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Skiing Insurance

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Chris Bish, TPS?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Returning to the E111 issue. This is in the process of being changed to a newer insurance card system. Many countries in the EU have gone over to it and the UK will follow in 2005/6. The main thing is that if you have an old E111 you will need to get this changed as it will be invalid after the end of 2004. The newer versions will be valid until the end of 2005.

Here's a link to the department of health's press release.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndStatistics/PressReleases/PressReleasesNotices/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4091259&chk=YKnlf9
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SteveG, thanks for that, I like I suspect many others had no idea that the E111 needed to be re done for next year, though I had heard about the insurance card thing that will be coming soon
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You can download the new E111 form from here .
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
thanks Jonpin - now I know where to get these for the first time snowHead
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I see there is a good discussion going here - I posted on the SCG site. Thought some of it might be relevant or even interesting

A Broken Leg Could be the Least of Your Worries on the Ski Slope

This was the headline on page B8 of the "Money" section of the Saturday October 16th Daily Telegraph article concerning SKI INSURANCE on holiday. We all know that insurance can be a mine field and the article by Peter Pallot just serves to confirm that nothing has changed. My attention was drawn to the following paragraph and I quote:-

" Theft: it is nearly impossible for holidaymakers who stop in mountain restaurants to keep an eye on their equipment, especially when they are sipping cocktails in a fogged-up bar as a blizzard rages outside. Thieves have removed van-loads of gear under just such circumstances. You then need two types of cover. The first refunds your loss. Beware policies with exclusions for equipment "left unattended". Such exclusions can be found in travel cover from Barclays, Boots, Esure, Primary, Sainsbury’s, SKI CLUB OF GB. The second cover you may need repays the cost of hiring equipment for the remainder of your holiday. Asda, Europ Assistance, and Travsure do not offere this in their policies" unquote.

Briefly:
Lift Closures: A number of companies will not pay unless all lifts are shut. Beware of companies that will not pay out if there is too much snow for ski-ing and the lifts are closed.

Off piste: As the article points the most dangerous exclusions lurk here in the small print. The article points out that off piste is covered by most companies if you are with a high mountain guide (not your average Ski Instructor I suspect). Remember you can go off piste without realising it, following a well used piste outside the given area, going off piste in a "white-out", You even need to be careful taking short-cuts through deep snow from one piste to another, so the article says. We all need make sure that we have some "all terrain cover" for these eventualities. It is the unexpected and rare occurrence that can play havoc with your health and bank balance.

Physiotherapy: What about if you suddenly find yourself being an involuntary contortionist on a black run, well, only a few companies will cover physiotherapy after this trauma ie Boots, Direct Travel, and the RAC. (What about the Ski Club). Let’s face it if you do yourself a mischief, physio is going to be needed every time ie dislocations etc.

Loss of Lift Pass: Quote" Among the insurers that exclude compensation are Churchill, Going Places, the Post O)ffice, Rapidinsure, Insure and Go." Unquote.

Racing: So OK you have had a week at school and it’s time for the end of week race. If you have an injury more than likely you will not be covered, even if there is official ski-school sanction. I don’t know want the answer is on this on, and the article mentions no solution either. Forget the ski race is my advice in this case.

Avalanches: The article talks about the Galtur tragedy of 1999 when 27 lost their lives. Yes for injury etc. you would have been covered but what about delays getting to the resort or delays being holed-up for a few extra nights in resort. The article states that quote "Thankfully such dramas are rare. But delays getting to resorts are not Boots, Columbus, Gosure, More Than, and Preferential exclude avalanche delay cover. Their policyholders get nothing if their resort is snowed in before they arrive or the road is blocked between airport and resort" unquote.

Clearly all of us skiers should revisit our ski insurance policies and read the small print to check out the cover offered and dump the companies that have the sort of exclusions mentioned in the Daily Telegraph article. We need decent sensible policies that cover all eventualities, that put to rest any such dreadful surprises should we need to claim from our policies.

