 Poster: A snowHead
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little tiger, Hemorrhoid cream should also work well  , but the best remedy is to shove your lip salve stick up yer hooter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Been to both Chamonix and Zermatt (the 2 highest lift served resorts in Europe). Been fine in Zermatt at 3899m, just a bit breathless walking thru the tunnel. Chamonix on the other hand, whereas it was about 50m lower at it's top point, getting out the lift there on l'Aiguille du midi, the floor was moving when we got out of the lift 
Took a half hour sit in the cafe and a brew before we felt ok, but moving round too quick started it off again. The people in the know put it down to the difference in the village (1000m) to the top (3850m) and how quick the lift climbs (a verticle mile in a horizontal mile).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer, we're only at 720m here, and I've never noticed any effect of altitude even during my first season. I meant I don't know why it varies so much from one person to another and what affects tolerance. Seems unrelated to physical fitness.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This is all really interesting reading folks - thank you for sharing your experiences. As Lizzard, notes the experiences here support her observation that it varies a lot from person to person and is largely unrelated to physical fitness as I know has been noted in other threads on the subject. Chasing Easiskis recommendation on the hot drinks front, I wonder if it more than just the imbibing of the fluid that helps or whether it is as much to do with the sugar/glucose and therefore would something sweet to eat like a Mars be helpful too?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, all you want is an excuse to eat Mars bars. 
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Megamum, Nothing to do with intake of suger etc. more having a rest and getting used to the altitude before skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| and is largely unrelated to physical fitness |
The above post would seem to confirm that once and for all 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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They should start serving Coca Tea on the mountain top restos!
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Megamum, We skied VT last year with no ill effects from altitude at all. Earlier at Tignes I had experienced quite bad AMS, which I eventually put down to a combination of factors including dehydration and foolishness  . Drinking plenty of water seemed to do the trick at VT.
The 'conditioning of the legs thread' has more information, but this post probably says enough:
Hi all, now back from Tignes and have done a bit of (web) research on the whole issue of dehydration and AMS (Acute Mountain Sickness)
this site has a mountain  of useful information including:
>>>>>>
AMS is very common at high altitude. At over 3,000 metres (10,000 feet) 75% of people will have mild symptoms. The occurrence of AMS is dependent upon the elevation, the rate of ascent, and individual susceptibility. Many people will experience mild AMS during the acclimatisation process. The symptoms usually start 12 to 24 hours after arrival at altitude and begin to decrease in severity around the third day.
The symptoms of Mild AMS include:
Headache
Nausea & Dizziness
Loss of appetite
Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Disturbed sleep
General feeling of malaise
The site also suggests the following approaches to avoiding AMS:
If possible, don't fly or drive to high altitude. Start below 3,000 metres (10,000 feet) and walk up.
If you do fly or drive, do not overexert yourself or move higher for the first 24 hours.
If you go above 3,000 metres (10,000 feet), only increase your altitude by 300 metres (1,000 feet) per day, and for every 900 metres (3,000 feet) of elevation gained, take a rest day to acclimatise.
Climb high and sleep low! You can climb more than 300 metres (1,000 feet) in a day as long as you come back down and sleep at a lower altitude.
If you begin to show symptoms of moderate altitude sickness, don't go higher until symptoms decrease.
If symptoms increase, go down, down, down!
Keep in mind that different people will acclimatise at different rates. Make sure everyone in your party is properly acclimatised before going any higher.
Stay properly hydrated. Acclimatisation is often accompanied by fluid loss, so you need to drink lots of fluids to remain properly hydrated (at least four to six litres per day). Urine output should be copious and clear to pale yellow.
Take it easy and don't overexert yourself when you first get up to altitude. But, light activity during the day is better than sleeping because respiration decreases during sleep, exacerbating the symptoms.
Avoid tobacco, alcohol and other depressant drugs including, barbiturates, tranquillisers, sleeping pills and opiates such as dihydrocodeine. These further decrease the respiratory drive during sleep resulting in a worsening of symptoms.
Eat a high calorie diet while at altitude.
Remember: Acclimatisation is inhibited by overexertion, dehydration, and alcohol.
