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Most over-hyped run?

 Poster: A snowHead
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davidof, a fair point. But aren't we moving slightly O.T.? IIRC, wink the point wasn't steep but over-hyped. I will stand by my candidates!
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La Face in Val d'Isere is overhyped I think.
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Kramer, agreed.
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And the Valentin in Les Deux Alpes is very underhyped.
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I don't think a run has to be steep to be over-hyped! I'm trying to think of a run that really disappointed that had been hyped up, but apart from the Sarenne I can't. I haven't skied Valluga though or the Wang in Klosters - I might be disappointed, but I suspect not!
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Not done it, but from what others have said surely the "Harikiri" in Mayerhofen(?) has to be up there.

easiski, I suspect you'll never do the Valluga Wink .
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T Bar,

The right side of Mont Fort ( looking down ) is steep..but again, same perspective as Tortin as I was there the same time..!!

The black into Lavachet (GM) has a good pitch and I've seen people go top to bottom with very bad results there.

If the conditions are kind or condusive then that brings a lot of routes into being ok... if they aren't, then you need plan B but by then you might be 'committed'

davidof's 2 pics look the ticket.
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David Murdoch wrote:
davidof, a fair point. But aren't we moving slightly O.T.? IIRC, wink the point wasn't steep but over-hyped. I will stand by my candidates!


Yes. Just pointing out that not all black runs are flat billiard tables like la Face de Bellevarde. The Tunnel at les Deux alpes is around 35 degrees and the return from the Brevent is also around that kind of steepness in places. The Tunnel isn't particuarly exposed but deserves some respect from intermediate skiers.
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Firstly, whats the "Swiss Wall" ?

Also, for any of you who have been to Obertauern; you know that black run at one of the high points of the resort whereby you can only get to it via a 2 seater chairlift which is really shoddy? How steep would you say that is? I'd say its 30-35° but I need something I can remember to benchmark these posts too... I remember doing that run in windy, snowy, icey conditions and absolutely loving it. A lot of people who were skiing on it shouldn't have been skiing on it nor even a hard red so we had to wait for them... ruined my fun Sad
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 brian
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Timmaah, the Swiss wall, or Pas de Chavanettes to give it it's Sunday name, is in the Portes du Soleil between Avoriaz and Les Crosets.
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I'd add the Vallons de la Sache "black" run in Tignes. Pleasant enough run, the last 200 yards were a bit mogulled. Trickiets bit was working out which way to go just after the emergency hut, we didn;t realise that the piste went *over* that big hump so skiied round the side of it (Jan 2007)
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nbt, the last 350 metres (I just measured on the map) goes back to being less steep - it is the previous half kilometre which is genuinely steep (the bit which you can avoid by going right on a blue, at the point where the off-piste run joins it because of the impassable gorge). Up till that last 3/4km the run is a broad, gentle, scenic route with off-piste alternatives. Personally I rather like the Sache, though in bad snow the steep bit can be very stony.
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this is in danger of turning into a thread on over-egged piste ratings. i've never seen Val d'I sold on the back of the Sache
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
snowball, Fair point, I had forgotten the flattish run out. I just remember a slightly steeper mogulled bit with a couple of sharp bends. Looking at the piste map, it looks like that might actually be where it joins the bottom of the pavot red run, as I don't recall passing under any lifts so must have stayed on the Sache rather than taking the road across to the pavot further up
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I'd say that the top 50m of Sous le tele is >40 degrees. I'd agree that the bottom half isn't more than 35 degrees. That said, I think it's been taken of the piste maps now (was last time I was in Courchevel). I cant think of any marked, patrolled and contrilled runs in Europe that are much >35 degrees. Guess Mont Fort is about 35. Tortin didn't strike me as all that steep.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer wrote:
La Face in Val d'Isere is overhyped I think.


Its all about how you ski it!! wink

Last season a group of us skied it on a very quiet sunday morning when it was very icy and bumpy. GS Skis, GS turns & high speed.
Taking off over the bumps, whilst maintaing your line, certainally tests your commitment, skill level & bottle Laughing Definatly not overhyped with those conditions and speeds Cool Cool
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jedster wrote:
I'd say that the top 50m of Sous le tele is >40 degrees. I'd agree that the bottom half isn't more than 35 degrees. That said, I think it's been taken of the piste maps now (was last time I was in Courchevel). I cant think of any marked, patrolled and contrilled runs in Europe that are much >35 degrees. Guess Mont Fort is about 35. Tortin didn't strike me as all that steep.


