 Poster: A snowHead
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@Moss, @ski, I had no idea the Meidjo binding had an "alpine mode" with the heel piece, I like the concept as it can tour with low tech pins, has brakes and a rudimentary release plus being laterally stiff and more flexible than NTN fore aft. Long term if I decide tele is for me I would most likely go down this route but new boots and binders is a big commitment at this point (my old setup sat collecting dust for 11 years  ). I have 75mm, touring and alpine boots and not sure can justify another pair  BUT having a single set of skis/boots/skins that can do everything is very tempting...
How do you find they ski in pure alpine mode? If I was abroad with clients I could see using your setup for teaching alpine and then with a flick of a switch be able to have fun and practice tele in my off time.
also, you mention you have both G3 and 7TM. what differences do you notice in how they ski?
what skis do you have with your 7TM binders?
@ski I noticed Jaz was on the Meidjo but guessing is a sponsored athlete and gets freebies. Good to hear about the lateral stiffness, an important consideration for me. also noticed she was on Scarpa boots and not the WC Crispi ones, did she mention boots at all?
Any thoughts on what would be the stiffest 2 pin NTN boots?
I am assuming that 2 pin will work with Rottefella rental NTN binders ?
It would seem to me that the Meidjo binding is superior to NTN and I have read a few horror stories about lack of release on the NTNs.
I have discounted Bomber as US based and potential support issues.. They do look bullet proof but the Meidjo is for me clearly better and if I bin my 75mm boots will go with Meidjo, good shout.
Hammerheads/Vices vs 7TM - for me having some form of release is fairly essential, brakes are handy as well for piste skiing..
found some older 7TM's without the bigger spring for €159 which is tempting and will be slightly less active than the ones i hired...
My option 3 would not involve having to buy new boots and I am still contemplating as a lower cost commitment to get a full tele setup.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here’s some food for thought, with my setup for a combination of Alpine; Dynafit & NTN-tele bindings…
I’d previously been teleing on 7TM 75mm bindings, but last year swapped to NTN with the 22Designs Outlaw-X & Scarpa TX-Pro tele-boots.
However, the holy grail as far as I was concerned (with the weight restrictions for flying with kit for different disciplines) was to have one ski QKed for multiple bindings so I could just carry different boots/bindings and swap as required
So I now have a pair of skis QKed for 1:Alpine, 2:Dynafit AT (Plum), 3:NTN-tele (Outlaw-X ... needed to mount using a riser with captive-nuts due to a slight hole overlap: I can go into more detail if you're interested...  )
In addition, the even holier holy-grail has been to use a single boot for skiing with both the NTN & Tech bindings
If you’re hoping to use the Meidjo with low-tech heels, as mentioned earlier only Crispi still do Tech heel inserts in NTN boots– the earlier TX-Pros did have the inserts, but the ones I got last year no longer had them. (see this article for the reason why https://www.earnyourturns.com/33505/scarpa-scott-drop-heel-inserts-on-ntn-boots/ )
However I picked up a set of tech inserts from Jon Coster (thanks Jon) and retro fitted them to the TX-Pros, with the requirement to shim under the bellows to prevent boot-flex solved using a sliding AFD plate from an old pair of Salomon bindings. I can report they skiid perfectly in the couloirs off the Verdons Sud in La Plagne last week… 
I use a dedicated lighweight touring rig for specific alpine touring weeks, but the above setup gives the option for teleing and skiing alpine & occcasional short tours in AT mode when resort based, allowing me to fly with just one-ski; one-boot & 2 bindings
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@geoffers, good food for thought... I am curious as to why you didn't go with Meidjo / Crispi last year when you swapped over from 75mm and 7TM?
