 Poster: A snowHead
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Some Austrian politicians are calling for winter tyres and chains to become a legal requirement in Austria during the winter
Following various crashes and a lot of people getting stuck over night in sub zero temperatures some Austrian politicians are calling for winter tyres and chains to become a legal requirement in Austria during the winter. In one incident a foreign truck driver with summer tyres and no chains who was having trouble getting traction was requested not to try and move his vechicle until the emergency services arrived. He ignored this and in an attempt to get moving he slide sideways across the carriagway and blocked the autobahn. Many were stuck for up to 14 hours and stranded overnight in sub zero temperatures. This included mothers who were on their way home at ca 5:00 pm with children, petrol/diesel ran out in many cars.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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truck drivers are tossers... I know they have time constraints but they are always blocking the roads round here when the weather turns bad... they should no they can't drive when it is icy. The French police try and stop trucks hitting the autoroutes when the weather turns bad stocking them in car-parks but there are always some Servian drivers in clapped out Dacia trucks who think they can get through.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Slightly off topic - but have been seriously looking at buying Winter Tyres this year.
Any recommendations as to where to buy?
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DB, I thought/was told winter tyres were a legal requirement from 1st Nov (or before if snowing) until Easter. Was I mis-informed or is it regional laws? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boris wrote: |
Slightly off topic - but have been seriously looking at buying Winter Tyres this year.
Any recommendations as to where to buy? |
For outright choice I reckon this is the best place BUT check that they have them in stock before ordering online. I rang to find out that alothough showing online, they couldnt get them in at all.....! However prices are good and easy to get them fitted at a local trusted tyre place
http://www.mytyres.co.uk/
Others
http://www.pneus-online.co.uk/
Nokian UK importer:
Tyreco Trading Ltd.
Unit 7, Hackhurst Lane
Hackhurst Industrial Estate
East Sussex
BN27 4BR Lower Dicker (Nr Hailsham)
Tel. +44 (0)1323 844 600
Fax. +44 (0) 1323 844 125
email: tyreco@talk21.com
Cheers
David
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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E bay has lots of winter tyres at the mo 
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| flangesax wrote: |
| DB, I thought/was told winter tyres were a legal requirement from 1st Nov (or before if snowing) until Easter. Was I mis-informed or is it regional laws? |
Who told you?
I've heard it strongly recommended by an ÖAMTC spokesman on the radio that winter tyres should be on Nov to Easter but not a legal requirement for cars.
| Quote: |
Winterreifenpflicht so gut wie fix
Die Winterausrüstungspflicht für Pkws ist schon so gut wie fix. Heute Vormittag haben sich die zuständigen Minister und die Verkehrssprecher von SPÖ und ÖVP auf eine Gesetzesänderung geeinigt. Die neue Vorschrift könnte schon ab 1. Jänner gelten. |
http://www.orf.at/
Rough Translation = The obligation of winter equipment (Winter Tyres and chains) for cars is as good as fixed. This morning the responsible Ministers and the traffic speakers of SPOe and OEVP (ruling political parties) agreed on a law change. This new regulation could come into force from 1. Jan.
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DB, What to they call winter tyres? Do they have to have the snowflake/mountain symbol on them or just the M+S markings? Also I'm wondering if the rule will apply to little trailers behind cars.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Proper Winter tyres have the snowflake mountain symbol. Not sure about trailers though I'll ask around.
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DB, just a local - no-one of authority, but they said there was a fine for not having them on! Doesnt matter - my car is still bust and sitting in a garage with its summer tyres on!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| Proper Winter tyres have the snowflake mountain symbol |
I agree completely and wouldn't use any without that marking for winter (now). My question was perhaps ill phrased, I meant to ask about the letter of the law rather than the intent. I get the impression that many people think it is ok to use all season M+S tyres. During the winter, will these become illegal , or is only summer tyres that will become illegal?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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anyone know if this applies in Italy as we've hired a car for february driving from milan malpensa to claviere. would a hire company put winter tyres on at request?
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Sorry daft question I'm sure but an M&S tyre, which seems to be all I can find in UK, isn't a Winter Tyre is it?
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You know it makes sense.
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Boris, no, I think it needs a snowflake or a mountain logo or both! have a Google!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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boredsurfin, Google kept bringing me back to here 
Other sites did seem to insist on snowflake symbol - which I can't find for UK suppliers. Not surprisingly as little demand
I fully take the points about stopping etc, but as not legal requirement in France - am I that badly off using good all season tyres and chains when required?
I'm tempted to move to M&S as they can be used all year and are going to be better in snow?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Boris,
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I'm tempted to move to M&S as they can be used all year and are going to be better in snow?
