 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
SnowHot, Aaah - wave magic is my alternative - to be honest, I would like to test more but the BL price is just too good to miss.
Megamum, I hope someone answers your questions, I don't know the answers either. as far as regular tuning goes I pass nottingham fairly often so can detour to spyderjon when necessary. I quite fancy having the lesson so I could do it myself. |
First of all..........if you're interested in the wave spice at all, you should read my review posted here.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=638717&highlight=#638717
Second, spyderjon is among the best in regard to ski maintenance. I really like his attitude about doing quality work and helping "us" to have the knowledge to do it ourselves.
Kudos to him for that!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SnowHot, what is base burn?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| SnowHot, what is base burn? |
Someone more technical than I can probably better explain this but I'll try.
The activity of skiing causes friction on the base of the ski, which will also cause heat. If you ski until your wax is worn off, or without waxing, the bases can get dry and scaly looking, similar to a piece of wood that is dried out. When this happens, the best resolution is a base grind to get back to "virgin base material".
Skis with base burn generally don't hold wax well.
Someone smarter than I am can correct me if I'm wrong.
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And there was I thinking that wax was an optional extra, something one may choose to apply to improve the skis performance.
Save for exceptional conditions, isn't it fair to say that skis natuarlly go too fast for most of us anyway, that's why we spend so long figuring out how to turn them ?
I just find that spending the best part of £400 for new skis they should be 'ready to go' for 80% of recreational skiers ? In the past I've bought several pairs of skis, and a board, and at no time has any retailer suggested waxing before use, although that was an option on my recent Ski-Bilek purchase.
Is this 'pre-waxing' notion a recommendation from the ski manufacturers?
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Do you get base burn on snow?
I always presumed that plastic did heat damage so waxing is very important even if only to protect the base but on snow waxing was about getting them to slide well rather than stopping burn - am I wrong?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| roga wrote: |
Do you get base burn on snow?
I always presumed that plastic did heat damage so waxing is very important even if only to protect the base but on snow waxing was about getting them to slide well rather than stopping burn - am I wrong? |
Base burn can and does happen on snow.
There is still friction, otherwise, why would you need to wax to go faster?
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masmith, A well tuned ski/board might well go quicker in a straight line but the skier controls that by completing their turns etc. It's the other benefits that are really desirable:
- easier to turn
- better edge grip
- better glide (for less poling/walking on the flats) -
- reduces wear
These are benefits to all skiers irrespective of ability level. For those who are tackling gnarly lines then a well tuned ski could also have safety implications, ie the ability pivot easily &/or to hold an edge in a 'turn or die' situation. Warren Smith is currently writing a piece regarding this for my website.
Those that doubt the benefits of a well tuned ski/board have obviously never been on one.
BTW, the majority of UK retailers are pretty ignorant on the subject.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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spyderjon, If I am wrong on any point, please feel free to correct me. I love learning more about this stuff and am happy to be used as a bad example. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't doubt the need to look after my investment and they are likely to be over-cared for rather than ignored.
However, I must echo the sentiment made by masmith, above - whilst I accept tht some skiers will prefer to treat a new ski with a temperature specific wax anyway I too would have thought it wasn't asking much of a manufacturer charging those sorts of prices for skis to ensure that they came out with a 'ready to go' general temp wax finish so that you can try them out straight away.
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Megamum, ski manufacture is a very competitve business so the cost of any 'extra' processes done after the ski has effectively been finished, like base cleaning, waxing or sidewall removal, comes striaght off the bottom line. No surprise then that some manufacturers cut back in this area to gain/retain competitive advantage & so satisfy our continuous quest for cheaper products. So it's our fault really.
BTW, the wax doesn't need to be temperature specific, a uni wax will do. Higher level skiers will often do 4/5 wax applications will a soft wax or a specific base prep wax to build up the amount of wax in the base.
If you think this is all a bit anal, to put it in perspective a World Cup race tech tuning speed skis (ie DH/SG) with probably perform about 50 wax cycles with loads of brushing in between before the skis ever hit the snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, Is there a thread on here about the process of waxing?
I know we've discussed it on Epic in detail, including brushing and corking, and scraping, oh my!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SnowHot, I had a look at spyderjon's, web-site last night (follow the links he gave above for those products) and there is some really useful info on how to do all this on the left hand links. (Oh, golly.......am I hooked?!!)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
(Oh, golly.......am I hooked?!!)
