 Poster: A snowHead
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Resort: Snowworld Landgraaf 520m indoor snow slope
Country: Netherlands
Domain: Landgraaf, near Maastricht; 50'52'30"N 6'01'20"E - see it on Google Earth!
Author: slikedges
Date: weekend late August 2007
Our holiday: I went with http://www.gravitysnowsports.com/home.php but their site is currently undergoing a major overhaul and is effectively out of action for another week or so. They do race and piste performance coaching for children and adults and some advanced instructing as well. Both Glen and Phil are involved with the British Children’s Ski Team for which Phil is actually Head Coach.
Website: http://www.snowworld.com/snowworld.htm
Basics: We caught the Eurotunnel then met up with another car on the other side and travelled in convoy through France, Belgium and into Holland. Driving time on the Continent was about 3.5 hours out and about 3 hours back due to differences in the traffic. There’s an airport in Maastricht, and in Cologne; also Amsterdam and Brussels but haven’t really checked out flight options yet. The Belgians we met along the way weren’t very good drivers. 
Lift system: A high speed detachable six person chair, two drags (not turned on while we were there) and a travelator for the nursery slope. I’m told there are actually 7 items of uplift but they must have been buried in snowdrifts. 
The terrain: Like an elongated leaf with two 520m main slopes curving gently round at the edges and surrounding a smaller central slope with permanently sited freestyle kickers/ramps/rails and a mountain restaurant(!) halfway down. In addition just to the side at the bottom is a separate 100m long nursery slope. Each of the main slopes is 20-25m wide and of a consistent gradient all the way down, ideal for practising. Normally one or other of the main slopes is given over to race training or bumps or something. When we were there half of the slope on the left was set aside for various teams to take their turn at slalom gate training and the other half was mainly used by the teams for drills but was open to the public. The whole of the slope on the right was completely free of any restrictions, obstacles or anything else. There was no bumps slope while we were there. There was a little toboganning going on near the bottom of one of the slopes but not so’s you’d notice. Just as it should be. 
The snow: Excellent – better than MK at its best. Best indoor snow I’ve had. No ice, no slush, forgiving, flattering, confidence inspiring. Pisten Bully piste bashers. No excuses. 
The resort: It’s built on a hill that looks natural but I’m a little suspicious as Google Earth doesn’t show any other hills nearby. Ample parking area at the bottom, steps down to main entrance, into largish foyer with reception facing and shop on right. Between the two is corridor to eating area with viewing window to slope and a small hall for functions. On left is another large bar/restaurant area with viewing window and hard left are stairs down to changing area/equipment hire/large hall for functions. Changing/locker area is not as nice as MK but has a rubberized floor throughout which is nice. Usual dome rental equipment. Opening hours are 0900-2300. There’s another, almost as long, in Zoetermeer near Den Haag.
Food: Two big areas for feeding and watering, one with a bar area.
Accommodation: Best Western Grand Hotel, Heerlen, 4* about 10 minutes drive away. OK but not wonderful.
Costs: We had it as a package but lift ticket is €25 for all day skiing or €40 for 8 hours (you can clock in and out with an e-pass) incld food. Ski and boot hire is €10 extra. A package of 10 group lessons is €50 incld equipment. Pvt lessons are €37.5 per hour (€18.75 per hour in July and August!) exclusive of admission or equipment hire. I think all these are summer prices only.
Conclusion: Stupendous, awesome, an improving skier’s wet dream.  Shoot me down in flames but imho at a certain level of improvement it may actually be better than a mountain for many purposes.  The consistent gradient and consistent snow surface is ideal for piste performance or race training. I was skiing on GS skis which I’ve only ever been on fleetingly and have never gotten to grips with, but Landgraaf was another story. Under the excellent tutelage of my Gravity coach I was able to ski them half decently, if not exactly master them, in about half a day. At least part of this was due to slope and snow though the Gravity guys definitely know their onions and everyone in my group felt their skiing improved palpably over the weekend and most were planning to return with them soon. 
Pictures: On snowMedia Zone. Sort by filename to go through them logically.
