Ski Insurance (2)

A snowHead

I did start this post off on SCGB but as we all know .......

After being wiped out in Arinsal this year I think the authorities need to tighten up on those who ski without insurance. It would be simple to show your insurance document before a lift pass is issued. It would only take seconds and at least you would know all those on the slopes are covered. Any thoughts ?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

agreed Alan - otherwise where will it all end?. Take the fun out of it and whats the poiint!

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I've been thinking about this for the last half hour or so, with a proviso I think that it's not a bad idea, the proviso is that I'm concerned about the way you wrote your message, it would appear that you may wish to claim against the person who hit you and I'm not in favour of getting lawyers even bigger bank balences than they already have.

So ... yes I would be in favour of those people buying a lift pass proving that they are covered for accident and rescue, especially if the lift agents could then offer such a package to those who didn't have any.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm entirely in favour of claiming against someone who hits you on skis. The only time I've ever been injured was when I was hit by an out-control woman who shouldn't have been on the slope she was on. I remember Ali Ross personally suing someone who'd run into him and more power to him as far as I'm concerned.

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David@traxvax, but where does that stop, don't get me wrong, in certain circumstances legal action may well be required, what I'm afraid of is a sudden rash of claims, from minor incidents, resulting in unaffordable insurance for the majority, there will always be accidents in snowsports, but we should not target these people for persecution by the courts unless their actions are completely rediculous and without care for others.

2 examples

1. An early intermediate catches an edge and falls down a slope into another person lower down the slope breaking their leg, an honest accident has occured should he be prosecuted for the accident ?

2. An early intermediate comes over a hill and hits a sunbathing snowboarder just beyond the ridge in the middle of the piste, both people are injured, who gets prosecuted ?

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I have just checked the small print in my policy (Liz please note Little Angel

). As I read it I have personal liability cover but no cover for any legal expenses or costs incurred if I am subject to a criminal prosecution.
Anyone know if skiing/boarding dangerously/without due care/under the influence etc etc are criminal offences (as opposed to should be, if not)?

After all it is free

skiing is an potentially dangerous sport and anyone who participates should be aware of that and conduct themselves responsibly when on the mountain. Yes, in a minority of cases, where there is a flagrent dis-regard for the safety of others then a prosecution could be contemplated. But it is a big streach to say that every incident should be litiagable - accidents do happen - even to the most experienced skiers who take all precautions.

Risk is inherent in this game and thats part of the fun. Take that out by bringing in the lawyers at every opportunity and it ceases to be. Our premiums invariable go up as well. Common sense must prevail.

Paul Mason, David@traxvax, a real can of worms you have opened up here - at least I hope so: something meaty for the Monday crowd to get their teeth into.
You got me worried. None of us are perfect. I fall. I turn without warning. I set off without looking. Am I going to be sued each time if as a result someone gets injured?
And what if I fall, a hired ski comes off and slides down the hill to injure someone. Who gets sued then? Me, or the guy who set the bindings?
Of course there are idiots on the slopes who need their goolies boiled in oil (its usually blokes), but so difficult to decide when it is a simple error and when it is a prat. In general: I make simple errors, he is a prat.

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Jonpim, Actually the really dangerous ones are fairly easy for experienced skiers to spot, the trouble is that many European resorts will not remove their ski passes for being prats, if they did that might well all but eliminate the complete beginner on black run situation, after all it then becomes cheaper to get lessons than to buy a new pass/get fined each day.

Generally it's the innocent person who gets hurt by these prats, the prat often getting away without being identified, insurance is all well and good but policing the slopes is often a better solution, if it can be done politely so much the better, dry slopes won't allow beginners to free ski, why should real mountains be any different. A certificate of competance perhaps ?

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Many resorts here do offer (and broadly advertise) insurance included into the lift ticket price...
As for what is truly covered by this insurance...better read the small print

One guy I'd have cheerfully prosecuted a few years ago if I'd been injured: I was returning home on an empty, gentle piste at the end of the day. My piste crossed a much steeper, faster one and a guy completely out of control bombing down the hill hit me full on and sent us flying some way down his piste with him on top. A totally empty mountain and he managed to hit the only other skier (who was moving slowly in a straight line)! I had some big bruises and was badly winded but nothing else. What a prat though! It's like the British army lorry in North Africa that managed to collide with the only tree for several hundred miles in the middle of the desert and kill it.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I have to say that I've been hit twice by completely out of control skiers, however in both cases I got away with it, in one case the person was very appologetic, he'd got onto a red by mistake in bad weather and had lost control, I helped him up and we skied down the run till we got onto the blue run and thereto a restaurant where he wanted to by me a drink, I have no problems with that incident, he'd made a genuine mistake and wanted to appologise. In the other case a severely out of control skier on a bright sunny day managed to hit me from behind and one side, fortunately I stayed up, he carried on down the slope end over end, landing in a heap some 200M further down the slope, breaths were held by all as the onlookers waited to see if he'd get up again, he did and managed to ski over to the chairlift but he looked very shocked, I didn't have the heart to go over and tear him off as I might have done, but I was very lucky that he glanced off me, if his skis had gone betweeen mine I might well have been killed, others on the slope estimated his speed as being anything between 50kph and 80kph Shocked

A snowHead

A snowHead

laundryman, how about a compromise, anyone seen by the piste patrol being a complete idiot must either agree to lessons from one of a list of instructors or have their pass cut up, if after taking lessons and proving they can ski safely they are then spotted skiing dangerosly it would be an automatic ban from the slopes

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Or how about, anyone acting like an idiot gets their ski bases gone over with coarse sand paper, or a damaged file.