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My Xtrail came with M+S tyres as standard. AFAIK winter tyres should only be used when the temperature is less than +7c
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| truck drivers are tossers... I know they have time constraints but they are always blocking the roads round here when the weather turns bad... they should no they can't drive when it is icy. The French police try and stop trucks hitting the autoroutes when the weather turns bad stocking them in car-parks but there are always some Servian drivers in clapped out Dacia trucks who think they can get through. |
Skiers are tossers...... I know they want to have fun, but why do they have to drive to resort in the bad weather, why don't they just go back to work instead of blocking up the roads.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boris, mytyres, pneus-online and etyres all sell tyres that will have the snowflake & mountain symbol on them. I know that some will call an M+S tyre a winter tyre and some will not. This
| Quote: |
| Austria - The use of winter tyres is not mandatory in Austria, although their use can be enforced through road signs. In particularly snowy areas drivers have two options; either use winter tyres or fit snow chains around the car's summer tyres. All-season tyres can be accepted as winter tyres if they carry the M+S mark and have at least 4mm of tread. Any tyre with a tread depth of less than 4mm is regarded as a summer tyre. Snow chains may be used when the motorist deems them necessary. In addition chains canbe made compulsory in certain regions. Spikes can be used with cars that weigh up to 3.5 tonnes and speed limits are enforced for these vehicles. |
from here is the reason for my question. IMV go with snowflake & mountain symbol since they have to meet performance criteria rather than just be a certain pattern
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
All-season tyres can be accepted as winter tyres if they carry the M+S mark and have at least 4mm of tread.
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That's the important bit IMO - as can use M&S tyres all year round.
As has been stated elsewhere is very difficult to get true winter tyres in the UK and for my one trip a year to France, of which the last 10 miles MAY be snowy, of dubious benefit. Always have chains but have only used them once in 10 years of going.
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shoogly,
Last year we agreed to hire a car to go from Milan to Arraba with winter tyres (and chains). Hire was changed at 3 days out to a bergamo pickup due to fog at heathrow. Hire car at bergamo did not have either chains or winter tyres. A lot of argueing next morning with the hire company got a set of chains out of them. Woman at the hire company said no one in Italy used winter tyres!! Which was of course a blatant lie (or she was very stupid), but there wasn't a lot we could do. Fortunatley neither the chains or the winter tyres were needed on the days we used the car.
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Boris, Have a look at the manufactures websites, the online companies don't always list whether a tyre has the symbol or not. For example the Nokian WR does have it but there is no mention here. They can be used all year round and yet have passed the severe snow service requirements.
DB, I've read that thread before  . My question was solely on the law. I note from Boris's link (for Germany)
| Quote: |
| Both winter tyres and M&S tyres can be considered to be “suitable” for wintery conditions. When driving during the winter season (approx. Nov–Mar) full winter tyres will allow optimum performance in low temperatures and are likely to perform best on roads covered in snow and ice. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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peura, I think it is a case that with Winter Tyres you're ok, with M&S tyres you may be ok, but could be judged not to be.
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Personally I wouldn't take the risk and would use tyres with a snowflake and mountain symbol in the winter. Having seen what a difference they make I use them even in the UK, there doesn't seem to be much compromise for me. However, many talk about using all-season or M+S tyres and I'm just trying to work out whether or not they would be breaking the law next year in Austria (or this year in Germany). I'm beginning to think that it will take a few court cases to work out since I'm not sure the law has defined clearly what is a suitable tyre.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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thats because they don't make any old snow tyres, they are M&S high silica compound, deep treaded, hard side walled snowtyres coved in delicious zig-zag sipes that cut into that achingly white, virgin snow LOL
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.... and I suppose you could take them back after one trip and claim they didn't fit
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It looks like the following will be the legal requirement for cars during the winter from 01.01.08 in Austria .....
a) Winter tyres. I'm informed that M&S tyres with min 4mm tread are currently considered as winter tyres although certain motoring organisations are pushing for only tyres with the snow flake accepted (which I agree with).
or
b) Summer tyres but carrying chains.
Notes
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1. With a) you may be required to use chains on certain mountain roads too. M&S tyres don't give the same performance on ice/compacted snow as true winter tyres with the snowflake symbol.
2. b) is the cheaper solution but the disadvantages of b) are
(i) Chains have a speed limit.
(ii) Chains are a hassle to put on / take off - you will be doing this a lot more without winter tyres.
(iii) The snow/ice conditions on a given road aren't uniform, a bend where a lot of snow / ice has accumulated may catch you out and could lead to insurance / police problems.
