 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi All,
I've just booked a trip to zell/kaprun for christmas week. My sister is the best skier amongst us and is interested in trying off piste skiing (with a guide/instructor) but has just read something about off-piste being banned in Austria this season. I haven't read anything about this, could anyone confirm or deny it?
Also, Snowgod, you recommended me an excellent ski instructor in zell for last year - axele who really helped my girlfriend learn to ski. She's not doing the ski season this year, could you recommend any other instructors in zell?
Thanks for you help
R
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Where did she read this? I find it very hard to believe.
Certainly they couldn't ban off piste with a guide - that would put all the guides out of business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
hi, she read it somewhere on ifyouski.com but i haven't been able to find it.
I think it's probably rubbish and may have been a story from the backend of last season but just wanted to see if anyone else had heard this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I had never heard of this and have been to Zell many times. However, a quick google suggests that officially off-piste skiing in Zell Am See is all but banned by the local council, for conservation reasons, and that your lift pass can be revoked if you contravene this. However, if it is true, I am not sure how the ski schools would be able to give off-piste lessons.
Not sure how it would be enforced but perhaps someone might be able to shed some light. We've done bits but honestly haven't found the off-piste opps in Zell to be that extensive as a lot of the slopes are quite densely forested. Not to say there is none, but we tend to go elsewhere for that.
I have to say, if it really is against the local laws, then they don't seem to make it very apparent. All I have seen are small signs with cartoon characters of people skiing through trees and 'Es ist auch Ihr Wald' (it's also your forest), which seem to be more of an encouragement to be sensitive to the environment than an outright ban.
Don't know if the local law extends to the glacier, but there's lots of unpisted snow there 
Happy sliding 
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I looked on "ifyouski" and there doesn't seem to be anything recent. If it was true it would be big news on all ski forums...and it isn't.
See if she can give us a URL or other reference but I reckon it must have been a speculation at most, or a ban in a few areas of a particular resort (for example where planting new trees - which would be normal).
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 28-09-07 11:25; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Last time I was in Zell which must be 15 years ago, I do seem to remember our instructor telling us that off piste was banned, particularly on the face down into town from the Schmittohne(sp?). At the time being a novice didn't really understand much about off piste or what it was
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think though that if it's a local thing that has been in place for some time, then it wouldn't be big news. I stumbled across it by googling, but I don't think it's 'news' as such.
D
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've come accross a couple of places in Austria where skiing through the trees is banned to preserve the woodland and wildlife not heard of anything else though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Deliaskis wrote: |
| 'Es ist auch Ihr Wald' (it's also your forest) |
It is also their forest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure if off piste is officially banned in Zell, but they can be quite strict about skiing in the forests (for conservation reasons and also not to scare the deer population as this upsets the hunters!). As for getting a ski instructor to take you off piste, as they can be quite strict about where you can ski, a ski instructor will only be able to take into on the marked offpisted areas such as the Rodeo, or Buckelpiste in Zell, and theLangwied ski route in Kaprun. But, only ski instructors with the relevant qualification (Alpinkurs) are permitted to do this (and this is taken at the third level of the qualification in Austria, so not all instructors have it).
The other thing do do is to hire a local guide, or 'Skifuhrer' who can take you anywhere really, and they will offer ski tours (many of them do offer off piste training, but are not the typical red and white wearing instructors, and will expect a certain level of skiing ability). I know a couple of guides so PM me if you want some more info.
Of course, all this is dependent on if you have the right snow conditions when you're there!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| davidof wrote: |
| Deliaskis wrote: |
| 'Es ist auch Ihr Wald' (it's also your forest) |
It is also their forest. |
Oops sorry, too sleepy this morning!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
nice one, thanks for the replys - I think she must have misread something and got confused.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| nice wrote: |
Of course, all this is dependent on if you have the right snow conditions when you're there! |
No it doesn't (unless the lifts are all closed due to huge snow falls - which is extremely rare).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Mmm, not a lot of fun skiing grass if all the snow is man made.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Deliaskis wrote: |
| I think though that if it's a local thing that has been in place for some time, then it wouldn't be big news. I stumbled across it by googling, but I don't think it's 'news' as such. |
The original post cited Austria, not somewhere local. However any local general-ban needs to be better known.
On the Sella Ronda area, on the area North East of Arraba, there were signs saying "no off piste skiing". However it turned out that they didn't really want to know if you did: it seemed to be just a way of absolving themselves of responsibility for what happened to you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
In my experience, the Austrians a far more protective of their forests than the French. That's not to say that it's banned outright but there are definitely lots of forested areas that they don't like you to ski in.
Of course there are many off-piste opportunities other than in the trees, to which I've seen little discouragement, except on grounds of personal safety, in Austria.
I'd be interested to know if Zell stands out in anyway in this respect though - are they tougher than surrounding resorts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Of course, be wary of local places that resorts like to set aside, and they may have good reason for it, but an absolute ban is nonsense IMV.
Woodland is one area that they like to protect from skiers who can damage young trees and also animal habitat is another. An Avi zone is another place you should be briefed about and all these need due respect but I'd be very surprised if there was much more to it than that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
davidof wrote:
Deliaskis wrote:
'Es ist auch Ihr Wald' (it's also your forest)
It is also their forest.