Smile Safe ski-ing folks.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Has anyone considered (or used) Nationwide annual travel insurance which can cover up to 17 days wintersports?
Nationwide travel insurance

£59.98 1 person (europe only)
£96.98 per couple

Is this a good deal?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
skanky, TPS is Travellers Protection Service. My wife gets a good rate of quality cover from them via her civil service union.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I used Nationwide Travel Insurance last year for worldwide. Though I have not made a claim against it. I did notice that there was no cover for too much snow.

This year for worldwide annual insurance the price has gone up so I think I will be moving again, possibly to Insure and Go. I cannot say about the exclusion for lift passes, I have to say that I have never lost my pass (probably will next year now!!).
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Chris Bish, thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I found the site for TPS:http://www.tpstravelinsurance.com/

A couple of years ago and last year I used AIS Insurance and I won't be using them again.

The first time I had a dive watch which leaked and would have been covered - except that the damage showed up as rust a few months later That cost me £300.
I wasn't covered because I didn't claim within 30 days of returning to the UK - even though I got letters from the repair people etc saying that this was the cause of the damage. Essentially they used the 30 days as a way to get out of it - even though the damage wasn't apparent at 30 days.

The second time the Crystal Holidays coach was delayed due to very heavy traffic (I thnk there had been a crash). We missed our flight and the Crystal rep said we had to buy our own tickets home - "take it or leave it" (oh, and the airport was closing and if we didn't buy the tickets we'd be out on the street).
This cost me £270.

Because our vehicle wasn't directly involved in the crash the policy didn't cover us. Most of the rest of the group claimed on their policies (except 1 lucky chap whose credit card bounced!)
Obviously I'm taking Crystal to court ('cos despite getting on their bus at Val d'Isere they didn't get us home) but it's nice to know that the insurance is there when you need it NOT - so I wouldn't recommend AIS.

I read the Snowcard Ts&Cs and they seem more reasonable - eg in the 2nd incident described above I'd have needed a police report but I'd have been covered. TPS on the other hand only cover you if you are actually involved in the pile-up or whatever.

David
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Over the years I’ve used (I hesitate to say abused) my travel insurance and I can honestly say that every year I read the fine print and every year it becomes harder and harder to see a situation where you’re covered properly and can make a claim in the confidence that it will be honoured.
Insurance companies don’t make their profits from paying you to be clumsy. I’ve strong evidence that a big ‘local’ insurer (who’s busy outsourcing jobs to India) will spend more money on claims adjuster's fees than on payments to their insured’s claims.
E11 – don’t leave home without it
Carte Neige – If available don’t hesitate it’s the best backup system available.
USA – For God’s sake make sure your third party is 10M+ your med is 1M+ and that ANY prior injury history is posted (recorded delivery) to the insurance co. before you go – give them plenty of time to respond (14 days min.) if they don’t, then they’ve accepted your condition and will have to honour the policy.
The next thing is to photo and note serial nos. for everything you take and send the info to your broker or co. Again if they don’t respond (and so far none have) they’ve agreed to the insurance contract.
Today we need to become more proactive in our dealings with big business. . . And oddly this is turning back to an idea that’s been festering at the back of my mind for a long time. All our major institutions started as small groups of people collectively creating a solution to a need and sharing the risks and liabilities. Today we’ve all become lazy and reliant on everyone else to do that for us and as such have forgotten that the mantra of today’s globalised business is ‘screw em’.
Perhaps it’s time to re-evaluate our abilities to create and service our own market. We are becoming a market force simply by dint of our numbers, so the opportunity to encourage policy writers to meet our true needs is enhanced. But only if we view ourselves as having that power and authority.

I just wish I had the time to read every policy available from start to finish and 'then' make a chioce! Sad
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
My experience has been that there is no one perfect insurance policy that has everything you would want, cheap, covers off piste, both guided and unguided, covers heliskiing, covers other incidental winter activities, covers the full price of your equipment, with no loopholes, including hire-costs.

IMHO the cheaper the deal, the more get outs that there are, the most common being the exclusion of unguided off-piste, and heliskiing (wishful thinking every year, not quite got around to it yet, but useful to know that you could if you wanted to!). As with everything you pays yer money, you takes yer chances.