(iv) On roads with variable conditions if you leave the chains on too long you could damage the chains and/or the car.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks kerekip, but is there anyone who can give us a reasonable translation as my Austrian doesnt stretch quite that far, and I'll be taking my car and caravan there for christmas
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hugh Jarse, the headline says that it's now confirmed that you will have to have winter tyres. The next sub-text says that from Jan 1 2008 vehicles must be fitted with winter tyres or snow chains in 'winter conditions'. I think that is in ''' s because it might be debatable what consitutes winter conditions.
After that it goes on to talk about last week's chaos on the Vienna ring motorways as people got stuck, and so from Jan 1st, it will be law to have winter tyres or snow chains between Nov 1st and 15 April, in winter conditions. Meaning that if there are winter conditions outside these dates you don't have to, or if it is not winter conditions within these dates then you also don't have to!
Confused??
Goes on to mention 'winter conditions, in particular snow, slush and ice', and later that snow chains are a suitable alternative to winter tyres but only on properly snowy roads where they will not damage the carriageway.
The fine for simply not carrying them is EUR35, but if you are not carrying them and cause/get into a dangerous situation, it could be up to 5,000. You may also be forced to abandon your vehicle.
That's it in a nutshell, the rest is just blurb really.
Let me know if you have any specific q's no the article and I will translate bits verbatim if you need.
Ta
D
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hugh Jarse,
(babelfish translation worked on a bit so at least it's understandable)
Such a traffic chaos as last Friday - when thousands were stick on the Viennese outer ring motorway was not to happen again, agreed the Austrian ruling coalition. The legal framework for the winter tire obligation is fixed: The regulation will apply from 1 November to 15 April, whereby expressly "winter conditions" must prevail. Alternatively to the winter tires also tire chains can be used, parking passenger cars are excluded. The law was decided in the parliamentary committee and comes into effect from 1. Jan 2008. This was welcomed by the traffic organizations throughout. Drivers of a passenger car, a combination motor vehicle or a truck with a highest permissible total weight of no more than 3500 kg may drive "in winter roadway conditions, in particular with snow, sluch or ice", their vehicle only, "if all wheels have winter tires installed, or if tire chains are attached to the drive wheels", quoted OEVP Verkehrssprecher Helmut Kukacka from the agreement, which it obtained together with its FR opposite traffic speaker Kurt Eder and transport minister Werner Faymann (s). Tire chains are as an alternative permitted only if the roadway is covered with a continued, or considerably uninterrupted snow or ice sheet and thereby the surface of the roadway is not damaged. Punishments against offenders of the regulation: Simple offences are punished with a fine of 35 euro. Only if endangerment facts are present will it become expensive: Winter tyre cases can be punished then in an administrative criminal procedure with up to 5000 euro, says Kukacka. The executive bodies also have the possibility of forcing the vehicle to park up. Kukacka confirmed it would not apply if the roadway is drying is, or exhibits it , is only wet without the formation of snow, slush or ice, then one does not need winter equipment. People who do not have a garage and park their vehicle during the winters on the road but do not use them, do not have to equip likewise. Todate 90 to 95 per cent of the passenger cars are equipped with winter tires, the reorganization is a quite justifiable obligation for the small group of those drivers (the 5 to 10 %) who were often the cause of back-ups, handicaps or traffic accidents. The equipment obligation with winter tires and tire chains for trucks is extended: It becomes inforced from 1 November and applies until 15 April (so far 15 Nov till 15 March). "We are pleased that after the events of the last week the realization became generally accepted that we need an equipment regulation for the winter months for passenger cars too"
(the rest is just comments from various motor organizations agreeing with the ruling).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Was this law considered (by the government) before the problems in Vienna? If not they seem to move very fast on things over there  . Shame IMO they haven't gone for the snowflake symbol as being the standard. Any news on trailers/caravans needing winter tyres?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Boris, If you live anywhere near a Costco Wharehouse. http://www.costco.co.uk/
The tyre depot will order in Michelin Alpins, mine took about 4 days. The prices are normally V good and include everything. Unfortunately you have to be a member (about £30 pa or know someone who is.)
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Just had a polite if short reply from Kerri at etyres.co.uk after asking if they could offer any winter tyres for my Freelander. Apparently they only sell Vredestein winter tyres and cant get the size I need 
gsb, which branch of Costco do you use? I wonder if they can supply winter tyres in a 195/80R15. I can get that size M+S anywhere but not "snowflake". As I'll be driving to Austria from the UK, would it be advisable to do the whole journey on "snowflake" winter tyres or would the less wintery part of the journey ruin them?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
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