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Glove technique

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
demos, Hurtle, quite!! but I do fear that recognizing them just gives them more oxygen, perhaps if we were to just ignore them.

Now dragging this thread back on topic I have seen a pair of natty little on piste numbers designed for the more lerdy of us on eBay(no im not posting a link so you can all out bid me). Do you think that I am taking a risk purchasing online give the diffrences in sizeing between the Metric and Imperial systems.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have thought of another complication. It is very practical and it stems from my own experience.

The trouble is that when one's hands are out of the gloves and they get cold, the fingers become numb, but not necessarily every one of them to the same degree. This will have an impact on the gloveing technique. Since one is partly handicapped, the functionality of the fingers and ability of using them evenly to pull the gloves on varies. How can we either prevent this, compensate it or adjust to these circumstances? What if the recommended angulations throughout the movement are not as ideal as they should be - what if they are totally wrong? Will this have an effect, provided that one still succeeds in gloveing, on the efficacy that the gloves protect the hands? Howabout the fit? Even if the glove-fitter would have provided you with the perfectly fitted and aligned gloves, the wrong gloveing technique due to sub-optimal circumstances somehow impairs the functionality? Puzzled
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Reading the thread again, the previous page was hilarious Laughing
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Something that continues to leave me aghast is the dearth of professional advice available to the average snowsports enthusiast when selecting his or her preferred glove.

I was appalled, on one recent shopping trip, to overhear a shop assistant in a well-known chain of wintersports stores simply ask a prospective glove purchaser "are you small, medium or large?" and direct them to the appropriate stack of gloves.

There was no discussion of the customer's natural wrist flexion, no consideration of the inter-digit spread ratio, no thought given to the force under which the glove should naturally release -- and perhaps most worryingly, NOT EVEN A MENTION of the importance of a thorough palm concavity analysis. Without these things, as well we all know, the unsuspecting skier or boarder risks not only discomfort but a multitude of chronic and acute difficulties as the wrist, arm and shoulder joints are subjected to tremendous stresses, working overtime to compensate for the carelessly fitted glove.

It's no joke. In Les Arcs last year a friend of mine was left unable to lift his pint glass as a result of just this kind of wilful ignorance amongst our retailers. In the end our holiday was ruined - we were forced to drink only in those bars with a ready supply of straws. Evil or Very Mad
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Frosty the Snowman, please! This is a serious thread. If we were wanting you to be amused then this would be in the apres zone. Please stick to disrupting threads over there in future rolling eyes

Anyway....

Gilberts Fridge, you should never buy gloves online. Any saving that you make will just be lost when you get to resort and have to go and see the local glovefitter for adjustments. Save your cash, and go and see a reputable glovefitter in the UK. It will work out cheaper in the long run.

demos, many inexperienced people make the mistake that you have described. Because they didn;t get the gloves fitted properly, they find them uncomfortable and then take them off during the day. A properly fitted pair will do you all day. You may want to loosen off the velcro cuff when stopping for lunch, but as you righty say, taking them off does cause camplications.
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snojito, Shocked Sad

It's awful....but true.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Elizabeth B, can I ask, are these "camplications" you mention above when the wrist in question, unsupported by the glove, just hangs limply?

If so I believe I've observed them. In my experience they seem to occur with disproportionate frequency amongst members of the lurex one-piece fraternity.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
snojito, yes. That's right. I too notice them in often in the skiers with one-piece suits.

I'm told that there is a tendancy for many (if not all) snowboarders to suffer from this condition, which is why you'll find many snowboard gloves have a stiff piece of plastic in them to keep the hand/wrist in the correct place.
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Elizabeth B, oooooh, you are awful..... ( Laughing Laughing Laughing )
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Has anyone given any consideration to the differences in glove technique employed by racers as against that of recreational skiers? Being only a recreational skier myself, and one of only intermediate ability at that, I don't feel qualified (yet again) to offer any opinions, so maybe one of the racers on this board would like to tell us in which ways the glove technique of racers does and should differ. One point is obvious (and maybe I'm jumping the gun here, the thread on mittens is yet to be initiated) namely that racers never wear mittens. Why is that? I would hazard a guess that this is because they are having to make fine adjustments to their equipment right up to the moment when they are poised at the starting gate, and in the interests of speed, have to do this with their gloves on. Presumably this also means that glove fitting for them has to be in a different league - real finesse of finger movement must surely have to be maintained. I haven't noticed any racing gloves in the shops (but then I haven't been looking) but was wondering if they are particularly thin and, if so, how warmth is achieved.