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skanky, better yet they have the whole of the length of all the edges sharpend to a razor edge, talk about twitchy skis Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Perhaps they should be expected to ski in a dayglow pink one-piece punishment suit.

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Or given an anchor to carry around. Toofy Grin

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Jonny Jones, with florescent green stripes Twisted Evil

I like it

After all it is free

Many resorts here do offer (and broadly advertise) insurance included into the lift ticket price...
As for what is truly covered by this insurance...better read the small print

Last year Mme. Brain was taken out 3 times on one run... by the same snowboarder! The 3rd time she shouted at him in one ear in English, I shouted in the other in French and, funnily enough, he suddenly acquired enough control of his board to avoid us the rest of the way rolling eyes

What seems to come up over and over is that it's not an issue of technical deficiency but of inconsideration or unawareness of good piste etiquette.

Most new skiers and mnay new boarders begin with lessons. During that first week, while they think they are acquiring the technical skills of their dicipline, any but the worst instructor will have subtly instilled in them the points of good, safe on-piste behaviour.

I have long advocated some kind of basic proficiency test to be passed before progressing off the nursery area. What aspects of technical ability are included or whether one gets a badge, a certificate or a piece of old rope is almost irrelevent. The whole point would be to make sure that no one went up the mountain without at least being aware of how they were expected to behave. And, aware of the potential dangers they face.

I think more and more people are taking to the slopes with nothing more than their mates "showing them how it's done" and those mates either forget or think it's too uncool to talk about how to ski/board safely.

I think the compulsory element need only be one morning, one day maybe - a kind of "Welcome to the mountains, this is how not to die!" thing.

...and as for those who are prepared to skin up the hill themselves without doing the test? I think, by the time they've got to the top, they'll know respect for the mountain Wink

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u brain, I think you showed great control, if it had been me said snowboarder would have exited the mountain via the most verticle route possible

I wonder how much the poor behaviour has to do with where people are taught, my friends were all taught to ski on a dry slope in the UK and none of their instructors gave any coverage of piste etiquette, I know for certain because I was free skiing at the same time, in my case on the first day in resort I took them down a long blue run and covered all the basic safety tips as we went along pretty much your

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U, my sympathy to Mme. Brain. Probably possible to give a farily non-forgeable chip card to new skiers if they passed such a test. But getting the bulk of experienced skiers through it would be a nightmare - so it won't happy. Pity, though Sad

I am amazed how many British skiers give up lessons well before reaching the intermediate plateau. We met a lovely group last year in Les Arcs. Their second week of skiing. They had bought skis off some car booter and had paid good money for them, nice long ones which should be on the wall of some restaurant by now. It was painful to see them on the slopes but they just would not entertain the idea of lessons. Still by the end of the week and much persuasion to ditch the skis they started to enjoy it.

You know it makes sense.

Steady chaps, regulation only if absolutely necessary. Regulation requires administrators - administrators need money - money comes from users - users try to avoid - need more regulator/administrators - costs go up - the law abiding (who on the whole don't need the regulation) pay up - the idiots who do need regulation avoid paying.

Personally I did not have any lessons until I was an intermediate - only option were ESF arrogant overpaid Benz-ze-kneez clots. On the other hand I can read - I can read the code of behaviour which is printed on every piste map - I can read instruction books on how to ski, which meant that I was carving before carving skis as it is all there in the books - on the down side, I hardly use my poles and this has been a bit of a difficulty when I go off-piste.

Surely the problem being stated is an attitude of selfishness and has little to do with competence.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

john wells, probably a little of both, there are some skiers who know they're in the wrong but just don't care, and there are others who don't realise the danger they are putting themselves or others in due to their lack of experience, thus my compromise idea above, if people deliberately cause danger to others then their passes should be taken away, but if it's not intentional they should be given the opportunity to learn how to do things safely

A snowHead

On a steady long undulating blue I had an idiot whip by me at speed far too close. Further on when he was resting I caught up with him and pointed out the error of his ways. Regretably he was British. I reminded him that I could have easily turned into him as I was doing long shallow curves and he would have been toast as I am both short and very heavy. Not sure that he understood though.

A snowHead

I am not looking to claim against anybody. Just think of it like this. Before you can buy tax for your car you have to show a valid MOT certificate.........

If someone hits me on the A1 and I am injured and lose work I can claim. If Jose Alvarez hits me on a blue in Andorra and I lose work the probability is he is not insured. Sorry about the can of worms.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Reminds me of the three british idiots I met a couple of years ago in Wengen, they were walking down a very narrow ski path (for those that know the area the one from the Hirshen to the Caprice hotels) now at this point there is a perfectly good and well maintained road for walkers and a separate ski path both clearly labled as such, because they were waloking in the same direction as the skiers they had no idea of the problems they were causing, I saw one young girl crash behind them because she could not see a way arround them, so i waited for them to get to the end of the track, intending to politely point out the mistake they had made, well they didn't take that too kindly and told me it was none of my damn buisness where they walked and that they had been coming to Wengen for 5 years and were not going to be told by some oaf what to do so why didn't I just f*** off, at that point I got a little upset, I proceded to tell them that I had been coming to the resort for over 30 years and had never seen anyone being so stupid, (not quite true, I've seen worse but not much) furthermore if I ever discovered them doing a similar act (they did claim they knew it was a piste but didn't care that it was for skiers only) that I would ensure that their next trip would be to the nearest hospital. When I get really upset I'm scarry as they found out Twisted Evil

I didn't see them doing any similar acts for the next week or so, so maybe my warning worked.

The moral of the story, it's not just skiers and boarders who do dangerous things on the slopes, watch out for careless walkers and people on tobogans.

Help!!

Ski Insurance (2)

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