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Saalbach and Zell am See connection

 Poster: A snowHead
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Brownbear101,

Thanks for the update. If true, I presume construction would need to start in 2014 - we'll see if there's any activity in the summer!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Does anyone know anything about the supposed link from Hinterglemm to fieberbrunn


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 20-12-13 18:29; edited 1 time in total
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Reports have said that the Fieberbrunn-Hinterglemm link will be built by 2017. I think just exactly when depends on the necessary finance being found. Various statutory investigations, e.g. environmental checks (though I believe no problems are expected here), must also be completed before the link can be built.
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Thanks espri.
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One small postscript: this morning I spoke with an attendant in the car park by the Fieberbrunn lifts and he said that a traffic census will be starting there tomorrow, to provide data for the planning of the new lift. So things are happening Very Happy
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I have been skiing in saalbach today and could see the Reckmoos Sud gondola. I assume they would have to build a new lift off the back of the Reiter Ost ? Smile
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Yes, Saalbachsnowhead. In this post there are a couple of photos that try to show the ridge I think the lift will run along. I expect it to be a gondola with one end near the bottom station of the Reckmoos Süd on the Fieberbrunn side, a middle station in the valley (the Hörndlinger Graben), and the Hinterglemm station near the Reiter Ost lift (top or bottom, I'm not sure which).
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It looks like leogang is getting its second gondola. There is a report on seilbahn net showing the project. http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.seilbahn.net/sn/index.php?i%3D60%26kat%3D21%26news%3D5521%26titel%3DBaubeginn%2520der%252010er%2520Steinbergbahn%2520in%2520Leogang&prev=/search?q%3Dsteinbergbahn%26tbs%3Dqdr:w
Cool
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So the land owners, environmentalists, small farmers and their cows are all happy - but what about Chicken Man! The new top station appears to be right where his esteemed establishment currently stands. Does this mean no more chickens (or ribs)? We need answers! Cool
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Does this mean more hordes invading from the Leogang direction with resulting crowded pistes and queues at the Schoenleiten 6er?
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Tatman's Tours wrote:
Does this mean more hordes invading from the Leogang direction with resulting crowded pistes and queues at the Schoenleiten 6er?


I would worry about that..... Maybe Saalbach Will upgrade the polton lift now because it will have extra pressure on it If The Zell - Saalbach link is completed as people would have to use the Polten lift to get back to Zell. It may also ease the pressure off the often busy schoenliten 6er.
Also, What are the queues like at the azitz 8er and sportbahn 2000 in the morning? Would These be likely to lengthen with more people going over to the main part of the Ski-circus when the second gondola is built?
(I am always based in Saalbach so never see the queues at Leogang In the morning but when I ski over there there never seem to be any queues...)
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Saalbachsnowhead wrote:
It looks like leogang is getting its second gondola. There is a report on seilbahn net showing the project. http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.seilbahn.net/sn/index.php?i%3D60%26kat%3D21%26news%3D5521%26titel%3DBaubeginn%2520der%252010er%2520Steinbergbahn%2520in%2520Leogang&prev=/search?q%3Dsteinbergbahn%26tbs%3Dqdr:w
Cool

Anyone who read this report on the new lift in Leogang, the "10 stone mountain railway", may have been suprised by the plan to build a gondola only for skiers weighing 10 stones or less. I believe that this is being done in an attempt to keep down the cost of the development. Heavier skiers, myself included, will have to continue using the existing Asitzbahn gondola.



No, only kidding, but Google's translation of 10er Steinbergbahn does make one wonder! Another "interesting" translation is Bavarian Hall Forestry for Bayerische Saalforste (which are actually the forests adminstered by Bavaria in this part of Austria and originally used as fuel for the salt mines in Bad Reichenhall).

