How much have you learned by reading, here or elsewhere?

A snowHead

Include:
- You saw something in a non-instructional film, then saw it described in an online forum
- You were shown something, didn't get it, then read about it here and it made sense enough that you could use it
- You read about it then went off and worked it out for yourself without instruction
- Print magazines

Exclude:
- Technique you read about, then were specifically shown by instructors or friends
- Technique you read about, then saw in an instructional film
- Generic advice either here or from friends, e.g. "Get Forward!"

I'll start:

Kick turns (read about it in a print mag then went off and sorted it out on XC skis)
V1 skate technique (read about it in a print mag then went off and sorted it out, on XC skis obviously)
Extending the ankles forward (read about it in a print mag, practiced it, had it refreshed by V8 on this board)
Retraction turns (was doing something like them to get 205cm skis through moguls, then read (ssh's I think) post on them on Epic, kinda led me to join that board)
White Pass turns (read about them on Epic)
Slow dog noodle (print mag)
Polish bagels (print mag)
Pivot slips (as opposed to all the approximations thereof, from vail snopro gif)

There have been others, I just can't recall the context at the mo'.

You?

A snowHead

comprex, I have an inability to learn skiing from the written word. I have had 2 great bits of skiing instruction during lessons:

The written word just does not do it for me.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

comprex, heaps Smile

ILE - instructor had tried to explain some of it but my eyes glazed over at the leg extension/flexion part....and he had me doing part of it.... then I read Fastman's first epic thread on it (the one that he got told he knew zip in)....

that is the most obvious one...

Then there were Snokarvers balance exercises for me from the old epic chat room days....

and there were plenty of lightbulb moments from me from David M, Fastman, Ric B, Skidude, Man from Oz, etc.... most of the folks I'dread have sadly left the building there....

I would say that more than anything those discussions would help clarify my understanding... but every so often something would just fall into place....

I will add though that that is very much a part of my learning style... and why I have always enjoyed having a selection of instructors.... if one piece does not yet fit the picture I have, I sort of keep it in my mind as though on a "sticky note".... I collect these and then when I am reading etc I am matching all the sticky notes and current concepts and seeing what fits where....

Eventually things that I have collected mesh together - or some bits are out of place and get put back into storage... So often it is only a throw away comment or one small exercise etc that makes the Idea

moment...

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I'm going to have a go at the ILE transition next time I'm on snow. Whether I'll actually be able to do it is another thing entirely rolling eyes

.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm with Frosty, struggle to visualise what is required from articles etc...

One to one(ish) on the snow/ice and things are a lot easier to see.

Maybe as my skiing improves and I get more time on the snow, this may change

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Frosty the Snowman, little tiger, I respect that both. I am looking for stories of success, however, not a little bit because I think current standards of explanation need review. maggi, I think you can, it's really just like walking once the explanation is clear in one's head. kermit, 'struggle to visualise' is good feedback.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Nowt in relation to ski technique, that I can recall. I'd have to exclude it all because I'd already been told it in lessons.

Tons on tuning, trying fatter skis and how to buy boots though.

After all it is free

Frosty the Snowman,

comprex, I need a phsyical demo and a chance to practice and be assessed.

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comprex, I think learning styles differ a lot and that affects how good the result can be....

I am crap at actual "visualising" so I do not use that to learn movements (copy me almost never works)... hence it is feelings and theory I am working with.... these seem to be easier to 'describe' with words perhaps?

Or maybe I just developed a style that sort of worked for me...

I do not think I could learn completely from the written/spoken word - but it is usually the thing that puts the pieces together for me - not demonstration...

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Frosty the Snowman, I submit that

snow reports

comprex, that would make sense.... I don't need that when i read because I know it from all the lessons .... the reading is joining up the disparate sensations and attempts to explain movements into sequences I can understand...

little tiger, one day I'll start a "Tools to carry context over from season to season" thread. I'm fairly sure "memory of best run of season" will be in there.

In the meantime, I'd really like to hear more people were successful in applying forum or print information, and their stories.

You know it makes sense.

I'm an 'experiential' learner ... the written word is useless, in fact sometimes counter-productive as an educational tool. Embarassed

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Agenterre, can you describe to others what you know?

A snowHead

comprex, Yes ...if I thought I couldn't do that I wouldn't bother posting responses here; and my ability ( good or bad) is irrelevant to your original question. I can 'describe' both verbally and in the written word and also by demonstrating my knowledge through action . Your original question was about 'How much ( and consequently how ) we/'I' learn'.

My response is.... the 'best' medium for me to learn is 'by doing things'. Proven many times over in many different fields .. we are all different.

( Sorry if I didn't describe it well wink

)

A snowHead

Agenterre, not wholly irrelevant, imo.

