 Poster: A snowHead
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A quarter of all Brits go skiing without travel insurance, according to research from Ensure. Five percent of the uninsured wrongly believe that their European Health Insurance card (formally the E111) will provide full medical cover should they become injured when skiing....The research, also found that 27 percent mistakenly believe that all annual travel policies will cover their skiing holidays as standard, and 20 percent would try out an adventure sport like ice-lake diving, off-piste snowboarding or tobogganing even though they knew such a high risk sport was not covered by their travel insurance policy.
From: http://www.fairinvestment.co.uk/insurance-news-One-in-four-ski-without-travel-insurance-646.html
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Biased research.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's helpful bh1 
So it's obvious to anyone over 12 that there is a vested interest in an insurance company pointing out to people that they may be under-insured and gathering statistics to demonstrate that point.
But, having a vested interest and presenting a biased viewpoint are quite separate things and while the vested interest is clear, I fail to see any substantial bias in what is being presented.
So, in your considered opinion, what is the inaccuracy or the intended subterfuge that moves you to dismiss this in such an off-hand manner?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I suspect many Brits do all sorts of things without insurance, or at any rate without adequate insurance. But the number does seem quite high when so many travel with tour operators, who generally insist on insurance - I remember being asked to provide proof that I had insurance, when we were not taking the tour op's own policy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Many go with just EHIC card and Carte Neige for getting rescued. 25% seems high. 43% of the people I just asked agreed with me and 17.8% said I was an idiot. 59.2% expressed no opinion.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Many other nationalities do things without insurance. I recently had Dutch people renting my apartment. The week before they were due to come, their daughter broke her leg, but they did not have holiday insurance to cover them for cancellation.
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| x7 wrote: |
That's helpful bh1
So, in your considered opinion, what is the inaccuracy or the intended subterfuge that moves you to dismiss this in such an off-hand manner? |
How would I know? I can't see anything about their methodology, sampling, scale testing, non-response bias, etc in their report. Come back when you you know what you're talking about.
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Bode Swiller, It is a well known fact that 94.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| Many other nationalities do things without insurance. I recently had Dutch people renting my apartment. The week before they were due to come, their daughter broke her leg, but they did not have holiday insurance to cover them for cancellation. |
There's this concept of "self-insurance".
Basically, as long as the worst case lose will not wipe out your entire asset AND leaving you unable to make a living, insurance is optional. And largely a personal choice.
Add up the premium of all the years, substract the payout when an injury occurs, majority of people come out the short end (sum of premium < 1 or 0 time pay out). Or the insurance company would have to raise the premium to make a profit. Those who collect more than they pay in are the minorities.
Only in the case of catastrophic event (auto accident, medical treatment of major illness), that insurance is worthwile EVEN IF one never use it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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abc, met a fit young dude once who had a heart attack in Colorado... spent a month in hospital, needed an op... £300k paid by insurance. His annual policy probably cost him £90. I think you can keep self insurance.
gwaelod, plus or minus 3%
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| abc, met a fit young dude once who had a heart attack in Colorado... spent a month in hospital, needed an op... £300k paid by insurance. His annual policy probably cost him £90. I think you can keep self insurance. |
Exactly my point: "Only in the case of catastrophic event (auto accident, medical treatment of major illness), that insurance is worthwile EVEN IF one never use it. "
Thanks for the example.
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abc, yes, completely agree. Insurance companies only exist to make money, so there is no point insuring against risks you could afford to carry yourself, unless you rate your likelihood of incurring the problem to be greater than the odds used by the industry. So, I insure against having to be helicoptered off a mountain, or having a heart attack in the USA, but not for losing my ski gear or having my bike stolen.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, another vote for that point of view. Assess the risks for yourself, take out appropriate insurance if you feel it necessary.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yep: I never take out insurance on electrical goods. I've got enough that the law of averages is unlikely to be defied, and a single loss is just a pain in the @rs€, not a catastrophe.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It may be a personal choice, but when they try to get you to refund their holiday money it plays on your conscience. Many other private acommodation owners have been put in the same awkward position by uninsured guests demanding their money returned when they are unable to travel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The esure research (27%) might be a touch high, but not wildly so.
Direct Line reported that 19% of UK skiers / boarders went sliding without insurance in 2005.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont, TSB innit!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| It may be a personal choice, but when they try to get you to refund their holiday money it plays on your conscience. Many other private acommodation owners have been put in the same awkward position by uninsured guests demanding their money returned when they are unable to travel. |
I think it's perfectly fair for the owner to say that refund will ONLY be given in the event when the property can be re-let to other guest. And only up to the amount collected from the new guest. That way, if a new guest turn up, great. If not, your conscience won't be too much bothered.
There's really no ground for the guest to "demand" their money back. Although in an area with very high demand, the property owner might be happy to re-let the property and refund the money to build a good reputation/relation with the guest. Still, it's not something the guest should count on.
I once had a trip interruption due to a auto accident. So I called the property owner and explainedhe situation. I made it clear I fully expect to loss my deposit (1 night lodging). But just in case the room could be re-sold, I would appreciate whatever amount of refund appropriate. The owner told me there should be no trouble re-letting the room to (many) late arrivals. So I should look forward to a full refund. I was glad and recommended that property to others travelling to the area.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, Nice to hear. There are actually quite a few people in business who have a sense of ethics but we often don't tend to hear of them.
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abc, it was too late to relet, but as they were friends of our Dutch relatives I felt pressured a bit. I did offer to change their booking for another week, but refusing to refund made me feel bad. I would have refunded if I had managed to re-let.
