 Poster: A snowHead
|
In case you haven't figured it out yet, I'm kind of a gear geek. I really like to know as much as I can about my gear and how to take care of it myself.
I am deeply embarrassed to admit that the one area I have really missed is bindings.
I sincerely want to know more about the differences in bindings for specific skis.
I have three pair of new skis that need bindings.
One is a boutique ski
Big mountain, park and pipe with a turn radius of 17.5, 125/93/120 - 171cm
The other is a Blizzard Magnesium WC stock SL sli that will take any binder.
The last but certainly not least
07 Atomic Snoop Daddy 88 in the waist
The bindings I have available in my possession:
Marker 1400 piston bindings, have a Marker fat brake available.
Two pair of Salomon S912's with stock brake and fat brake
Look PX12 with stock brake, but may be able to find a fat brake
Okay gear guru's, bring it on. Help me figure out which bindings I want to put on which skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Punt all your bindings & put VIST Speedlock plates on all the skis. You then only need one pair of Speedlock toe & heelpieces c/w with a pair of standard brakes for the SL's & pair of wide brakes for both the Snoop's & the twin tips. Benefit of this are:
- all metal race derived toe & heel pieces, in a DIN range of your choice, with removable colour (or should that be color  co-ordinated covers to match your gear
- higher DIN toe pieces have ability to lock off the vertical release function for use in 'turn or die', cliff hucking or stompin' big switch landings in the park
- able to alter the fore/aft binding position to suit your personal balance point, the conditions or where you're skiing, ie move 'em forward for the park & back for freeride etc
- others can use your skis
- no problem if you change boots to a different sole length
- flat pack skis for easy transportation
- the lift of the plate helps in edging the fatter skis, especially if you're not that tall
- quickly convert to ski to a touring or telemark set-up by clicking in the appropriate interface plate
The benefits of binding plates on piste skis are well known, ie greater leverage allows for faster edge changes, more pressure directed over the edge & removes the chance of boot-out etc. Pretty much everyone agrees with this although very few people actually have a choice as most piste skis come with the manufacturer's ‘hostage' bindings on some sort of rail/plate etc.
It's always been usual to flat mount a powder ski, the thought being that a plate will give a ‘disconnected' feel in soft snow. However, lifting a binding on a ski that you're using in fresh snow will not give you a disconnected feel from the ski/snow unless you're just smearing/skidding all of your turns & never putting the ski on edge. When you're putting the ski on edge, say in variable conditions (which you should do), then a plate will serve the same purpose as it does on piste & actually give you a more connected feel with your edges.
A plate on a wide ski gives the ski a much more solid feeling underfoot. The trick is to use a plate/lift with a soft flex (Speedlock TT or Pro Super Light) that will not hurt your ability to bend the ski, especially at low speeds & in tight places. And of course the added leverage will help when you want to put the ski on edge as well as greatly increasing edge to edge speed.
Another benefit for those with both piste & off-piste skis is that a plate on your wide ski will make it feel a lot closer to your piste ski so acclimatising to your new set-up when you swap skis is less of a problem.
Touring skiers with AT gear (alpine touring) have greater lift on their off-piste skis than most piste skis & no-one's ever heard them complain about lack of feel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
SnowHot, You can get VIST gear from Whiteroom on epic or from Lou's Place in Calgary
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
spyderjon, The Blizzards already have VIST riser plates fitted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| rjs wrote: |
| spyderjon, The Blizzards already have VIST riser plates fitted. |
This particular pair does not
They have the race plate but not the vist plate. I wish they had the vist plate.
Spyderjon, I'm glad you suggested that.
I had seriously thought about mounting the looks on the sl's just because I dont' have fat brakes for them.
They are a ski for my husband and he never goes above a 10 din any way so he can use the 12.
But I wondered about the toe and heel.
Don't the looks pivot more for park and pipe?