_________________
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You mean you still have doubt (about BEING hooked)? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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spyderjon, what's sidewall removal?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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holidayloverxx, Used mine straight out of the box. You and me, red hot skiers we aint. Trust me I'm not a doctor, they will be fine. Save your dosh and get them serviced by spyderjon after the first week. Skiers like you and be aren't going to bug-up a decent pair of skis in 6 easy days skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I JUST BOUGHT THEM!!!! Burnin' Luv 153cm, previous season, incl bindings, mounted and delivery £225.00.....me very happy
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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holidayloverxx, Well done. If this thread's anything to go by, mine are going back.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shopping list for Lockwoods on boot fitting day.... Poles, wax, bag, de-burring stone....anything else (apart from boots  )
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holidayloverxx, If you're looking for a bad influence to help bend the credit card you're going with the right person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| . (Oh, golly.......am I hooked?!!) |
Is this the first recorded use of the word "golly" this millennium?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SnowHot wrote: |
Base burn can and does happen on snow.
There is still friction, otherwise, why would you need to wax to go faster? |
Fair point, as a not particularly scientific bod I just presumed the snow cooled the base even if there was friction but I stand corrected
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| SnowHot wrote: |
| Base burn can and does happen on snow. |
You need to make sure you have something to sit on...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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holidayloverxx, way to goooo.............I missed the post, join the bad influence club, how many more girlies can we corrupt into ownership? It sure feels good doesn't it - don't forget to post piccies when you get them. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jerry wrote: |
| SnowHot wrote: |
| Base burn can and does happen on snow. |
You need to make sure you have something to sit on... |
OOOF!
I'll keep that in mind for the future!!!
Thanks!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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spyderjon, thanks for the tip 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| spyderjon, what's sidewall removal? |
Have a quick read of this .
On some makes of ski the sidewall needs trimming back before any hand sharpening/polishing of the edges takes place as the sidewall snags on the tools. The very popular K2 Recons is an example of this. If you have a shop tune then this isn't required as the edge grinding machine grinds the sidewall at the same time as grinding the edges.
holidayloverxx, the factory edge angle spec on your Burnin' Luv's is 0.5,2 which as you now know from reading the link above means a 0.5 degree base edge angle & a 2 degree side angle. It's important to remember this so that you can specify these angles to the shop/tech when you want them servicing as if you don't they'll just put the skis through their machine on their default setting (usually 1,1 or 1,2) & that increase on the base edge angle will noticeably change the characteristics of the ski (you'll have to tip it more to engage the edge in the snow) as well as removing material unnecessarily. And if the side edge is reduced to 1 degree it will reduce edge grip & again is removing material unnecessarily.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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spyderjon, Ok, I get it - can you remember for me
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, OK, I'll bite and be cheeky with it - how about my Wave Magic angles or is there a website I can look them up on please?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon,
| Quote: |
It's important to remember this so that you can specify these angles to the shop/tech when you want them servicing as if you don't they'll just put the skis through their machine on it's default setting (usually 1,1 or 1,2) & that increase on the base edge angle will noticeably change the characteristics of the ski
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That's a bit alarming. I've never said anything to a shop/tech, other than 'please service these skis', on account of not having a clue what to tell them.  Any chance of your letting me know whether I have to memorize something to tell a shop about my Head iXRC 800s (other than advising them to wear sunglasses against the horrible colours - including ORANGE, Megamum! - but they wouldn't go with your gear, they're bright blue/orange, not black/orange.)
Another question. When I bought those skis a couple of years ago, I hardly did any off-piste, and I've been satisfied with their performance on piste. I'm going to try and do some more off-piste next season - do you think I'll have trouble with them? (Crosses all fingers, on account of not wanting to buy any new skis.)
Thank you and sorry for dumb questions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, Elan's factory spec tends to vary from model to model & they just quote 0.5 to 1 for the base edge & 0 to 2 degrees for the side edge. I've not tuned any Wave Magics so don't know the factory angles however charatanefc's Elan Magfire 8 came with a 1,2 set up. I've a
database on my website that I keep up to date so I'd suggest you ask Gavin at Elan what the WM's angles are or that get your local store to measure them when you get 'em waxed. When you get the info I be grateful if you could let me know so I can update my site.
EDIT:Snowhot, just remembered you've got Wave Magic's. What are the factory angles, although being a good tuning geek I'm sure you've put a 3 degree side angle on them by now
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 17-09-07 23:02; edited 2 times in total
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AxsMan, thanks - yellow and orange - not this seasons which are more red I think.
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Yup, those are the ones - look coooool! And (more importantly!) Mrs Axs found them MUCH better than her old rossis, particularly in icy conditions. They gave her a huge confidence boost. She also leaves me in her wake now c'est la vie!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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AxsMan, I have never liked Rossis either
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FAQ
I've always just used my skis straight out of the plastic. Well, I get the bindings added I suppose. Maybe that's why they only last around 120 days?
