 Poster: A snowHead
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Cheers DB, really interesting TGR link. I didn't mean I was thinking of putting anything touring-y on a reverse camber ski, just that after reading TGR too much I feel I now have to get a reverse cambered ski 
I have an unmounted pair of Scott P4's that I was considering getting Dukes for if I could afford them, but since I have no touring or slack/backcountry experience it's just a pipe dream right now. Will probably look into it further during the course of the season though.
How knackering is skinning up things? What kind of ski characteristics are ideal for it (considering i'm 6"4 and 200lbs~)?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaveC, if you're only skinning for an hour or two, just choose a ski you like skiing with. it's only once you start doing a serious amount of uphill that you should start thinking about compromising between light weight and downhill performance IMO
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, Sums it up nicely. Although i feel that once the later is achieved, Duke would be the first part of my kit to go out the door. I'd rather a Pro Rider with Dynafit than a Trab with a Duke.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, indeed. pro rider with dynafit would probably be ok most of the time. trab with duke would suck all the time
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Is there an absolute need to take the skins off - surely if the ski can be pushed forwards in a walking motion up hill it must be just as possible for it to still slide downhill. I guess perhaps the slip of the ski is better without, but in theory it must be possible to slide downhill with the skins on?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, I guess so, but consider, after the run up, you're tired so have time to take off the skins to return the skis to their designed state, roll a fat...........etc. For small up and downs and traverses, you leave the skins on.
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Megamum, absolutely you want to take the skins off. Think of how slippy a bit of velvet is compared to a pane of glass - that's the kind of difference between having the skins on and off. The skins will slide downhill, but very slowly (and it also sounds like you're skiing over carpet), so you reaaaaaalllly don't want to do it. Remember one of the points of touring with skins is to get to the top of untouched slopes and then have a great time skiing the virgin snow - so you don't want to spoil that. The skins would also get torn if you hit any rocks, and they're not cheap! As SMALLZOOKEEPER says, you do slide downhill on them occasionally if you're on an undulating track. As you have free heels at that time, and the sliding friction is quite high, you have to be careful to avoid undignified face-plants as the ski stops but you don't. The two techniques are to sit as far back on your heels as possible (for very gentle slopes), or to go into a telemark-style pose, i.e. one ski well in front of the other and virtually kneeling down with the back leg (if it gets a bit steeper).
Some skis that do have a sort of permanently fixed equivalent are cross-country, some of which have a fish-scale type base. These again are designed to slide only one way, but I'm told by people who know (like dave horsley) that there is rather too much forward sliding friction for anyone who does XC competitively to use them, but is more common for recreational XC skiers, due to their ease of use. The other technique there is to have skis with a very big and stiff camber, such that the centre of the ski holds itself off the snow when just standing normally, and that bit of the ski is covered with very sticky wax. To walk uphill you then kick the ski down so the sticky wax makes contact with the snow and gives you enough grip to push forward.
I believe you can go up much steeper hills on skins than on XC skis (but am quite prepared for the XC nuts to tell me I'm talking b*****ks).
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| DaveC wrote: |
| How knackering is skinning up things? What kind of ski characteristics are ideal for it (considering i'm 6"4 and 200lbs~)? |
A lot depends on how fit you are in relation to others in the group. Try not to get in a group with a much better fitness level than you otherwise you are always playing catch up and are too knackered to enjoy the descent.
As others have said if you are just doing an hour or so then you can use your 'normal' skis with skins & freeride, duke or dynafit bindings. When you get into multiday tours getting the weight down without compromising the downhill ski performance too much is the general aim. The snow conditions also influence ski choice. I'm trying to find a wider touring ski in this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=29863 although this wide a ski might work for you are an everyday touring ski (as you are taller and heavier).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i think people sometimes keep their skins on if they are skiing roped together (you would only ever do this in shocking visibility) down a crevassed glacier. not something i have ever done and i'm not in a rush to do so!
DaveC, I think P4s would be quite good as a "side-country" touring ski. just slap some touring bindings on and you're ready to go. my tip: there will be lots of fritschi freerides and naxos coming onto the market as people upgrade to the Dukes so you should be able to pick them up reasonably cheaply.
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Arno, I love the consumer society. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Interesting folks - thank you. GrahamN, I really get the point about the free heels and stopping suddenly - It's one of those things that makes perfect sense when you suddenly see in the minds eye what is being described, but it would never have occurred to me as a problem to having free heels despite the huge number of times I have seen discussions and film with skiers with free heels in various disciplines.
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FAQ