<<<<<<<<<
My actual practice this trip was:
Fly into Geneva and drive straight up to Tignes (2100m). Have a bottle of wine the first evening, a glass of orange and a coffee in the morning and ride the funicular straight up to 3000m (in 7 minutes). Walk (uphill carrying skis) to the top of the Rossolin run, and ski down enthusiastically. Forget to carry water bottle so don't drink anything for the first hour.
In the light of my new knowledge this was clearly a recipe for disaster
davidb does any of this ring a bell with you?
On previous trips we have only gone up high after a day or two skiing the lower slopes, and have immediately skied down (since that's the reason for going up in the first place ) The other factor making things worse this time was that with the lower slopes closed, we stayed up on top of the glacier for several hours.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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VT isn't too high so the extreme effects of altitude such as high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) or high altitude cerebral edema (HACE) aren't very likely. HAPE has about a 2% incidence over 3000m but that's for climbers staying at or above that altitude. Anywhere above 2400m (approx) can cause Altitude sickness (or acute mountain sickness (AMS)). So it's not likely the altitude will kill anyone in VT or bad advice for that matter.
AMS symptoms include headaches, fatigue, shortness of breath, nausea, unsteadiness and dizziness, loss of appetite, insomnia, weakness and, rarely, most severely seizure or coma. The transition from mild AMS to moderate AMS is typically accompanied by vomiting which makes a good cue to descend.
What makes the most difference to the mild dizziness that many suffer from is remembering to breathe, specifically to exhale which is a normal reflex response to particular CO2 levels, those levels alter at altitude and the reflex isn't triggered. There's a fall back reflex to breathe related to blood oxygen levels which will fire later and, bizarrely, smoking seems to produce enough excess CO2 to trigger the primary reflex. It's not recommended to take up smoking though
AMS is related to diets, high carb' diets appear to liberate more energy and oxygen compared to lipid diets. It is also related to fluid and sugar intake in answer to your earlier question, specifically warm and sweet drinks are good.
Another data point to consider for groups is that in Nepal figures show that 80% of cases of AMS occur in organised trekking groups which only account for 40% of trekkers. This is taken to suggest that people in groups tend to ignore minor symptoms and continue.
If you're really concerned about this, and there's no need to be, then you can google for the "Lake Louise" AMS score card which you can use to diagnose AMS. Just be slightly cautious, some of the symptoms obviously have other causes.
If you want to avoid it then some advice climbers use for heights above 3000m would be to drink enough fluids, at the risk of being indelicate, to keep your urine pale and plenty. Avoid excess caffeine, salt and protein, some people aim for a 70% carb' diet on expeditions or trips above 3500m.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I get altitude sickness every sunday morning in that case
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sound like the days I decide to go right up 'just for the view' I'll make sure I have plenty of fluids - that's definitely a piece of advice that seems very constant here, and just take it easy if I start feeling a bit 'odd' (though I don't know if anyone would notice!!)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Also just because you have had problems once, doesn't mean you'll get them again. The first time I visited the Alps was Alpe d'Huez (in summer), and I got horribly dizzy and short of breath. Fast forward a few years, and the same height presents no problems at all (phew!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having been there in March I noticed it after running up some steps in the resort centre. I tried to carry on a conversation with someone who'd gone up the escalator and was completely unable to. Took two minutes to get my breath back. Had to head to the nearest bar for some revival juice. It was terrible ..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ise wrote: |
VT isn't too high so the extreme effects of altitude such as high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) or high altitude cerebral edema (HACE) aren't very likely. HAPE has about a 2% incidence over 3000m but that's for climbers staying at or above that altitude. Anywhere above 2400m (approx) can cause Altitude sickness (or acute mountain sickness (AMS)). So it's not likely the altitude will kill anyone in VT or bad advice for that matter.
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Saw HAPE in the film Vertical limit, thought they had just made it up. Seemed really rather unpleasant.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman, no they just made the rest of it up.
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FAQ
Some people feel 1600+ a bit, some don't seem to. I was worried about how a tube-feeding pump (being a dietitian with a disabled patient going skiing) would work at Val Thorens but it and she were both fine 
, although I have suffered from "Disturbed sleep"....but that may have been because i was being kept out late against my will 