Your set up looks cool but if I am reading all the information correctly that would give an "off the shelf" similar solution to what you have..
ps I really like plum guides but am seriously tempted by the Shifts for my new touring (with AT boots) and all mountain setup (with alpine race boots)
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@skimottaret,
| Quote: |
| I am curious as to why you didn't go with Meidjo / Crispi ... |
Mainly a price thing I think (and I hadn't considered the tech heel solution at the time) - I got good end-of-season deals on the boots (AlpinStore) & bindings (Sport Conrad), plus I liked the reviews of the Outlaws etc...
| Quote: |
| ....gives an "off the shelf" similar solution to what you have.. |
The meidjo plus tech-heel solution is always there if you want to lock your heels when teleing (mine needs a complete swap of bindings) - however the NTN setup is so solid that you can ski alpine-turns in reasonably steep & deep conditions without really needing the heels locked.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@geoffers, cool, there are so many options with this stuff and I think I need to think it through a bit. Good to know that the NTN stuff is solid enough to alpine on in soft snow. I haven't quite got that far yet with my skill level
Do the Outlaws release in a fall, I am majorly concerned with this. My cable bindings came off once in a twisting fall and didnt on an over the handlebars high side which broke the skis but not me...
To be honest if I was going to do any skinning I couldn't see doing it on tele gear so my Shifts with AT boots will probably work out fine. Need to consider how important the heel tech piece will be but I like the sound of the Crispi boots as they are stiff. I very much prefer a stiff boot...
Reading on another forum on the alpine heel option for Meidjo "The Rando heel is only made for help the skier go down when he is tired. The spring Din is about 3/4 (30 to 40 kg), and can not be compared to a ski touring heel whose springs are much more powerful." So kinda pointless as far as I am concerned so gives more options when looking at boots..
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@geoffers, Wow .. that looks fun  I bow to your geekiness
@skimottaret, Rottefella Freeride, Freedom and 22D Outlaw all have an NTN (underboot, second heel) attachment. This will release at some point, but is not DIN certified. The Meidjo and 22D Lynx have this and a Low Tech toe piece which will also have a release -- again not DIN certified.
As far as the Meidjo skis, Jaz was very positive, because the toe is held really firmly (more that the Freeride). Jaz wants to win, if the Meidjo was not as good as the Freeride she would not use it. Actually it's better. She's going to have a go on my Outlaws tomorrow so will report back on what she thinks.
As far as an Alpine heel goes. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF !!!!!!
I can certainly ski Alpine to a reasonably high level on Outlaws, certainly good enough for demos to recreational skiers (we've been doing Central Theme all week remember).
I think (assuming the spacing works out) QKs for Shifts and Meidjos or Outlaws, with new boots (sorry) is the way to go....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@geoffers, I thought that was what the spacer was for, I did something similar 12 years ago with a VIST interchange plate which I could swap between tele and alpine binders. It worked out but was quite heavy and complex and I didnt get the use out of it as I thought I would.
I do like the idea of possibly being able to use the Crispis with shift bindings for AT as well as Tele on Meidjos. That way One ski/ One boot for tele and AT and for my off piste focussed set up and bin the Titan AT boots..
Will the crispi's work with Shifts or is this a dumb idea?
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@skimottaret,
| Quote: |
| Will the crispi's work with Shifts or is this a dumb idea? |
The big problem with bellowed boots used in Alpine bindings is that they flex in the middle and effectively shorten, which could cause pre-release at the heel. Hence the need for a shim under the bellows.
Whether or not the Shift AFD plate would work effectively as a shim is an unknown - I guess the manufacturer wouldn't recommend it for reasons of potential litigation  , but that's how I got over the bellow flex in my set up so I guess it would be up to you...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Have looked at the mounting templates to see if putting two sets of QK holes for Meidjo and Shift as was worried that the ski would be like swiss cheese and risk pull out. @spyderjon in his usual extremely helpful manner had a look as well and would NOT recommend for me as I am hard on gear , heavy with long boots and thought the forces involved and the closeness of the mounting holes wouldn't work out so my Option 3 is not so cunning after all...
Gonna go with two pairs of skis Touring and Tele with dedicated skis/ binders but will QK to improve surface area and avoid pull outs. Just bought a pair of Kastle MX84's and will whack tele binders on those bad boys.
@ski I have decided to chuck the old 75mm boots as you suggested and will invest in new two pin NTN's so now down to picking a binding Meidjo or Outlaws. Leaning towards the Meidjo as the reading I have done seems to indicate a smoother active flex, stiffer laterally, brake option and with toe pins will tour loads better if I ever get to the standard of trusting myself off piste on tele gear 
Hope week two has started well !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jaz liked my Outlaws, but reckoned Meidjos ski better. The Tech Toe gives a stronger hold, so better edge control. The Outlaw is true step in, and has a tour mode too. I think both are about as robust as each other. If you are thinking of changing to Crispi boots, suggest you try to test them first, as they ski differently to Scarpa. The sun came out at last today, so we could actually see what we have been skiing on.