How will the vist plate effect the big mountain skis I've ordered.
http://www.bluehouseskis.com//ski-products/product_info.php?products_id=1&PHPSESSID=5b3f98152dc9fc25d3896c89cf6addc5
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
http://www.junkigear.com is a UK dealer of the VIST stuff if you don't want to look abroad (nothing to do with me, hope this doesn't count as advertising)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
spyderjon, damn it, now you've got me liking the look of the VIST stuff - I've got a long enough shopping list as it is, I don't need to make it any worse 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PhilG, Thanks for the Link, but I'm in the States and will actually See Whiteroom in December.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
- the lift of the plate helps in edging the fatter skis, especially if you're not that tall.
- quickly convert to ski to a touring or telemark set-up by clicking in the appropriate interface plate
The benefits of binding plates on piste skis are well known, ie greater leverage allows for faster edge changes, more pressure directed over the edge & removes the chance of boot-out etc. Pretty much everyone agrees with this although very few people actually have a choice as most piste skis come with the manufacturer's ‘hostage' bindings on some sort of rail/plate etc.
It's always been usual to flat mount a powder ski, the thought being that a plate will give a ‘disconnected' feel in soft snow. However, lifting a binding on a ski that you're using in fresh snow will not give you a disconnected feel from the ski/snow unless you're just smearing/skidding all of your turns & never putting the ski on edge. When you're putting the ski on edge, say in variable conditions (which you should do), then a plate will serve the same purpose as it does on piste & actually give you a more connected feel with your edges.
A plate on a wide ski gives the ski a much more solid feeling underfoot. The trick is to use a plate/lift with a soft flex (Speedlock TT or Pro Super Light) that will not hurt your ability to bend the ski, especially at low speeds & in tight places. And of course the added leverage will help when you want to put the ski on edge as well as greatly increasing edge to edge speed.
Another benefit for those with both piste & off-piste skis is that a plate on your wide ski will make it feel a lot closer to your piste ski so acclimatising to your new set-up when you swap skis is less of a problem.
Touring skiers with AT gear (alpine touring) have greater lift on their off-piste skis than most piste skis & no-one's ever heard them complain about lack of feel. |
You don't pay much attention to marketing do you? Some of that was rrrruuubbbiiissssh.
The other point of not having a plate on a ski that you ski in powder is "subtlety" of edging, a plate exaggerates your every movement, the last thing you want in powder.
Plates suck, doesn't matter if you can swap out your bindings or quickly convert to telemark or touring!!! What utter drivel.
Are you suggesting putting an already jacked up AT binder on a plate, just because you can?
Do you have stabilisers on your bike?????????? WTF. Come on Jon, it took you a while to get over the Metrons and now this. Stop it.
The two biggest complaints about AT binders are 1) Height off the ski 2) How burly they are (DIN and general tendency to explode). Which is exactly why Marker Released the Duke. That's what all skiers that tour want... do some market research for a minute will you?
Plates are for people in Lycra. End of.
SnowHot don't put a plate on your Bluehouse skis, it would be a real waste to have such a great ski and treat it like a carving ski. You'll be getting rid of the whole reason of having a quiver of skis like yours (I imagine for you this will be your powder ski), so ski it the way it was designed. Or stick to your uber race carvers mit das uber raiser.
Stick the PX on the SL ski, note it's the newer PX heal so doesn't have the turntable heal anyway.
Some people hate the Marker system, I've used 1600 and 1800 for the last 5 years and never had trouble with them. Personally I don't like the 912s as I find the toe pieces always need adjusting. So put either the Markers or a set of 912s on the Snoops.
Now if you want new gear this winter, go get yourself a nice shiny pair of Marker Jesters for the Bluehouse. Pretty sweet, for an alpine binding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
parlor, you are the second person who told me to put the looks on the SL and throw the 912's away.(and for the same reason)
You're also the second person to recommend the jester for the bluehouse. and You're right! I think that is going to be a sweet ski!
Now, shall I put the marker piston binding on the Snoops?
Why? Why not?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
SnowHot, Looks, even without the pivot heal have good retention and smooth release, ideal for a SL ski.
