 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Wondering if there is a consensus on whether to scrape skis after waxing, or just ski on them, for plastic slopes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
On a dry (ie not wet/frosty/misted/whatever) dendix slope freshly waxed skis will hardly move at all  Being lazy I just tend to ski on mine until the wax is polished off by the slope, but I guess some degree of wax removal/polishing beforehand would help. Alternatively a liberal application of Mr Sheen on top of the "hard" wax would perhaps allow the lazy method to work with less effort?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
rob@rar, I use the Polar X fluoro hard wax, then do a sort of "half scrape" - i.e. scrape off the rough surface so the wax surface is just nice and shiny smooth (no worries about contact suction on a toothbrush), but don't worry about brushing out to reveal the base structuring. Then liberally apply Notwax. First run down may be a bit sticky if it's really hot. Third run it's pretty slippery, and that lasts most of the session. Carry Notwax for topup applications if you feel the need for speed. Unfortunately, if the misting's not on and it's a summer's day/evening one foot skiing is always accompanied by the gentle aroma of burning Ptex - only time that's really on the cards is when there's plenty of morning dew. The misting should come back on in a month or so though. I've not tried Mr Sheen myself (instead I use Tesco's washing-up liquid in addition to the Notwax for slip out of the start - although that does reduce sideways grip a bit), but it's is a hardy perennial at the top of all race slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
No need for any scraping at all in my opinion. If you're carving on the dryslope the majority of the wax will certainly be gone after 10 minutes, and it's much less effort than scraping. Make sure you use a really hard wax like CH4 (I believe polar x is similar). I'd only advise scraping off for a race, and only then if you do your warm up on different skis - otherwise they should be just about ready for whatever else you want on them after the warm up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
rob@rar, for training GrahamN's half scape is ideal but do it whilst the PolarX is still warm as it cools to match the consistency of granite! Brush for racing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Brush for racing. |
Even for plastic?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, Ditto spyderjon, (though it don't help me much  ) For training, other than getting a better glide, you are mostly interested (IMHO) in preserving the base of the ski. Polar-X or CH4, Notwax and then (for a race) Sheen or whatever on the top. You don't need to scrape as much as for snow.
The MOST important thing is to keep those edges sharp !
Why not enter for Bromley ? You'll then see the true madness of ski prep for dryslopes !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ski wrote: |
| Why not enter for Bromley ? You'll then see the true madness of ski prep for dryslopes ! |
It's just a bit too soon. I'd like to improve the chance of not making a complete arse of myself before I submit my skiing to the brutality of the timing wand. But next season I think I'll be up for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Brush for racing. |
Even for plastic? |
Yep. Without fully brushing the skis take 2/3 runs to get up to full speed (As Graham said above) but for a race you want them to be at their fastest straight out of the start gate.
Although if you don't fully brush for a race you can use it as an excuse afterwards 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Data Polar-X, ironed in well, seems to do the job for me with a light scape to get the surface smooth(ish), I also quite often also add one or a combination of their Super Slip Cream Wax, Super Slip Powder and Soft 'n' Slippy Fluoro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
| rob@rar, for training GrahamN's half scape is ideal but do it whilst the PolarX is still warm as it cools to match the consistency of granite! Brush for racing. |
Yes, sorry, forgot to mention that. I iron it in for about 5 minutes per ski - then the first one is just the right temperature to scrape when you've finished the second. Leave it another 10 minutes and nothing much is going to come off. But do be very careful with the temperature of the iron, I was clearly doing it a tad hot as I was getting slightly raised bubbles (about 1-2cm diameter) down the base, principally under the binding plate. Dropped the temperature about 10 degrees to 125, at which point the wax only just melts and the bases now seem fine.
I don't differ in the scrape for racing or training - although I may leave a bit more depth on if the weather's looking particularly hot and dry - as I don't (this week anyway have separate race and practice skis. The one difference I do normally make though when preparing for a race (although I forgot to for Saturday) it to put on a layer of Notwax first and let it soak into the base before starting the hotwax. The Notwax then bubbles into the hot wax and produces a slipperyer surface to the granite - I guess I'm effectively upping the fluoro content of the wax - and that feels fantastic on about the 3rd or 4th run.
roga, after wondering what to do with it for a year or so, painting that graphite Data powder on as part of the startgate prep seemed to work pretty well, until I ran out of it. It does make a fair mess though, particularly if you don't keep the skis away from your clothing (note to club strip designers - think twice or three times before having a large amount of white in your uniform!). I did once try painting it on before the hotwax, so it would mix in in the same way the Notwax does. That didn't seem to do such a good job - and just made it look as if you'd been skiing through mudpats. As with most of these arcane tweaks though it's probably more psychological than actual. I've still got a couple of tubes of that Super Slip Cream stuff - but have no real idea how to use it. The one time I did try it I was about a second slower than usual  !
I actually paid fairly close attention to what was happening to the bases of my skis on Saturday. After the 3 practice runs their outer thirds were nicely polished and structure coming to the fore, but the wax was still fairly much in evidence down the middle of tip and tail. By the sixth run the structure was all well in evidence, and the miscellaneous fine scuffs and scratches starting to show. Now (following the head-to-heads) the scuffs are the dominant visible feature (other than the gouges ). So that sounds about right.
Remember though that on a turny course you spend so much time about as for onto your edges as you can get, so what's going on the bases is mostly pretty irrelevant as far as speed goes - once you've got past the first 10-15m or so and are up to speed. One of our fast guys actually spends as much time cleaning up his sidewalls as he does the bases!