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@ski, Cheers, I had pretty much decided on Meidjo's but that sealed the deal. Tried on some Scott Voodoo's (horribly soft plastic and poor fit for me) and Scarpa Tx Pros which fit great. Getting closer to actually having a new setup
@geoffers, If you could advise on how much agro it was in adding the rear tech insert? I am very tempted to go with the Scarpas as I think at my stage of tele they will be better for me than the Crispi's as per Ski's suggestion. I might get a pair of Crispi to check fit and see if they would be okay as an AT boot when used with Shift binders.
Does anyone know if shifts will actually work with 2-pin NTN boots?
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You know it makes sense.
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@skimottaret, I think @geoffers, has some good thoughts on an alpine heel. I don't think tele boots would replace a dedicated alpine touring boot -- they will be too soft.
You will find with an NTN binding that if you wind the springs up, the heel hold is almost Alpine any way ,as in I can carve either in Tele or Parallel with not much difficulty. Jump turns on the steeps if needed are quite managable too (on Hammerheads, Superloops and NTN)
Also, depending on the touring you want to do, boot crampons will fit much better on an alpine (rigid) sole than a tele boot. It's definitely not fun to have on come off when scrambling up to that peak that you saw from the pass.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@skimottaret "also, you mention you have both G3 and 7TM. what differences do you notice in how they ski?
what skis do you have with your 7TM binders? "
There's a slight difference but not massive - the G3 Targa bindings are on an old pair of Rossi Bandit X, the 7TMs I switch between B1s and B2s. Difficult to do a direct comparison as they are also on different skis. I did put QKs in some B3s but hardly used them (perhaps my technique was at fault but it felt the width of the ski was too much to engage the edge on piste).
Just for you I (of course) skied the G3 targa/bandit x at Chill Factore the other evening and really enjoyed it. Yes, there is a touch more delicacy and balance about the movement, the meidjos give more active resistance and feel more precise (I've got both sets of springs fitted so they give more active resistance), but another variable is the boot - my 75mm boots are 3 buckle garmonts, whereas the Crispi evo wc are much stiffer.
I was pleasantly surprised on the G3s though; I thought there would be a lot less control, but had real fun on them. More testing and comparison required
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ski, Got my badge through today, hopefully a good omen for you in Tux
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skimott do you find that zipfit work well in tele boots? Which ones do you use? My intuitions are toast and need replacing.
On bindings, I haven't been through the whole thread but my take is this. 75mm is dead. For resort and occasional sidecountry: outlaw X wins hands down.
For out and out touring I use a tts variant. I have a few different versions but I like them because they are simple, don't break and for long uphill I can take the heel pieces off which takes the binding weight down to about 250g per ski. They also release (not DIN but would come off in an avalanche). My current TTS uses the same mount as the outlaw so I can go back and forth with inserts.
I do think that the lynx looks good as an off the peg tech option. Early versions of the Meidjo binding put me off. There was not enough travel in the springs so when they bottomed out something had to break. From what I can tell this has been remedied by beefing things up and putting even more screws into the ski (!) but they are not for me.
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@BenA, I haven't tried yet but will test out putting in Zipfits after I finally decide on which tele boot and purchase em.. I have used Zipfit Garas in my Dynafit Titans for a few years now and find they help with foot fit and work fine for touring but don't know if they would hold up in telemark mode with all the bending in the toe box. I take mine in and out of my race boots daily and they held up well for several seasons.
My reading on Meidjo is that now in the third gen (2.1) they are stable and have addressed all the known issues so I went with them. Was considering Outlaw but felt Meidjo offered a few more benefits to me...
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@Moss,
| Quote: |
| based, so far on a few days in the Alps and several trips to Chill Factore |
Are you planning to go to the Tele Festival/Champs at Chill Factore the end of June http://www.mccsc.org.uk/pages/events.htm ?
Friends ski there regularly so I'm planning to head up this year
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@BenA,
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do you find that zipfit work well in tele boots
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Did not work well for me --- mucked up the flex of the boot (TX-Comp) too much.