The (financial, time, experience, frustration, lack of continuity) costs of learning only by 'best' medium, and whether they exceed the costs of developing (further) capability at 'second, third, fourth-best' mediums are at the core of the discussion as I see it.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

comprex, I'm going to shoot myself if BZK isn't temporarly shut down.

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I'll help!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I wouldn't say I "learn by reading" much, internet forum in particular. I need pictures. So, printed materials has slightly better chance, if and only they include good picutre/illustrations.

I totally don't get much out of yourtube. I can't seem to be able to see the point! Smile

As far as "learning", I do most of it by watching and following instructors, watching and following better skiers,etc.

What I do get, that's why I'm here, from WORDS, are the physics behind why something works or not. There's never enough time to discuss that in a lesson, even private one. Let alone many instrutors are not physicist. Understanding HOW something work does help me to focus on "achieving the force/interaction" instead of just vaguely copying a move.

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I've learnt nothing from written word in terms of skiing, skiing is an activity where you learn from experience and not by reading some guy telling you that the ankle needs to be flexed at a specific angle to bla bla bla *slits his wrists*

That said, fall-line has given me some tips on doing tricks which I'll bear in mind when I try them, but they've not taught me them.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Apart from when I first started I have learnt precious little about skiing from the written word.

Classic books like 'We learnt to ski' were very useful at the time. I have never learnt anything to help my own ski technique from the written word on the internet . Demos on SkiTV are a bit more useful.

This is in stark contrast to golf where I have picked up loads of little tips from books and magazines.

After all it is free

When I had trouble carving Graham N told me to try a wider stance and suggested a few exercises - that worked a treat.
When I couldn't get out of the back seat easyski told me to imagine I was diving into a pool to initiate my turns - that was the best piece of advice I have ever been given.
There are loads of other things that people have helped me with, Comprex gave some advice on carving recently, loads of folk have helped, apologies to all I've not mentioned. All written advice and mostly very helpful. I usually struggle to understand articles though, and have found that the really helpful written instructions have been in response to my (and other peoples') specific questions.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Hurtle, ...arrgghhh , funny you should mention side-slipping 'backwards '... Maggi is an expert in that area wink

... however I'll let the lady explain herself as she has a much nicer turn-of-phrase .. snowHead

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snowHeads and some books have helped to increase my understanding of the theory of what I'm trying to do. Some of the BzK discussions, Ron LeMaster's book and Mark Ellings' book, for example. This doesn't automatically make me a better skier, but understanding the theory is an important step for me. If I was on the hill with an instructor I would still need this, through discussion rather than demonstration.

snow reports

abc, I'm with you - I'm a Why merchant to. The lesson can give me the do this do that, but as you say rarely tells you why it works (esp. when the lesson is not in your own language). I have more in confidence in the 'do this' if I understand why it should work - that is as much down to understanding the physics of the action and why the desgn of the kit makes is behave as it does. For example, a classic for me was the bendy ruler analogy for the skis - this is where words are useful. Also, skiing video can be useful but the skier has to be demonstrating a very visible technique, rather than a sublety for me to see it. For the more subtle hints and tips pictures work better for me. For example in the glossary of skiing terms threads, there are lots of nice pictures showing the position of the skiers. I think in terms of words, demonstration, video and pictures its 'horses for courses'.

although i gloss over this section, i tend not to actually read it. i find there are too many experts giving oppinions, when they dont really have the teaching credentials to back it up. i have total respect for any quallified instructors/coaches/teachers here though

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

krunchie63, nah its just the bull poo-poo levels have been ramped up

A snowHead

A snowHead

Written word alone - not if its anything more than a bullet point.

Photos, illustrations, cartoons different matter.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Information is best translated in an 'Immediate Response Environment' otherwise the exterior surroundings corrupt the digestion. Make 'em laugh, and they'll enjoy whatever they learn, now or forever. wink

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It can help a bit - but nowhere near as much as videos of good skiers, videos of yourself and skiing behind someone who is really good.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

stoatsbrother, I can get buckets more dollars* at my job than by selling things on ebay, so why do I ask for money?

*needed to keep up with everyone else at the mo'

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comprex,

is this another 8 hotdog / 10 bun situation?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

I think "get forward" is a perfectly acceptable point for a certain level of skier. Obviously it has to be someone who will appreciate that it doesn't just mean break at the waist and fling upper body forward but as a reminder why not - I say it to myself?

Context is everything - the problem with internet forums generally is that everyone has a different context which is why trying to communicate technical concepts by written word alone often leads to arguments. Pictures help enourmously in establishing common context.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Help!!

How much have you learned by reading, here or elsewhere?

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