Toljaso: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=169005#169005
It's gotta happen - Dawn Chorus Lunch and Slide, anybody? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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slikedges, more like a DC Bacchanalian weekend  Though I'd probably go on Friday night via Harwich on the overnight ferry. A good value trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I could sort a ferry out... might be an idea..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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slikedges, it was discussed yesterday, that this would probably be the next slide trip
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges, Bring it on I'd be up for a trip to Holland. I think CEM was well interested on going too. We were going to car share, 4 of us in the Espace with the top-box on, leave uber early, blast down there and be there for 10am, ski all day, then Calais for a wine load up and cruise back. Then sleep all next day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sounds great! It might be quicker and easier to fly for us. Might check out some routes later..
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Im pretty sure I remember reading sometime back that the Snoworld Landgraaf site ( they have two) is going to be extended
If you do not want to travel all the way to Landgraaf. A High Speed Cat to Hook van Holland and just a short drive you can be at Snowworld in Zoetermeer or De Uithof http://www.deuithof.nl/7-Sneeuwbaan.html in The Hague
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I must say I don't fancy a day trip. 6-7 hours there and 6-7 hours back is a bit much I think. I'd favour one overnight stay at least - maybe leave earlyish am, ski most of afternoon and evening, stay over, early onto slope and leave late afternoon to arrive back home midnightish. Worth checking the flight situation first though - if a short transfer cheap ticket is poss then would be equiv to the day trip mountain skiing thing.
stanton, they are indeed planning this, but it'll largely need to be done on stilts and I understand the purpose is not a big increase in length but in vertical height so that the vertical drop will be sufficient for the slope to be homologated as an official FIS race course. I suspect Zoetermeer is much busier than Landgraaf but if it takes a lot less time to get there it may indeed be preferable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, Indoor/Heaven? That's a bit like 'Military Inteligence' of 'Fresh Frozen'?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skier88, How did that happen? It's the theory of the Mobeus, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop.
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You know it makes sense.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, it's your special powers mate.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sounds fun. But not there and back in a single day.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good pics.
The Landgraaf and Bottrop slopes look impressive.
They illustrate just how rubbish all the UK slopes are. They are pathetically undersized and overpriced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque, could be a poss, but I just know it'd be one or other...unless it was that kind of party
Whitegold, thanks, just snaps, couldn't be bothered with tripods or postprocessing , both slopes are impressive and I'd kill little furry animals to have one within half a tank's drive but I much preferred the Landgraaf one, because of snow, uplift and simply lighting, agreed that something's gotta change here, I know we're that much further from real snowy hillocks but does that explain why we are so willing to be short-changed?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Whitegold, thanks, just snaps, couldn't be bothered with tripods or postprocessing , both slopes are impressive and I'd kill little furry animals to have one within half a tank's drive but I much preferred the Landgraaf one, because of snow, uplift and simply lighting, agreed that something's gotta change here, I know we're that much further from real snowy hillocks but does that explain why we are so willing to be short-changed? |
Totally agree that we're badly served in this country, both in terms of slope size and in terms of cost. It seems that even when a decently sized slope is proposed in some quarry or something the local NIMBYs come out in force and try to stop or delay things for as long as possible and government doesn't care a jot either.
Just one thing, I appreciate we're further away from "real snowy hillocks" on the Alps but not so from the Scottish ones. Whilst I appreciate that those "snowy hillocks" may be seen as a bit rough and ready for those more used to the rather more clement and predictable Alps there's no need for people to pretend they're not there, it's that kinda thing that (rightly IMHO) annoys the Scots 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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roga, depends on where one is in the UK of course, if within half a tank's drive of Scotland, I 'd certainly go, but it's actually more convenient and better value for me to go to the Alps from where I am
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| agreed that something's gotta change here, I know we're that much further from real snowy hillocks but does that explain why we are so willing to be short-changed? |
Slikedges -- Sadly, it is the British Disease. The UK is a low-quality, high-cost nation. It has some of the least sophisticated consumers and suppliers in the developed world.
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Whitegold, not sure where you live, but in the event that it's in the UK, have you thought of emigrating?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whitegold, I'm afraid I tend to agree with you, though some of the suppliers have to be making a killing somewhere...