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Helen, your offer sounds more than reasonable. As such, if they still felt they're entitled to a refund at your expense, they are the ones who are being un-reasonable. Un-reasonable people don't deserve your mental agony.
By suggesting a refund IF and when it's re-let, perhaps you could also get it into their head how improbably it is, and then understand why you wouldn't be able to offer the refund?
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Helen Beaumont, I think you were reasonable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| bh1 wrote: |
| x7 wrote: |
That's helpful bh1
So, in your considered opinion, what is the inaccuracy or the intended subterfuge that moves you to dismiss this in such an off-hand manner? |
How would I know? I can't see anything about their methodology, sampling, scale testing, non-response bias, etc in their report. Come back when you you know what you're talking about. |
I've no idea how you would know but you're the one who said it was 'biased research'. My question, in essence, was asking what you are talking about, if in slighly more polite terms than your own. Your answer suggests to me that you yourself have no idea. In that light your original comment appears rather inane and pointless. I suspected as much but thank you for the clarification.
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Self insurance is perfectly valid for lots of things: we have 2 dogs and no pet insurance.
It would cost about £250/year/dog
So £500/year, dogs live about 14 years.
That buys a lot of vetting....and we have notoriously healthy breed (anybody care to make an informed guess?)....self insurance is the way to go.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rungsp, we made the same decision over insurance for the cats - looked into it after one of them broke a leg and cost us 250€, and found that they could just about break a limb each every year before insurance became worthwhile.
Obviously they have failed to do any such thing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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was there even such a thing as pet insurance 20 years ago? i am definitely in the camp of self-insuring except for things that can really wipe you out (ie buildings insurance, mountain rescue, some medical, car (when I have a car...)). Apart from anything else, I hate dealing with insurance companies so the loss has to be pretty big before i can even face the pain of all the form filling etc
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The whole idea of "insurance" for pet and car breakdown, as far as I can tell, is just another way for vets and car repair chains to make additional money. At least that's what it started out until the insurance company got into the act and made it wide spread and it start to "look" legitimate. Doesn't make it any better than a money making scheme.
Travel insurance is somewhat in the grey area. There's definitely need for travel health insurance for many who traveling internationally, if their regular health insurance voids when out of the country. But a lot of the travel insurance marketed these days are outrageously expensive and are designed to only covers things like lost luggage! Sporting insurance probably falls somewhere in between. So it's up to the comsumer to figure out what they REALLY need and what they actually bought.
Helen Beaumont's guests' situation is a pretty good example. They could simply take Helen's offer for an alternate date and lost very little financially. No need for insurance. On the other hand, had their daughter broke her leg in UK, not at home, they would be in real trouble if they don't have tralvel health insurance to cover the hospital bills...
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You know it makes sense.
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Errr....abc, if she had broken her leg in the UK then she would not have had to pay a penny.
NHS...no chrge even to Johnny Foreigner (especially Johnny EU Citizen)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rungsp wrote: |
Errr....abc, if she had broken her leg in the UK then she would not have had to pay a penny.
NHS...no chrge even to Johnny Foreigner (especially Johnny EU Citizen) |
Well then, they really don't need any insurance at all in that case (unless they were traveling to the US  ).
Thanks for the correction/info.
[p.s.]
So, wouldn't a UK citizen get free medical treatment if they break their leg skiing in France?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| x7 wrote: |
| having a vested interest and presenting a biased viewpoint are quite separate things |
Not really.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
| rungsp wrote: |
Errr....abc, if she had broken her leg in the UK then she would not have had to pay a penny.
NHS...no chrge even to Johnny Foreigner (especially Johnny EU Citizen) |
Well then, they really don't need any insurance at all in that case (unless they were traveling to the US ).
Thanks for the correction/info.
[p.s.]
So, wouldn't a UK citizen get free medical treatment if they break their leg skiing in France? |
Well yes, seeing as France has a public healthcare system iirc. It isn't as if all UK citizens get free healthcare worldwide, it's only national.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
So, wouldn't a UK citizen get free medical treatment if they break their leg skiing in France?
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Yes and no. Your NHS cover doesn't include being hauled off the mountain. And it only refunds about 70% of your hospital treatment, so you still end up with a bill.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pet insurance for our dog costs us about £8 per month (Sainsbury's). we insured her as it even covers us for a missed ferry and having to visit the vet again before we come back to the UK>
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| x7 wrote: |
| having a vested interest and presenting a biased viewpoint are quite separate things |
Not really. |
OK true, they're connected things but not the same thing.
If you discounted every opinion that had a vested interest associated with it, you'd lose much of the useful stuff on this site for a start.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Agreed. But there's a difference between presenting it as opinion, and presenting it as fact.
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There are many reasons for doing things without insurance. Having cystic fibrosis, I can't get any insurance to cover me for this condition, except for ridiculous premiums (e.g. £5000 to travel to North America). I have to options - travel uninsured, accepting that one of these days I'll need treatment for the CF and therefore have to pay up, or not go. In Europe it isn't such a big problem, as I can get home relatively easily and cheaply and if my lungs are too bad to fly, you can get home by ferry or train in a day or two. In North America it isn't so easy, so we have reluctantly decided not to go there. I've cover for everything else, and the insurer knows about the CF and has agreed to cover me for everything else. I've used it once when skiing in France (broken knee).
The biggest risk I took was our honeymoon in Mauritius - we decided to risk it, and we were OK. Oh yes, and I know it's hot in Mauritius, but were were able to water-ski, at least 
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FAQ
