shaft then thuogh, to stop it from twisting out from under you (or at least feeling like it is going to).

And yes, they are one way, as with all drag lifts Little Angel
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
try using a T - bar with your kid , i'm 6ft , my son Tom was 6 years old and 3ft nothing. We were using the White Lady T-Bar (red) at Cairngorm in 2005 , i have never felt so much pain, and had the bruises a to prove it. In a sad sort of way I'm glad the lift broke this year (kidding) , but then again with no money to fix it , makes the uplift difficult when the White Lady can be skied, which more imprortantly is normally a sign that Scotland is getting one of its rare good winters when we want all our lifts running.
If using a T-Bar , get someone of similar height who relaxes, or if it is not busy , go up alone.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
RichardB, I have been up that very T-bar of which you speak. It is a real b*tch, it's sooo steep. My mobile rang while I was on it and I was too scared to get it out of my pocket when I got to the top and looked it was Vodaphone advertising snow reports rolling eyes
Yhe run down is lovely though, enjoy!

edit 'cos I can't spell
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ahhh.. Cairngorm T-bars. Fond memories of taking my (then) small son up the T- bars. Think about it - small person’s backside was about my knee level and it doesn't take much to work out why a backward somersault follows any slight error.
Actually I far prefer T-bars to button tows. I snowboard, my partner skis and so I can just lean on him! It is much more relaxing than having to keep my wits about me on a button tow. I also find the dismount on a T-bar so much easier than button tow or sodding chairlift. If I take the bar* at the dismount it is just enough to steady me into a graceful departure rather than a splat.


* If you haven't used a T-bar before, part of the ritual is negotiating with your co-pilot as to which one of you will release the bar in a controlled fashion at the top as it feeds back into the coiled thingy. Otherwise bar wangs up around the cable and the lift goes off for another 10 mins whilst it's sorted ... just remembering why people don't like T- bars!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
negotiating with your co-pilot as to which one of you will release the bar in a controlled fashion at the top as it feeds back into the coiled thingy. Otherwise bar wangs up around the cable and the lift goes off for another 10 mins whilst it's sorted

...good point.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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alex_heney wrote:
Quite a few glaciers only have drag lifts, because they aren't solid enough for anything more.


Thats not the main reason.
The T Bar is the cheapest most efficient form of uphill transport. Because the Glacier is moving they are much cheaper & easier to re-align.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The main advantage of the T-bar is that it has less wind resistance and can operate in marginal weather conditions - higher winds. The T-bar still requires fixed pylons but as the grip is fixed to the wire rope theres less ironmongery at the bottom.
The downside to that is that it doesnt slow down for you and you have to get your positioning and timing right to grab the 'T'
Haven't come across any in France - buts its required usage in Scotland. Agree that you must remember to feed the T back into the box when dismounting before letting go - or it will wrap itself round the bullwheel/downhaul causing chaos.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
maybe time to stop worrying about t bars too much, they are not exactly rocket science are they. soft tarts
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Are there many in Vallandry/Les Arcs (NewSkier is trembling at the thought!)
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Used T-bars for the first time when in Wengen last year. To be honest they were slightly trickier than a button lift to grab because they don't stop but not a big deal. On the other hand I found them easier than a button once moving, even with Skibbette jnr who is less than a quarter of my weight.

In particular, on steep slopes, a t-bar offers support to pull you along while with a button you have to do a death clamp with your thighs to avoid it being ripped out.

I wouldn't recommend that a boarder and skier share a T-bar however.
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Skibb wrote:


I wouldn't recommend that a boarder and skier share a T-bar however.


Why not? Have you tried it?
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For the T-bar virgins; pic of unknown boarder coming up the Coire Cas T-bar (Cairngorm Smile )
Top left of pic you can see the thingy that the rope retracts into

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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think T bars do look dreadful, but then that might be because I haven't tried one yet. I wonder why they don't just do a double button coming off of a a horizontal bar - I can't see why that wouldn't work. B.t.w. in terms of terminology - I know that Poma is popular on here, I'd never seen it used before I logged on here though. My Swiss friends call it a Tellerlift (sp?), they also call a chair lift a 'Seisali' (def. sp?), I think they also have a term for the T bar as well. So for clarity I call them buttons, T bars and chairs (oh and gondolas) and everyone seems to know what I'm on about.

Mind you I did once worry about button lifts, but I'm quite good on them now (famous last words and all that - watch the MK thread tomorrow!!). My Swiss friend has a 7 year old son though and she says that he finds the T bar difficult by himself because he isn't heavy enough to keep it down, he can ride it with his 5 year old sister and between them they keep it down, but the recoil is too much for him alone.
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T-bars are dangerous. The cables are prone to wear and snapping. Nuff said.
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 brian
brian
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roga wrote:
although Cairngorm might have the most Ts of all the Sottish ski areas - I don't know what the actual numbers are, do you?


Let me see ...

Glenshee has 3 on the Cairnwell side (used to be 4 but they swapped the Tiger to buttons) and only 1 on Sunnyside (which has a doubling up poma running beside it).

Lecht has none.

Glencoe has 2 (the top one again has a parallel button but the t-bar track fills quicker so it often runs when the button can't).

Nevis has 3 including the goose which is pretty much the key lift on the mountain.

Cairngorm has at least the remains of 6, but the Fiacaill is practically gone and the White Lady lies in ruins Sad

I'm 6'3" and am regularly on t-bars with my 2 boys. Character building. Toofy Grin rolling eyes

The proper release of the bar (once round the return wheel) seems to be a Scotland only thing. Most continental ones I've seen have the return wheel miles from where the skier gets off so it has time to retract itself.
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