However, practically I saw a digger standing by the site when I passed today, so it looks as though the work will be starting tomorrow, as reported. I too have also read (in alpinforum.com) that the Polten chairlift will be replaced by an 8-seater this year. Whether the new lifts will increase the number of skiers on the Saalbach side I could not say. Probably a bit but the main idea behind the new development is to provide a backup for the Asitzbahn should that have technical problems, I think.

P.S. The start of the development is also reported (in German) on the Leogang lifts web site. Although it isn't mentioned in these reports, I believe that a new T-bar is also planned near the bottom station of the Steinbergbahn. I understand that would mainly be used as a link from the gondola up to the Krallerhof hotel.
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Google maps now handily has the ski lifts and runs marked. This link:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.4090661,12.6389229,13z
gives a sense of where these links might be and the relative locations of the resorts.
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Quote:

the Polten chairlift will be replaced by an 8-seater this year

Hooray! Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
New/planned ski lifts in Saalbach (including Polten) is shown on the following website:

http://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/saalbach-hinterglemm-leogang-skicircus/ski-lifts/
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I am assuming the new lifts are going to be made by either Dopplemayr or Leitner. However I think they are going to be constructed by Melzer & Hopfner ( I may be wrong ).
These are the new lifts they say they are going to be building this year. http://www.melzer-hopfner.at/

Planned lifts are also listed at http://www.lift-world.info/en/lifts/projects/page1.htm . They say the Steinbergbahn and Polten lifts are officially confirmed however they also list the Bernkogel II but this is unconfirmed?

I also noticed back on Melzer & Hopfner ,if you go to Aktuelle Projekte (current projects) The Bernkogel II is listed as a new 6 seat chair to be built this year . Very Happy

Zellmaniac, Thanks For the link I saw on zell am see's Planned lifts as well as the Pissendorf Lifts (Which I assume aren't coming to anything) they Listed Viehhofen-Salersbachköpfl (YOC 2015) Does this mean it is confirmed to be built in 2015?
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As I understand it, Melzer & Hopfner is the firm responsible for the overall design of the systems (where they are going, architecture, capacity, etc.). I think the manufacturer of the Steinbergbahn gondola will be Doppelmayr. There are also various companies specialised on installing the lifts, e.g. Kogler.
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Saalbachsnowhead,

Yes I noticed the old Piesendorf lifts were listed - and for the foreseeable future are not happening. However no date was allocated to them unlike the Viehofen link.

I'm not sure how authoritative the website is but presumably they have a reasonable source.

I'm interested to see if people are generally opposed or in favour of the Zell link.
I presume Zell people will be in favour and Saalbach people will be anti. Am I wrong?
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Certainly I'm dubious about the benefits for Saalbach, although, if I lived in Viehhofen or Zell, I'd no doubt feel differently.
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I own a apartment in Saalbach and I am not worried about bookings as I do not think the link will affect bookings too much in the winter. I am hoping that if the link happens we will get more bookings in the Summer as at the moment we get barely any. I would be excited at the opportunity of being able to ski over to zell as there are some nice slopes, but am slightly concerned about the amount of people from Zell that would ski over to saalbach.

Saalbach have also listed what is going to be new for the 2014/15 season on their website. http://www.saalbach.com/en/winter/lift-company/news/new-in-winter-201415.html
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Quote:

Saalbach have also listed what is going to be new for the 2014/15 season on their website. http://www.saalbach.com/en/winter/lift-company/news/new-in-winter-201415.html


So Bernkogel 2 (the replacement for the T-Bars) is not on this summer's list of projects.

As for the link from Zell (and the possible increased traffic as a result of the new Leogang gondola), there are two potential bottlenecks:
1) the current one at the Schonleiten mid-station. Despite there being two lifts there (the gondola and the Schonleiten 6 chair) these can barely handle the current load at peak times
2) Piste 64, the narrow blue track from the Seidl Alm to the Schonleiten mid-station. This also struggles to cope with the current demand and is a slushy mess in warm weather and rutted and icy in cold weather. It also directly cuts across 3 other pistes, 62 from the Wildenkarhutte to Polten, and 61 and 62a which are frequently used for race training - so 3 already dangerous junctions.

