 Poster: A snowHead
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Switzerland: Europe's heart of darkness?
Not a Daily Mail headline but from the Independent 
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| Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become Europe's heart of darkness? |
full story is here
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nothing new in this. A model for the rest of Europe to follow 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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into poland usually
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Switzerland is a small country with porous borders. Uncontrolled immigration could easily change the very essence of the country: one of the most democratic in the world. I see advantages in immigration (I think the UK has benefited from recent Eastern European migration), but a nation must have the right to keep it under some kind of control.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Countries cannot sustain mass immigration and take this to an extreme half the world would migrate to a 'better life'
And where will most of that migration go to... ?
If you take the UK..a 5% increase will need all sorts of upgrades on infrastructure ( homes, roads, etc etc ) in an already overcrowded country..it doesn't take a genius.... 
Switzerland
Nice mountains, nice country
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 7-09-07 9:26; edited 1 time in total
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I think it's important to realise that the Swiss have always been somewhat xenophobic, however to be fair to them many Brits would like to be able to bring in some of their proposed new laws, already we supposedly have the right to deport imigrants from the UK who have broken our laws, I'm also sure that many people would agree that parents should at least until their offspring reach 16 or 18 be held partially responsible for their behaviour and I know that many UK residents object to the apparent ease with which imigrants seem to be able to access the UK benefits system, sadly I will also admit that many Swiss, especially those outside of the bigger cities, are also a little racist, one of my favorite cakes in Switzerland is an example it's called a morenkopf (sp?) or moors head, or literaly "Black Mans Head". I'm not sure exactly why this should be, but I suspect that it is at least in part down to the fact that they've not had anything like the imigration issues that other European countries have had over the last 50 years
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Switzerland: Europe's heart of darkness?
Not a Daily Mail headline but from the Independent
| Quote: |
| Switzerland is known as a haven of peace and neutrality. But today it is home to a new extremism that has alarmed the United Nations. Proposals for draconian new laws that target the country's immigrants have been condemned as unjust and racist. A poster campaign, the work of its leading political party, is decried as xenophobic. Has Switzerland become Europe's heart of darkness? |
full story is here |
The usual biased reporting. Words like 'extremism' and 'unjust' tell you exactly what line the article is going to take. So political parties 'lurch' to the right. Presumably a different verb is appropriate if they move towards the left ?
The Independent would do well to look at laws in the countries from which these immigrants come from before rushing to print.
There is nothing wrong with special rules to handle people you let into the country for purely economic reasons.
'Gastarbeiten' who are disenfranchised and can be sent home when the economy turns down would be a beneficial idea for the settled population.
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| Quote: |
Countries cannot sustain mass immigration and take this to an extreme half the world would migrate to a 'better life'
And where will most of that migration go to... ?
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We went to France.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I heard somewhere that the Switzerland population was the most diverse in Europe with 20% of residents being born outside the country.
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When I worked in Zurich as a Gastarbeiten I was certainly paid less than the 'proper Swiss' doing the same job. However at the time I certaily didn't consider it to be discrimination.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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brian
brian
Guest
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What's this doing in "Resorts" 
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brian
brian
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| sadly I will also admit that many Swiss, especially those outside of the bigger cities, are also a little racist, one of my favorite cakes in Switzerland is an example it's called a morenkopf (sp?) or moors head, or literaly "Black Mans Head". |
A chocolate coated ice cream wafer is traditionally known here as a "black man". Plenty racists everywhere unfortunately.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As far as the Swiss cake is concerned I don't think it was ever intended to be racist, but like many things from past eras what wasn't really racist then we now regard as being racist today, I suspect originally it was given the name because it does in fact look very like a bald headed black/black head, the Swiss don't seem to do the whole PC thing, I'm still not sure weather or not that's a bad thing
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Poster: A snowHead
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D G Orf, merely calling a bun a 'Moor's head' (or an ice cream wafter a 'black man')can hardly be called racist - that sort of nonsense just trivialises a serious issue. The poster campaign, on the other hand, would make any foreigner in Switzerland feel uncomfortable, regardless of why they were there - I saw one last week, found it a bit rude, really.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My family call me a black sheep because I'm not a farmer like the rest of them. Doesn't mean they're racist. I don't think the swiss intended to be racist either.
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brian
brian
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This is one of the SVP's posters. It is pretty blatant.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I don't think the swiss intended to be racist either.
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Of course the Swiss are racist. So are lots of people/countries but they are pretty blatant. I once interviewed a black girl at the Civil Service Selection Board, born and brought up in the UK, spoke no other language than English and the French/German she had learnt for a joint languages degree. Adopted by white doctor parents. Said she had never been bothered by anything she considered "racist" till she and two (white) friends went to work in Switzerland, in hotels, in a gap year. She spoke good French and German and was, as it happens, quite stunningly attractive. She had hoped to get some "customer facing" experience to improve her languages, but was put cleaning rooms. Fine, she was happy with that for the first few weeks, but when both her friends had done spells waitressing, and even on reception at quiet times, and she asked if she could do the same, she was told, straight out, that she could only be allowed to work behind the scenes as the customers (who got the blame) would prefer it that way. She left, and went to the French Alps, and just focussed on her French. The Swiss have got some pretty murky habits, if you look into the benefits of their "neutrality" and what happened to lots of Nazi looted money. And didn't women there get the vote long after most Europeans? They have strong qualities too, and a beautiful country, but to suggest that they are not racist is to put head in sand. But I agree a "racist" cake is a nonsensical thing to get faffed about.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From the horses mouth. I've got some Swiss friends living outside of Switzerland. It's their opinion that the "average" Swiss are quite conservative, which partly includes being racist to various degree!