Any tips which the real experts out there can give us, adaptable to recreational skiing, will be as welcome as ever. Thank you.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snojito, WHY is it that, in this forum, matters always, but always degenerate into the trading of personal insults? I am absolutely fed up with being sniped at, so please lay off. Just because I wear a one-piece suit - not lurex, incidentally - does not mean that I can't ski (quite a few of my instructors have praised my efforts highly) or that I am, as you are so obviously implying, limp-wristed. If you want to make funny (in your opinion) personal remarks about other people, go and join your like-minded fellows on Apres. Evil or Very Mad
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hurtle, I beleive there is a self help group called "1PA" that may be able to help you.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Frosty the Snowman, What's that? If it's yet another dig, I don't want to know.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Why are gloves only ever 2-piece? Why can't you get a 1-piece glove?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ray Zorro, like a muff?

Dragons' Den here we come.....
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ray Zorro, Oh for heavens sake, this has already been discussed by Guvnor in his post on the very first page when he addresses the issue of a long peice of elastic attaching two independant gloves effectivly making a one piece.

Its bad enough all the thread derails by the "funnier" posters but please read the thread first rolling eyes rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hurtle, please may I assure you I had no intention of causing offence. I'd apologise but, as you advised earlier in the thread,
Quote:
There is an honourable tradition of never accepting apologies on BZK, and only rarely of making them. There are standards to be maintained, you know.

Far be it from me to compound my error with any further breaches of etiquette. Embarassed
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snojito, you know nothing.
How many pairs of gloves do you own? I'll bet it's less than me.
How many lessons have you had in how to put them on? Well? WELL?
I've put on gloves in places you've never been to.
I've been taught BY the best.

Elizabeth B, you're so right. You're always right, and that Hurtle woman knows nothing.
Why can't more people be like you, Elizabeth B.
If everyone on here was taught to put on gloves your way, we would all be the best in the universe.
Some people don't agree with you, but I don't care what they say, they are wrong. Always. As soon as I see their user name replying, the first thing I think is "is this the wrongest person in the world?", then I take that attitude, and read their (obviously wrong) post in a completely unbiased way (know it's bound to be wrong) and reply by telling them how wrong they are and how right I am, making copious references to how wonderful you are. Who cares that I said absolutely nothing of positive value, I managed to make them look small and feel stupid, and if that's not what this is all about, I really don't know what it is.
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Wear The Fox Hat, What universe are you from .............. Cool
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Elizabeth B, I would ask you to moderate WTFH's post, which is IMO way out of order.... In fact you seem to be as bad as the rest of them, so you probably won't.....How would you like it, by the way, if I made snide remarks about your ski-wear?.......


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 30-11-07 12:18; edited 1 time in total
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Do the various Zookeepers custom fit gloves? Can I get handbeds for mine?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hurtle wrote:
I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong, I’m wrong...


Hurtle, see, you're wrong, why can't you just agree with LizB?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle, you're just jealous of my ski wear rolling eyes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Elizabeth B, Why on earth would I be jealous?
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Wear The Fox Hat, you're right of course. I feel small and look stupid.

I only have one pair of gloves, and I'm entirely self-taught. An instructor once told me that I don my gloves with supreme confidence, but with little or no thought for style or grace. In fact, she said, I'm a danger to myself and others.

Hopefully though, now I'm on snowHead 's, there may be some hope for my eventual redemption after all?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hurtle, the point you raise about the upgrade of equipments from beginners gloves to intermediates, experts and finally racer or whole mountain/off piste, is worth discussing. Indeed there has to be differences in technique. Just consider skis or boots. For example, I am confident that the stiffness of an expert glove (why snowboarders have plastic supports even at beginner level is beyond me) requires years of trial and error to be used effectively. Classes, such as proposed by Elizabeth B, should probably help in developing the right skill set.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I think maybe now is the time for me to put a proposal to admin regarding instruction at the MSB. I'm sure we could come to a suitable arrangement whereby I offer lessons to snowHeads who want to improve their technique.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Elizabeth B, Wiil that be group or private lessons and if I book I want to be with you and no one else Confused Unless of course the snow is really good and then I'll cancel in the last minute snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I am so inspired by this topic that I will try a matrix of most of the key situations as a flow. Everyone can just start to imagine the complications that may arise from the various combinations of these situations. A good flowchart could come handy, so to say, if one need either to visit a glove fitter or plan lessons.

1. Skier or snowboarder?
2. Amputated or not?
3. Left or right handed?
4. Glove skills - beginner, confirmed, expert, racer, off-piste, park?
5. Glove conditions - on piste/off piste, powder, cold, warm, in the hotel?
6. Strong or weak wrist angulation abilities irrespective of

Then, when buying the gloves:
1. A pair or two gloves?
2. Long or short gloves?
3. Length of fingers?
4. Width and concave of the palm?
5. Lenght of nails?