One solution would be to build a lift from the Seidl Alm area (or from the bottom of Polten) up to the top of Schonleiten. This would take some skiers away from these two bottlenecks by providing an alternative route into the Saalbach area.
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quinton, I agree entirely but can't see it happening as it's not on their list of 'grand projets'. Shame about Bernkogel 2 apparently being shunted down the list of priorities - Hans Peter assured me last winter season that it was to be upgraded last summer, and there are a few disappointed people, including one of my acquaintance who categorically refuses to use the T-bar.
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Been walking in Saalbach today but got caught at the top of the Schattberg as a storm moved in and it was to windy to run the lift. Eventually we went down with the lift attendants at around 5pm. Speaking to them they confirmed that the lift from viehofen to zell am see will most likely be built next year. He also said it is likely the link between fieberbrunn and saalbach be built next year. I assume this means they have got planning. - http://www.seilbahn.net/sn/index.php?i=60&kat=4&news=5719&titel=Schiverbindung.

More pictures and developments are on alpinforum :
http://www.alpinforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=792&sid=ed1f73c55cb0184922d65ec807023521&start=3250

http://www.alpinforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=50877

So looks like things are happening! Very Happy
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Saalbachsnowhead, Thanks for updating us.
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http://mobileapps.tt.com/wirtschaft/8927169-91/klare-mehrheit-f%C3%BCr-skigebiet.csp

The report on this website ( In German ) says construction of the link between Saalbach and fieberbrunn will be built next summer ! Very Happy
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Quote:

The report on this website ( In German ) says construction of the link between Saalbach and fieberbrunn will be built next summer !


It also says that in 2016/17, 'the connection' with Zell am See and Kaprun should be complete. Does this mean a ticketing merger for Fieberbrunn/Saalbach/Zell (already in place between Saalbach and Zell if you buy a Ski Alpin pass) or an actual lift connection?

The Polten lift is well on the way to completion, between Saalbach and Leogang. The top of Polten is also presumably close to where any lift coming up from Viehofen (i.e. the likely route from Zell) would be sited.

There is currently building work on Bernkogel, which a liftie told me was the preparation work for a new lift to replace the Berkogel T-bars (hurrah!) but which will not be completed until the 2015-16 season - which is handy as this will be required to improve the link from Saalbach towards the new Fieberbrunn lift.
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My understanding is that the report means that the lift linking Viehhofen to the Schmittenhöhe at Zell will be built for the 2016/17 season. I don't really expect that the link from Viehhofen onto the Asitz, the mountain at the top of the Polton chairlift, will be built for the same season but I suppose it could be.

I'm not clear what the situation will be with lift tickets. The report mentions season tickets being available for combined areas but says no 1-21 day tickets. Presently Fieberbrunn is on the Schneewinkel, Kitzbüheler Alps and the Salzburg Super Ski card. It seems to be leaving the Schneewinkel group when the new link is built but (for season tickets) the Schneewinkel is presently included in the other two season ticket groups. All a bit confusing - we shall see.
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Quote:

the preparation work for a new lift to replace the Berkogel T-bars (hurrah!) but which will not be completed until the 2015-16 season

Very welcome news! Not sure about the rest but keeping an open mind.
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Interesting stuff - I thought the Zell link was on the permanent backburner!!

I hope it is a positive thing - we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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http://www.schmitten.at/uploads/media/Panorama_Schmitten.jpg

Ski route to Viehhofen already on the piste map , no.38 Wink


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 9-09-14 7:18; edited 1 time in total
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Tom W, Yep, pretty sure that's new? I've thrown out last seasons map but I know for a fact a friend has one so I'll check it when I see him next week.
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Actually I think the route shown on the other side of the lake at Thumersbach is new too. There were runs there until about 10 years ago but the lifts were old and there was no money to replace them so they closed it all. I heard a rumour last winter that they were considering opening it again to some extent. I suppose the S\H link is the answer to their prayers but its still going to be a bit of a choke point and they really need as much expansion as they can get?
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Looks like Sudabfahrt has now been reclassified as a "Red" rather than a "Black" anyone know if there has been any modifications made or is this just a bit of creative marketing to show an easier route back to the valley?
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mbeaney,

Skied Sudabfahrt several times last season but I didn't see any changes from previous years. In reality it really should never have been classified as a black.