A couple of months ago we did try out in practice a few different start-gate recipes. In various combination we had Notwax, ClearGlide, Tescos value washing-up liquid and (IIRC) the Blue gunge. The ClearGlide definitely felt fastest for the first 40 metres of a fairly steep straightish course, on a pretty hot dry surface. But it then suddenly ran out, almost pitching us onto our faces. Having a layer of Notwax underneath kept the skis sliding smoothly for about 200m (i.e. 2 runs) though. The Tescos and Blue gunge both felt pretty fast for the first 3 gates, but again ran out fairly suddenly - but the Tescos felt as if there was substantially less edge-grip (it's more fluid and leaks onto the edges). Next year I expect I'll be mostly on the Blue gunge .
| ski wrote: |
| The MOST important thing is to keep those edges sharp ! |
Yep - I sharpened them five times this last week (once each before training, practice and each timed race run). Unsurprisingly, my "new" skis' edges have now worn down by over 50% since I bought them at the beginning of June . Fortunately I think Rob's Fischer skis have harder edges than mine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| GrahamN wrote: |
| .....I sharpened them five times this last week.... |
Music to my ears 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Thanks all, very useful. Absolute speed isn't my priority for the time being, so protecting the bases and making them run a bit smoother is what I'm looking for.
While I have your attention, what's your routine for keeping edges sharpened? The secondhand skis I've just bought for use in the UK had reasonable good edges, but not especially sharp. I've just paid a visit to Spyderjon's emporium for a couple of diamond stones and a file (and all the guff that goes with it). I've filed and 'stoned' my edges and they are now fairly sharp, but was wondering how often you do anything more than just touch them up with a diamond stone? If I file them every week the edges won't last the year out I suspect!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
rob@rar, I've found how often you need to sharpen depends on how much you need the grip (dead obvious), which is related to how fast you're going and how tight are the turns you're making. The rate at which the edge goes off also depends on how hard you're skiing. When I could no longer hold edge angles that I was maintaining earlier then the file came out, so as I've improved and skied harder the frequency of sharpening has gone up. When really pushing it, I can now feel the edge go off after no more than 2-3 runs  . I've only upped the sharpening to more than once a week though in the last couple of months (always with a file). I probably did them only once a week from Jan-May, and as little as once a month last autumn/early-winter. Once October comes, I think/hope that we'll be spending the next few months on lower speed technical exercises, so possibly the edge will need to be less keen (and dull less quickly). Also, as the experts say that the better you are the better you can hold onto a blunt edge, I'm going to deliberately keep them a bit less sharp to work on precisely that, and expect to use primarily the stone rather than file. We'll see .
My Fischers lasted 2 years before I really needed some new ones. These Dynamics will be lucky to make 6 months (but to be fair I'm skiing them way harder).
Of course, Terry will be happy to sell you a super-duper new file that (he claims) takes off far less metal per sharpen. A snip at only £39!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
rob@rar, Keep them sharp ! Assuming you train for a couple of hours, you'll need to do them every week or so. My old Rossi's used to go off after 3 runs , the Heads lasted about a couple of hours and the Dynamics are somewhere between. If you mark them you can even the wear out between them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
rob@rar, We've found that its very much skier weight that determines how much to scrape off for training. My son can ski happily on a flattened coating of wax; the wife like it partly scraped; as a big lump I need to get most of the excess cleaned off if I am to go anywhere. All our skis need the edges done after each 90 minute training session.
We have recently gone over to the Rydings 4mat wax which is even harder than polar X (IMO). At races this is brushed, notwaxed a couple of times and then coated in the start hut with Ideal clear gel. Edges are rubbed with a ceramic pin thing between each run. Pedant, moi 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
For plastic - just scrape the skis so there is no wax on the edges and the base is smooth. Before racing lay the ski flat on the matting and gently push the ski along (holding the brakes out of the way) until you feel a lack of resistance. Now you can apply Mr Sheen or Zardoz (it last about 5 metres) or washing up liquid (eco friendly of course) or wire pulling lube.
What ever you do, you'll still finish 10 seconds behind David Ryding!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Nick W, i have heard you mention the ceramic sharpening tool, where can you get a hold of them.... Ineed to buy some wax as well and if it comes from the same place would be cool...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Nick W, i have heard you mention the ceramic sharpening tool, where can you get a hold of them.... Ineed to buy some wax as well and if it comes from the same place would be cool... |
skimottaret, here for a ceramic stone, but you already have 200grit & 600grit Moonflexes so unless your racing I wouldn't bother with the ceramic. And here for PolarX. Most of my customers go for the ceramic stone to the 'pin' (proper name is a Kunzmann 3255 Ceramic Ultra) as the Ultra is a freehand tool whereas the stone fits both a side edge & base edge guide. The Ultra is also £7 dearer. My personal preference to a ceramic is a 1500grit Moonflex.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
skimottaret, The two pin ceramic device came from the great Bartletts who also sell a wide variety of mat waxes. The 4matwax comes from the Rydings oop north. For anyone new to dry slope slalom / racing a trip to Bartletts is a must.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Sorry to pick up an old topic I was searching the forum on an related topic and came across this:
| spyderjon wrote: |
| GrahamN wrote: |
| .....I sharpened them five times this last week.... |
Music to my ears |
Isn't there a limited of time the edges can be sharpened and we should only sharpen as needed?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@euanovsky, That would have been a tickle up between runs on plastic dry slope to get the most performance possible
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@euanovsky,
| Quote: |
Isn't there a limited of time the edges can be sharpened and we should only sharpen as needed?
|
Yep --- but we need them to be very very sharp for the dryslope racing. After an hour of training mine will have gone off enough to need to be filed again. When there is no longer any edge left, time for new skis!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Like 