It obviously depends on season to season but I measured it at around 35 degrees with a clinometre when I was there, just out of interest. The Tournier off the back is more like 40 degrees.
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The tunnel is another run I have not done and I don't know where Lavachet (GM) is. But the Mont Fort run slightly emphasises my point in as much as there used to be two runs marked on the piste map the right hand one was black and the left hand one red looking down the mountain. There now only seems to be the left hand one marked (black) and the right hand one you had to duck under ropes to access on my visit last Easter. Likewise Tortin is an Itinaire
The Wang to which easiski, refers is now off piste and previously was a recognised black. All the runs of the Valluga which were black have been turned into Itinaires, I know the one of the back to which Graham refers (and I have never skied) never was anything other than a serious bit of off piste.
I have never measured any runs with a clinometer but doubt from speaking to guides who I ski with if I do anything much steeper than 30-35 degrees for anything other than a very short pitch but even at my level most blacks do not seem particularly steep (In some conditionsI may find them difficult though)

Timmaah,
That run is the Gamsleiten, from memory (and the picture on my sons wall) the top bit is not particularly steep but there is a short pitch at the bottom which is I would guess around 30 degrees which you could traverse round and avoid. Nice snow the time I was there.
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T Bar, That's the one, why would anyone want to traverse around the steep bit! Travesty! I do want to find me some challenging black runs though... there any decent ones in Saalbach?
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nbt wrote:
snowball, Fair point, I had forgotten the flattish run out. I just remember a slightly steeper mogulled bit with a couple of sharp bends. Looking at the piste map, it looks like that might actually be where it joins the bottom of the pavot red run, as I don't recall passing under any lifts so must have stayed on the Sache rather than taking the road across to the pavot further up


I think you are thinking of the red route at the bottom. The black Sache is steeper and goes absolutely straight down for 1/2km with not even a slight bend (except right at the top, just as it gets steep.
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snowball, Maybe we got lost then. Seems fair, I didn't think what we did was worthy of being called a black
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Timmaah, if you are getting short on challenges you need to get serious about off-piste. Plenty of 45º slopes waiting for you.
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Did the Sache black in Tigne several times last year as we were staying in Le Breveires. First time I did it just after a big dump of (wet) snow and almost as soon as it had opened. It was unpisted bottomless porridge and it was hard to ski (particularly on tele skis) - if it had been powder it would have been OK. Worst was the couple of times when I fell over as getting up was hard, particularly when I was schussing the steep pitch before the flat section to the emergency hut. A boarder fell over infront of me and I caught an edge as I avoided him and joined him in the snow. Getting up was hard cos it was on the flat and I just sank into the snow whenever I applied any pressure. The only bit I thought was really a black was the final steep pitch (after the emergency hut) down to the junction with the red.

I did it again the next day and it had frozen over night, so the snow had hardened and they'd run a piste machine over some of the run. So even though the final steep pitch was icy and heavily moguled it was a much easier ski than the bottomless porridge the previous day.
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I remember the first time I went to Les Gets, doing a black down the side of the Mont Chery side called Bouquetin. The start was much steeper and trickier than anything else I've done in other resorts, I did it 3 times and lost a ski on the 3rd and slid/bumped pretty much to the bottom which was slightly annoying (after the OMG I'm gonna die stage had passed)! Anyway went back there last year but I don't think it ever got opened because of the lack of snow. Its a very small run, and unless you studied the piste map you'd quite easily ski pass it.
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I've skiied corbets, I managed to keep myself upright at the dropin somehow and the rest isn't too challenging.

But the drop wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is in those pictures.

The week in JH was amazing though, all the bowls literally had a fresh dusting of snow as soon as you got up the lift, then when you finished you'd just go back up and do it all again and have fresh powder waiting for you! snowHead

I'd say the Grand Couloir is pretty overhyped..
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jedster wrote:
I'd say that the top 50m of Sous le tele is >40 degrees. I'd agree that the bottom half isn't more than 35 degrees. That said, I think it's been taken of the piste maps now (was last time I was in Courchevel). I cant think of any marked, patrolled and contrilled runs in Europe that are much >35 degrees. Guess Mont Fort is about 35. Tortin didn't strike me as all that steep.


Wengen's Oh God. The rare occation its actually open. Not alone very very steep, also very straight and very deep.

Generally though, no extended parts of marked runs are over 35 degrees, as they easily turn into icerinks (which is Oh Gods problem too)
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Spikyhedgehog, cool! Any photos?
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Ronald, I like that run. It is really nice to get your nose feeling lower than your toes and doing short turns down it. Not that tricky though.
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You know it makes sense.
Most, if not all, onpiste black runs are overhyped.

Once you reach a certain standard, even a 50 deg slope is not that tricky.

The hard part comes when Mother Nature throws in uncommon offpiste obstacles, like ice, rocks, crust and couloirs.
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alan empty, most of them have been deleted through various computer formats and whatnot.

This is JH but you can't really see much and I look like an alien.. Poor photo quality, haha.