Oops sorry, too sleepy this morning!
|
"Es ist auch Ihr Wald" is "It is also your forest"
"Es ist auch ihr Wald" would be "It's also their forest" 
Tree skiing is also banned in Vorarlberg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I love tree skiing. Certainly not all forest areas in Austia are forbidden. How are the forbidden areas marked? Is there a rope or fence around them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| snowball wrote: |
| I love tree skiing. Certainly not all forest areas in Austia are forbidden. How are the forbidden areas marked? Is there a rope or fence around them? |
There are clear signs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not restricted to Austria - I know of areas in CH that are nature reserves. Yes you CAN ski them like you CAN speed on the motorway etc but a fine may result. Don't know of criminal or civil law status of the provisions.
Again don't know the precise legal status but there are ski areas in the US where ducking the rope is against county or state law & cops wait at the bottom of certain outlets to haul people in on occasion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
snowball,
| Quote: |
I love tree skiing. Certainly not all forest areas in Austia are forbidden. How are the forbidden areas marked? Is there a rope or fence around them?
|
This is how they do it in Vorarlberg (in german) - http://www.respektiere-deine-grenzen.at/pdf/winterflyer_respektierede.pdf
The idea is to get people to think about the effect they have on the wildlife so that they don't have to put horrible fences up everywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
However I don't speak any German and as far as I can see it doesn't say you can't ski there. So I don't see how they can fine you for skiing there. Guides regularly take me skiing through trees in Austria as in all other countries - though perhaps not ones with that sign. .They must have to put a huge number of them up so you can see one wherever you come to the edge!! I notice that the article is illustrated with nice pictures of people skiing in the woods which seems to suggest it is OK
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 28-09-07 19:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I wonder if they nail the notices to the trees?!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| snowball wrote: |
| However I don't speak any German and as far as I can see it doesn't say you can't ski there. So I don't see how they can fine you for skiing there. Guides regularly take me skiing through trees in Austria as in all other countries - though perhaps not ones with that sign. .They must have to put a huge number of them up so you can see one wherever you come to the edge!! I notice that the article is illustrated with nice pictures of people skiing in the woods which seems to suggest it is OK |
This tree ban only applies in certain areas typically in ski resorts or areas of high avalanche aboce towns & highways, However it is SPECIFACALY new forest areas.
Ignorance is bliss ?
I thinkignoraance of the law applys in any own country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[quote="stanton"]
| snowball wrote: |
I think ignoraance of the law applys in any own country. |
Yes, of course, but I want to find out, if I come to the edge of a wood and see no signs, if that means I can ski there. I was also pointing out that a sign that doesn't say you can't ski there is a very bad sign if that is what was meant, because one would naturally think one could. I am very unclear why the sign as translated should make me think I couldn't ski there.
In other countries (and perhaps in Austria?) there is usually a rope to demarcate forbidden areas but a rope can also (eg in France) mean "go at your own risk". The signs tell you how to interpret it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Most piste maps show areas that cannot be skied in. Ie nature reserve - no skiing. So check that first.
St Anton for example has lots of forest areas marked on the maps, stating NO SKIING. However these same forests do NOT appear to have signs on themselves, except for the fluffy fox pictures and the 'it's also your/their or their forest' sign (can't remember whether it had a capital I on ihr/Ihr or not). So I had to assume every occurence of this sign did indeed mean DO NOT SKI.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Ignorance is no defense in law in any western country I know ?
I think its pretty obvious not to ski in trees in high risk avalanche areas above residential areas ? This is illegal in all Austrian towns,
Im not sure why question is needed to be asked ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| T Bar wrote: |
| Mmm, not a lot of fun skiing grass if all the snow is man made. |
As tested in Kitzbuhel this year (with a bunch of Germans following as if I was going to miraculously lead them onto snow)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| stanton wrote: |
Ignorance is no defense in law in any western country I know ?
I think its pretty obvious not to ski in trees in high risk avalanche areas above residential areas ? This is illegal in all Austrian towns,
Im not sure why question is needed to be asked ? |
Ignorance of the facts is almost always a defence. Ignorance of the (general) law is not normally a defence. With tis typ of law, the specific areas covered are usually considered to be facts, rather than law, and ignorance (if reaosnable) will very often be a defence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
If it is ALSO their forest that implies it is mine too - which should mean I can go there.
My question derives from actual experiences of being unsure if I could ski in particular areas of trees in Austria. When the piste map tells you, that is obviously a help, but I don't always have one on me (they tend to disintigrate over a few days - assuming I remembered to pick one up).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| iblair wrote: |
| Quote: |
davidof wrote:
Deliaskis wrote:
'Es ist auch Ihr Wald' (it's also your forest)
It is also their forest.
Oops sorry, too sleepy this morning!
|
"Es ist auch Ihr Wald" is "It is also your forest"
"Es ist auch ihr Wald" would be "It's also their forest"
Tree skiing is also banned in Vorarlberg |
Now you mention it the signs I saw were in Caps so maybe they were hedging anyway?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
[quote="iblair"]
| Quote: |
Tree skiing is also banned in Vorarlberg |
I don't think this is true. Just in certain places.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
davidof, good solution, that way we can both be right 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowball,
| Quote: |
I don't think this is true. Just in certain places.
|
You may be right there, but I spent almost 40 days in the Montafon valley last year, which is by far the most major ski area in Vorarlberg, and I can't remember any areas of forest that I felt I was allowed to ski through. Last season was a long time ago now though, so I can't remember exact details
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Unfortunately I don't speak German . What does it say?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sorry snowball but nor do I (speak german), but I think it's basically an off piste specialist based in and around Zell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