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Looks great. I wonder why, when they're going to the obviously huge expense of building a new indoor slope at the moment (Chill FactorE) they're making it just as small as all the others in the UK? Why don't they build something more like this?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hurtle, He is right though isn't he?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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roga, I've skiied in Glenshee and IIRC the snow conditions were better in Landgraaf. This'd be particularly so in the summer.
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stoatsbrother, Too much of a sweeping generalisation for me and SO negative. 
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You know it makes sense.
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jonm, Chill FactorE is bigger than any other UK indoor slope as far as I can recall - apparently 180 metres long with a width at the bottom of 100 metres. Still small in comparison with these continental slopes but I guess it's a step in the right direction - I'm presuming the prices will be sky high though!
There are a couple of proposed developments that are more promising in terms of size though; there's SnOasis near Ipswich (which seems to have been in round after round of NIMBY induced enquiry for years) which is planned to be "80 metres wide and just under half a kilometre [500 metres] long". There's also Snowdonia Gateway in North Wales, which also seems to have had some planning problems and the slope was shortened as a result, which is now planned to be 500 metres long.
I think one of the issues with building a slope of any meaningful size is having a hill (or hole in the gound, i.e. quarry) of some description to build it on (in both of the above cases the proposals involve using quarries) - in the case of the new Manchester slope I get the impression there's no available hill where they've chosen (for commercial reasons) to site the slope so I presume they're limited in length as a result. Leaving aside planning and engineering issues I'd guess the company involved calculated the cost of building something longer would outweigh the probable/projected commercial return.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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The CAT is still runnning, takes 3hrs 40 mins.
From later this yr the High Speed Train link from Amsterdam to Brussels will be running so its just a change of train to London unless they run it all the way through im not 100% sure about that.
For that matter you can get a very cheap day trip with EasyJet or Transavia to Schiphol & then its only a short train journey.
The Top of the slope in Zoetermeer is built on Stilts , you can see it from along way !
http://images.google.nl/images?hl=nl&q=snowworld%20zoetermeer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
There is quite a new ski dome over in Germany between Hamburg & Bremen not that long a piste but a large area.
http://www.snow-dome.de
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, the high speed HSS Stena Discover stopped in January - shame, we used it to cycle over for camping trips.
stanton, it's now just the traditional super ferry that takes about 7 hours departing at 9.00 am or 23.30 for the overnight trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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From the South it isn't worth going to Hull for a 12 hr crosssing and then over to Masstritch or wherever.
Dover-Calais and 3 and half hrs the other side. I have a concession I can use on the ferry's. It would be long day but no more than a days golf in St Omer or somewhere.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Masque wrote: |
| slikedges, The overnight ferry is a party and a kip. Very civilised . . . or as much as you want it to be....... |
The ferry from Hull would be idea for those of us Oop North. I could be tempted.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Never knew the the HSS had stopped.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Chill Factor e is currently the longest in the UK - it's 180 m top to bottom, whereas longest Xscape is 180m of slope (ie main slope plus nursery slope). Chill Factor e is 100 m wide at the bottom, which I believe is currently the widest in the world.
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Looks like an amazing place. Would be great if that monster slope out in East Anglia got built - I think the NIMBYs are well and truly against it though!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Shame the Stena HSS stopped, cos that really screws up my travel plans now. Used to use it all the time when I lived In Leiden, and now I live in Germany, it means extra drive to Calais, and extra drive other side. Or it means bunking off work for a day for the overnight Harwich or Hull ferries.
Back on topic... the Landgraaf / Bottrop indoor slopes must only be a 3 hour drive for me, which is about same as Vosges - so maybe that's where I'll spend this winter.
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This looks like a great idea. Got 3 different quotes for the Hull - Rotterdam ferry and they were all the same.
Ferry: Car + 4 passenger = £59 per person
Hotel (1 night): in Landgraaf approx £30 per person per night
Petrol: £10 each at most (Approx 2 hour drive from Rotterdam to Landgraaf)
Lift pass:
| Quote: |
| you can frequently get a 15 hour pass for 30 euros |
Total £120 each
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FAQ