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Spikyhedgehog, good use of extreme hand gesture wink
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Spikyhedgehog, are you Master Chief on holiday?
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that would be so cool - being master chief on holiday.....blast cornices with the shotgun and respawn haha ^^
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The drop into Corbet's isn't overhyped and that's the bit that matters. If it wasn't for the drop in, any reasonably good, confident skier would give it a go (and it's a very short run).

http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/1191/cat/557

http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php/photo/1193/cat/557

You might be lucky and get favourable conditions but I guess not that often. Unlike Spikyhedgehog, I didn't do it and I only saw one guy try it the 10 days I was there (and he fell).
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snowball wrote:
So who here has actually skied Corbetts?


Bob Peters has. (plus a couple of others around it that aren't quite as well known.)
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Timmaah wrote:
Firstly, whats the "Swiss Wall" ?

Also, for any of you who have been to Obertauern; you know that black run at one of the high points of the resort whereby you can only get to it via a 2 seater chairlift which is really shoddy? How steep would you say that is? I'd say its 30-35° but I need something I can remember to benchmark these posts too... I remember doing that run in windy, snowy, icey conditions and absolutely loving it. A lot of people who were skiing on it shouldn't have been skiing on it nor even a hard red so we had to wait for them... ruined my fun Sad

gam 2 is good fun but like all of that resort too short to be in with the big players .. i have seen tracks going off the back of there to god know where and people hiking up to the peak on the right hand side.. on a powder day its borderline perfect.. they bash it a lot more now then they used to.. there is another 'black' run there at th etop of another 2 man coat hanger which has a good fun run to the start and then gets ugly for a bit.. again there are tracks down from the peak to the left of that one where people have done some serious hiking up .. the run out there is great as you assume everyone on the run you join is watching you as opposed to staring in amazement that your going so sllooowww wink
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Quote:

It obviously depends on season to season but I measured it at around 35 degrees with a clinometre when I was there, just out of interest. The Tournier off the back is more like 40 degrees.


Fair enough - never measured it

By the Tournier I assume you mean the "meribel" couloir - pretty much the opposite across the ridge from sous le tele? It's funny, I'd have said that was less steep. Just shows how appearances can be deceptive. Again that's not marked as a piste. Perhaps the thing about sous le tele is that its not really a couloir - it's more open and so seems a bit more exposed?

I once saw someone schuss the first few metres of the ridge cat track, launch off sous le tele, land a 360 on the steepest part of the slope before pulling a forward summersault off one of the rocks below. All on 2 metre skinny skis. Awesome.
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CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
Timmaah wrote:
Firstly, whats the "Swiss Wall" ?

Also, for any of you who have been to Obertauern; you know that black run at one of the high points of the resort whereby you can only get to it via a 2 seater chairlift which is really shoddy? How steep would you say that is? I'd say its 30-35° but I need something I can remember to benchmark these posts too... I remember doing that run in windy, snowy, icey conditions and absolutely loving it. A lot of people who were skiing on it shouldn't have been skiing on it nor even a hard red so we had to wait for them... ruined my fun Sad

gam 2 is good fun but like all of that resort too short to be in with the big players .. i have seen tracks going off the back of there to god know where and people hiking up to the peak on the right hand side.. on a powder day its borderline perfect.. they bash it a lot more now then they used to.. there is another 'black' run there at th etop of another 2 man coat hanger which has a good fun run to the start and then gets ugly for a bit.. again there are tracks down from the peak to the left of that one where people have done some serious hiking up .. the run out there is great as you assume everyone on the run you join is watching you as opposed to staring in amazement that your going so sllooowww wink


Ya, I have skiied down the other side of Obertauern, in other words the bit where you take the lift up and then hike up for 100m or so to the summit. Long hike but the skiing was worth it Very Happy That was a lot of fun, not challenging except for the icey moguls towards the bottom but the tree skiing is awesome. Our instructor also made us hike for 20 minutes off the main piste and we got to untouched tree skiing, was just awesome Very Happy The instructor was having as much fun as we were cause he doesn't usually get to go off-piste and explore the backcountry so was all good fun.
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Nickski wrote:
The drop into Corbet's isn't overhyped and that's the bit that matters. If it wasn't for the drop in, any reasonably good, confident skier would give it a go (and it's a very short run).


Would I get laughed at if I abseilled in Laughing
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You could use this method:
http://youtube.com/v/NhKCs1jvFaw I call it the "fingertips until gravity take over".

Helenls and I intend to do Corbet's in Feb - we'll be in town knocking on three weeks so hopefully conditions will be good. Personally I don't give a damn if I break something (except my skis obviously) - I want to do this run. Very Happy

As others have said it's the drop in and the first 3 seconds, if you can keep your head and get that first HARD turn in you'll be fine, screw up the turn, bottle it, lose your nerve for just a split second and you'll fall.
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