@skimottaret, Yup all OK here, passed. Next stop L3
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| geoffers wrote: |
@Moss,
Are you planning to go to the Tele Festival/Champs at Chill Factore the end of June http://www.mccsc.org.uk/pages/events.htm ?
Friends ski there regularly so I'm planning to head up this year |
Yes - hopefully see you there, should be good fun. Anyone else thinking of doing it, I would recommend - and there's an 'early bird discount' if you book before the end of May.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Moss,
| Quote: |
| ...hopefully see you there... |
Weekend all booked up now - I'm staying in the Premier Inn Fri/Sat nights: over the road from Chill Factore so have got a spare bed in the room if anyone wants to share costs
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Went to Telemark Only at Schilthorn, Muerren, Switzerland last weekend. Brilliant event over 4 days skiing and daily apres ski apero included.
Although last day snow stormed out and mountain shut. So skinned up to find 40cm fresh snow. Just great!!
Multiple ski/ binding set ups to test. Approx 350 skiers of all nationalities and standards.
https://telemark-only.com/en/Info/Welcome
Phillipe, M equipment, was there and had dinner with him one night. Amazingly he was a snowboarder and as an engineer, decided to design a telemark binding, so learnt to telemark.
Anyway, I have M2.1, fitted last November to Elan Ripstick 96. Great combination, and Scott Voodoo boots. I asked Phillipe about the heel fitting and he said to put the inserts into the back of the boots where there is black insert.
Also indicated he was working on a new binding.
I put more teflon tape on the ski in place of the small piece supplied. Also put it on the ridged "snow cutter". Used by catering industry for vacuum sealers and sold on eBay - £3/metre.
M2.1 has 2 spring system unlike many/all others. The forward pressure springs and a small spring to release the rear boot grips, DIN settings.
I've now skied 16 weeks on the set up and used alpine jump turns on steep narrow sections without issue. Also did the Mürren Inferno on M2.1/Elan.
Next event:
https://mobile.facebook.com/pg/FONNATelemarkCamp2019/about/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0
Midnight sun skiing 21-24 June on Fonna glacier.
Might try to get to Manchester.
Then GB Championships in Alps 11-23 Jan 2020. Simply brilliant event, the best instruction out there for all levels and very reasonable cost - approx £900 for full board, lift pass, 6+ days instruction from complete novice to world cup team and candidates. Transport extra. You won't be disappointed. And a chance for anyone to win a GB Championships medal!!
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| Quote: |
I put more teflon tape on the ski in place of the small piece supplied. Also put it on the ridged "snow cutter". Used by catering industry for vacuum sealers and sold on eBay - £3/metre.
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Can you put up a photo? I have read a bit about people sticking tape on but cant get my head around it...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks , my new binders turning up next week and will apply as per your setup... not planning on any touring but good to know..
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Poster: A snowHead
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Snow will get trapped underneath the binding in normal telemarking, especially if is damp/wet snow. Not just when touring.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ahh of course, what am I thinking. My third generation bindings still need to add some duct tape to make em work. Gotta love telemarking. 
Thanks for the link, have ordered a bit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Right so getting closer, Crispi boots didnt fit at all, for future readers I have a narrow low volume foot and the Crispi's were the highest volume boot I tried on and had an almost straight heel pocket. my heel lifted up and off the footbed with barely any movement. Also found the strap/buckly across the top of the foot uncomfortable and crushed my instep. If you are considering this boot make sure to try em on...
Ended up buying the Scarpa's at Bartletts and had the stock liners heat moulded with some old footbeds. Great fit and has an unusual option with the ability to set / adjust the forward lean when in ski mode. I prefer a fairly upright boot so will play around with this.
@colinstone, taped up the snow cutter and will get the Meidjo's installed shortly and taped up as per your helpful photo.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@skimottaret, I think you'll need to test them at Hemel
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ski, definitely,,, should have em all sorted in a few weeks and will let you know.. Be cool to get a little tele club going again
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@skimottaret,
| Quote: |
Be cool to get a little tele club going again
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My thoughts exactly
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Hi ... are there any meets or events planned for Hemel ?
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@limegreen1, Not just now... When @skimottaret, has his new skis sorted we'll arrange something. I have some skis I need to get to Hemel so if you fancied a session sooner?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Im back mid June so will keep in touch ... Looking forward to getting back to it after missing two seasons !
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FAQ
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