I am sure there are lots of other aspects to consider still. In any case, based on the previous mails, this is a relatively accurate recap of the crucial matters which have caught our attention.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I am amazed that traditional methods of hand-warming are being ignored in this thread. Those who forget history are condemned to have it repeated to them... every 6 months... by me.

When I first skied at Loch Frozemagoolies in 1963 - and won the coveted Glove Club gold medal, it was for my ability to get both hands inside still warm Ptarmigans in less than a minute. Later when I went to the alps - I learned the traditional Austrian method of using a freshly dead Marmotte as a single piece hand-warmer. This had the advantage that the dripping trail of blood allowed easy recovery of the body of anyone buried in an Avalanche.

Elizabeth B, I think the DHO probably offer Glove Instruction?

WTFH my instructor is bigger, faster and better than your instructor. And he says I know more than most instructors do. NehNeh NehNeh NehNeh
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
stoatsbrother, I should not parttake in some kind of braggin competition, but now that you said about the more traditional handwarming methods. Obviously, the following is slightly off-topic and also might cause bodily damage to parts other than hands. Alternatively to gloveing (or gloving), one could try opening the front zipper of trousers/bibs and putting both hands in between the legs. The bodyparts which can be reached from there are amongst the last ones to go under 37 centigrades in temperature and therefore might provide some help in case that the more modern gloving does not succees in extreme conditions.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
demos, Well done, that's a great start. Can we add 'liner' gloves, please? Though, thinking about it, that subject probably merits its own matrix, given that techniques vary considerably as between inner and outer wear, depending on whether one uses handbeds or other orthotic devices. Dear me, what a minefield. No wonder there are so few people on this forum who are gold standard practitioners. (Do we know who these are, by the way? I see quite a few posters admitting to purple standard, but they all seem to talk of gold standard being pretty much unattainable. As I say, I'm not surprised.)

Don't know about anyone else, but I use silk inner gloves. I know that some on here would frown on that, and would only use finest quality (not mid-weight, 'fine' is the only acceptable sort, I gather) quality merino Kiwiskins. Unfortunately cost once again comes into play for the impecunious recreational skier: those fancy merino ones are only available mail order from New Zealand, and at regrettably extortionate prices. rolling eyes
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
demos,
Quote:

The bodyparts which can be reached from there are amongst the last ones to go under 37 centigrades in temperature and therefore might provide some help in case that the more modern gloving does not succees in extreme conditions.

Yes, that's all very nice and fine, but what about us laydeez?
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Hurtle,

ummm - good point. perhaps "find an agreeable partner with suitably capacious trousers"? it would be a great way to meet people, if nothing else, and more or less immediately provide conversational opportunity.... Little Angel


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 30-11-07 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hurtle, good stuff. Liner gloves is really interesting. On the same token, we should separate the shell and soft shell, leather and other materials, because when perfection is the objective, attention to detail is the key! Little Angel

The debate on inner gloves is also important because it practically doubles the trouble. Instead of having a pair of gloves, one has a pair and two gloves. Or the other way around. The finest quality is necessary probably, otherwise the technique will suffer and style goes down the dumper (or dumber?). Cost is a matter, but as the Zookeepers point out on boot debates, quality does cost, and fitting is the way forward for better comfort.
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snojito, Wow, now there's a thought.... Toofy Grin

demos, I know you're right. Unfortunately. I am trying to convince myself that my poor technique doesn't actually warrant the best quality liners though, as the ZKeepers are also always saying, the more expensive - sorry, I mean better made and more expertly fitted - the equipment, the better the results. They have an annoying habit of being right too.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hurtle, one of the few actually known to be gold standard is snowballs. Does that tell you anything? Laughing (only purple meself Shocked )
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yoda, if indeed you are purple, then I'd suggest you book into my glove clinic. You are obviously wearing your garments too tight and restricting the blood flow rolling eyes
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Snojto wrote:
"find an agreeable partner with suitably capacious trousers"

Hurtle wrote:
snojito, Wow, now there's a thought.... Toofy Grin I warrant the best quality fitted equipment,


well go for it - I am sure the rep on your next freshtracks holiday could organise something...

Yoda that's the spirit - the hunt for Hurtle's Handwarmers has begun Toofy Grin


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 30-11-07 15:46; edited 1 time in total
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Yoda, I think you may have misunderstood my question. I'm aware that snowball is a gold standard skier. Does he have a similar glove qualification?
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