The excuse they gave is, Switzerland has done quite well by NOT following whatever the "fashion" of the rest of Europe (facist for one) the last couple centuries. So they don't have strong incentive to be more "progressive" or "open" or "pollitically correct", etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... And didn't women there get the vote long after most Europeans? |
1971 for some elctions.
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| pam w wrote: |
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I don't think the swiss intended to be racist either.
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Of course the Swiss are racist. |
This is an utterly disgraceful post and I'd hoped in the 4 hours since you posted it you might have reflected and removed it. To label seven and half million people as racist on the basis of a second hand anecdote is appalling. Would you like to say that never, ever happens in the UK? If it did just once would it fair to call you a racist by association?
In truth the average Swiss is far more concerned if their neighbours are using the correct bins for the recycling than their race, colour, country of birth, sexual preferences or religion.
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Actually I think the Swiss are more xenophobic than racist, it's just a heck of a lot easier for them to be xenophobic about non Swiss who are not white because they can pick them out before they even open their mouths, they also don't like change which is why they tend to be conservatives, having said that I would also like to say that I've got to know a lot of Swiss people over the years and in general I'd say that they are some of the nicest people I've ever met
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise, that poster campaign is at best xenophobic and could reasonably be seen as downright racist. But it's still ongoing, which suggests that the Swiss don't have a problem with it.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Unsurprisingly I don't think the Swiss are culturally that different to the rest of Western Europe, Geneva doesn't feel that different (and is as cosmopolitan as) French cities across the border. The remote rural parts are as typically conservative as remote rural parts of anywhere else.
Heightened awareness of culture/race/immigration is hardly unique to Switzerland these days, is it ?
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brian
brian
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Lizzard, the response of the Social Democrats
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| ise, that poster campaign is at best xenophobic and could reasonably be seen as downright racist. But it's still ongoing, which suggests that the Swiss don't have a problem with it. |
You're familiar with the reaction there's been in the press here then? Or the editorials speaking out against it? Or the many other adverts that have also been placed in protest?
Obviously not.
Which is entirely irrelevant anyway to the appalling charge that the entire nation is racist based on a second hand anecdote.
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| brian wrote: |
Unsurprisingly I don't think the Swiss are culturally that different to the rest of Western Europe, Geneva doesn't feel that different (and is as cosmopolitan as) French cities across the border. The remote rural parts are as typically conservative as remote rural parts of anywhere else.
Heightened awareness of culture/race/immigration is hardly unique to Switzerland these days, is it ? |
In fact you'll find they are, is there another country in Europe, or the world for that matter, where four distinct groups with their own languages have co-existed for centuries? Maybe the Swiss are rather more tolerant and rather less judgemental than some of their neighbours?
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You know it makes sense.
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| swissinfo wrote: |
On Wednesday Swiss President Micheline Calmy-Rey denounced posters depicting three white sheep booting a black sheep out of the country as "irresponsible" and liable to incite racial hatred.
"I think it is important that there are people in this country who have the courage to stand up and denounce this type of campaign, which to be quite frank disgusts me. It disgusts me because it stirs up hatred. They are racist campaigns," Calmy-Rey, a member of the centre-left Social Democrats, told Swiss-French radio.
The "black sheep" posters underpin a People's Party initiative to expel foreign criminals, which was launched on August 1 – Swiss National Day – three months ahead of October's parliamentary elections. |
| The Times wrote: |
| Last month Gordon Brown said in an interview: “If you commit a crime you will be deported. You play by the rules or you face the consequences.” |
context is everything
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| brian wrote: |
This is one of the SVP's posters. It is pretty blatant.
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No it is not. At the very worst it is a coded message.
The trouble is various phrases and images like 'black sheep', 'black boards' - even 'niggardly' for God's sake, are banned under Newspeak rules these days.
Then neurotic people run around worrying whether or not they contravene one or other sacred '-isms' - instead of whether they are pragmatic or beneficial in their own right.
ise
I thought you went off in a huff last year and took all your posts with you ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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25% of the working population in Switxerland is non Swiss - that's pretty high. 60% (if i recall correctly) of the prison population is non Swiss - also VERY high! Not surprised they want the criminals out once they leave prison, but i doubt that many people have an objection making a substantial contribution to the economy.
However, the propoganda that is being used is despicable - inciting racism in people who probably have very limited understanding of the facts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Latchigo wrote: |
At the very worst it is a coded message.
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That's not what I see. I think its message is obvious. But then I don't believe the BNP when they say they're not racist, just trying to look after the interests of 'British' people.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't think the BNP give a damn if they are called 'racist'.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| I don't think the BNP give a damn if they are called 'racist'. |
No, but that is the least of their problems.
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brian
brian
Guest
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| 25% of the working population in Switxerland is non Swiss - that's pretty high. |
Partly that's because naturalisation is a comparitively long process in CH.
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brian
brian
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brian, You may be a Scot, but that is still no excuse for poor use of the English language.
'Blatant' it is not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| brian wrote: |
This is one of the SVP's posters. It is pretty blatant.
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No it is not. At the very worst it is a coded message. |
Sure, in the same way this sentence is;
Naive, Latchigo, extremely, is.
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FAQ