As a run back to the valley it is not a great option in the spring - it's usually one of the first runs to close when the snow starts to melt. Plus the walk at the bottom of the run is a bit of a PITA.
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Meanwhile back on ski-route 38... You ski to the bottom at Viehhofen, and then what? You could get the bus to Schonleiten and ski the Saalbach/Hinterglemm/Leogang circus, but there is only an hourly Postbus back to Zell and unless you have a Ski Alpin card, your Zell lift ticket is not valid in S/H/L.

Quote:

My understanding is that the report means that the lift linking Viehhofen to the Schmittenhöhe at Zell will be built for the 2016/17 season. I don't really expect that the link from Viehhofen onto the Asitz, the mountain at the top of the Polton chairlift, will be built for the same season but I suppose it could be.


Similar problem. Building just one lift won't provide an adequate link - there's only the bendy-bus from Viehhofen to Schonleiten, so if a thousand or so people decide to ski down from Zell, they have the choice of turning round and riding back up to Schmittenhohe or waiting their turn on the bus (which at a capacity of say 200 an hour is going to be a very long wait). To make this link viable, there needs to be a lift up to Asitz on the Saalbach side, huge investment in snowmaking on the run from Polten/Asitz down to Viehhofen (which was only open for 3 days last season), improvements on the Schmitten side (a red ski-route is not going to be suitable for the numbers needed to make these lifts viable) and some thought given to the Schonleiten bottlenecks that already exist at the base station and mid-station. I can see that all this will greatly expand the ski area; I'm resigned to the fact that it will ruin many people's favourite run 68 down to Viehhofen.

Tom W - any way of shrinking the huge map?
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I think we can see the restrictions and possible problems associated with these developments as a reflection that the lift company can only implement their plans step by step. Their budget is no doubt restricted and such developments don't come cheaply (the link to Fieberbrunn is costing about 18 million Euros). So we get ski route 38 first as the run is developed but with the return problems you describe, quinton, initially - I don't expect that many people will ski it, maybe just local friends with two cars who can organise a shuttle. Later comes the lift, which will make the run more attractive and practical for repeats for skiers from Zell. And finally a proper link into the Ski Circus, up to the Asitz or maybe on the Schattberg side. I guess we'll have to wait a little longer until the lift company makes their plans known officially to find out what they are thinking of.
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My concern is that they seem to be focused on getting increasing numbers of people into the ski circus (particularly via the new gondola from Leogang, currently under construction), without increasing the size of the Saalbach-Hinterglemm ski area, and without doing much to address the potential bottlenecks.
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http://issuu.com/saalfeldenleogang/docs/2014_hochhinaus_web?e=3995134/9540549 - this newspaper / magisine tells about the plans of expansion to zell am see and fieberbrunn, I think. if anyone is good at German could you explain it?
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Saalbachsnowhead, The magazine (Hoch hinaus) is the annual marketing circular from the Bergbahn.

On page 3 it does indeed say that from 2015-16, Fieberbrunn will be fully integrated into the Saalbach-Hinterglemm-Leogang Ski Circus, through the investment in a 10-seater gondola. This will increase the Ski Circus by another 11 lifts, making a total of 67. The piste kilometres will increase from 200 km to 240 km.

There's no mention of the Zell am See link - but then last year's edition made no mention of the Fieberbrunn developments.
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Sounds great. Fieberbrunn runs look good. Total there is now showing 35km so I would assume some new runs will be built as well!
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