For me I would ski Marker 1400 over a 912 any day. For the reasons above.
Why not? Just to play devils advocate. Lots of hard skiers claim that Markers have a tendency to pre-release. I ski with my DIN pretty high anyway but have never had issues on Marker Comp 1400, 1200 Demo, Comp 1600 or Comp 1800.
Nothing wrong with Salomon bindings, just a particular floor with the 912. I think the Z12 has sorted this though.
BGA has just spent a little time on the Jesters. First reports back sound good. I haven't skied them but played with them in a shop. Looks like it does what a binding should.
Enjoy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have 912Ti's on my Karmas, they are OK except the toe piece adjusts itself! So long as you know this and have them adjusted every now and then they are fine. I have some Atomic Device ones which are pants on my Supercross skis - always worried they are going to fall off at any moment despite cranking the DIN. I have Rossi (Look PX Ti equivalent) bindings on my Mantras, they are good, stay on most of the time when you want them to, but a little more vague if you have to clip back into them in deep pow.
I'm with Parlor on the plate - I'd really not want a plate on my Mantras or Karmas, perhaps due to a lack of talent, but I prefer the subtle edging in the super-steeps that wide skis and no plate allow - in the steeps you probably don't want to be carving too much anyway, in pow edge pressure doesn't matter. on my Supercross skis on the other hand I do have cheater plates as I want maximum edge pressure in the course.
I keep thinking about getting touring bindings but the height thing puts me off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I wouldn't put a plate on those, however, I love the vist technology!!!
I may just have to put jesters on the bluehouse skis!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
At the risk of getting bombarded by advertising what is Vist technology, is is something like Line's Reactor technology?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Is it the same as a Neox binding - looks pretty similar?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
stuarth, not completely disimillar, but better designed and less liekly to break! Others here, in particular kiwi1, will be able to flesh out further ....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
OK I'll try and keep this really short and I'd like to make it very clear that there are other great bindings out there etc etc . parlor hows that
The speed lock plate is allows the heel and toe piece to come away from the ski in a matter of seconds using a pin system. No tools needed at all. Really don't want to say any more than that as I don't want it to turn into an ad but feel free to PM for more info.
For a pure powder I'd not use a plate but a direct mount binding like the X-free from Vist BUT if I'm really honest I've got a soft spot for Marker duke and jesters and think are works of art.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| SnowHot wrote: |
parlor, you are the second person who told me to put the looks on the SL and throw the 912's away.(and for the same reason)
|
Minimal cost solution:
http://www.threadlockers.com/vibratite.jsp
(I'll take all them binned 912s, yessirree, conveniently dispose of them for ya.)
Wait, Wait, Wait on the Bluehouses until there's a bit of consensus sorted on mounting position. See K2 twintip threads for why.
I would -NOT- put those Markers on the Snoops. The annoying need to clear every vestige of Utah pow or Colorado late-season mix particularly after walking in boots and packing it on is a deal-breaker. Sell them to a racer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Wow, I was away from the computer yesterday and you guys really played along to help out.
Thanks for the input.
stuarth, The vist plate allows for a quick release to have the plate on several pair of skis and easily use the same binding.
I was very impressed with the skis I saw with this system. It also seemed like a well thought out design.
comprex, Thanks for the input.
I have been hesitant to put the Marker piston bindings on the snoops for one reason........weight. It sort of defeats the purpose of a lighter ski, to put a binding on it that carries the weight of this particular binding.
Right now, the majority of props is going to the Marker Jester for the Blue House Skis!
Since I have two pair of the S912's Maybe I'll mount them on the Snoops, and put the PX12's on the SL's for my husband.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
SnowHot,
I've heard the snoops are light but do you know how light (kb or lbs)?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, 3150 g/pr
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DB wrote: |
SnowHot,
I've heard the snoops are light but do you know how light (kb or lbs)? |
06/07 model in 173cm length = 1.69kg each/3.38kg pair
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