As for the cost of medical treatment, when I worked in a hospital that did heart lung transplants, we had a kuwaitii dignitary who had come for the insertion of an LVAD (a device to prolong survival in heart failure), his government had lodged a bond for £500000, which got used up in the first week of treatment. Never got the final figure, but by the time that he was discharged, he'd spent 4&1/2 weeks on the ITU, so go figure...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Masque wrote:

I just wish I had the time to read every policy available from start to finish and 'then' make a chioce! Sad

Well, it's taken several hours but I've just been through the pdfs for TPS, InsureAndGo and Snowcard Ts&Cs (and scanned the BMC and a few others).
My conclusion is that Snowcard offer by far the best deal for me as a normal '2 weeks holiday in Canada' type person. (BMC are pricey - but they look good for people who are rather more active than I am!)
Snowcard cover:
* £10m medical, £2m personal liability
* off piste is covered (so if you get bumped off the piste there are no worries - and since we're going for 2 weeks I may even get good enough to do a proper off-piste!)
* specifically cover gear (inc hired) left outside restaraunts on the slopes (no-one else mentions this - and frankly if it's going to get nicked, that's where it'll go from!)
* specifically cover travel delays due to crashes (though they require a police report - good! that stops fraudsters taking advantage)

I also noticed that Canadian hire shops offer 'accidental damage waiver' - not theft/loss.

I had a pretty shitty trip to Val this year 'cos one day I thought someone had nicked my skis (I'd left them outside my locker because Crystal provided *1* locker key for 5 people and I'd come home late, left the skis, gone up to the room for the key and they were gone when I got back). So, Gendarmerie reports and a new set from the shop - and a hefty excess - the works! However it turned out some plonker had picked them up and put them in his locker by mistake and I got them back2 days later - happily that saved me the excess but it made me realise what a PITA it can be. (PS did I mention that Crystal Holidays suck?)

So, based on several hours review I'd suggest you read the Snowcard Ts&Cs and consider them.

I'm now waiting for a response to a few queries but I'm positive I'll be using them this year!

David
PS Yes, last time I went abroad I just got the first policy I could find that covered me - maybe I'm overcompensating Wink

PPS Yes, the Val trip was the same one.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I've put in a few hours too on this subject since this thread began, with the view to getting a fairly definitive insurance solution to recommend to the snowHeaded masses.
There have been one or two companies who have been fairly generous with the commisions they offer for feeding them marks, erm customers but the only one whose policy stood up to much scrutiny was Snowcard. NOt the cheapest but definitely the most comprehensive so far. (don't know yet if they'll pay a commission though rolling eyes )
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
See I said they were good rolling eyes (or at least look good) what we need now are some positive outcomes for claims vs snowcard to prove it Cool
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A friend of mine went skiing 5 years ago with a large group of mates and they all took up the tour operators offer of insurance to cover their skiing holiday. Whilst skiing my friend was tripped on the last day by one of his friends for a lark(!!!). My friend fell badly and was seriously injured being unable to breathe having suffered severe spinal and neck injuries. His life was saved by a german nurse who was sking behind him, saw the fall and stopped to admin first aid, in fact his was given a tracheoctomy on the slope with his own broken sunglasses !!!!! Needless to say he was evac'd by helicopter to a local hospital and then flown home to receive further and continuing medical care. After two years of occupational therapy/ physio he is now only able to work 20hrs a week, he has 85 percent mobility now. I tell this story for two reasons. The first is a caution and reminder to us all to take our sport seriously but the other reason is that although his medical bills were paid when he tried to claim some kind of compensation for the continuing disablement he was told he would need to sue his (now ex) friend that tripped him. His mate was of course insured with the same insurers and was vigourously advised to deny all responsibility and blame or insurance cover would be withdrawn from him by the insurers !!! The claim level with lawyers fees has risen to in excess of 1 million pounds now and continues, the ex friend is presumably more and more worried he will lose insurance cover and continues to deny or accept blame. My friend has already lost one round of court hearings and fears the worst. I appreciate this situation could be repeated with individual insurers in a group of skiers in the event of an accident it does seem like a nasty conflict of interest between claimant and defendant both with lawyers paid for by the same insurance co. Or am I being cynical ?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Frosty, No, you're just seeing the practical and amoral application of semantics. Warm and fuzzy . . . not!
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D G Orf wrote:
what we need now are some positive outcomes for claims vs snowcard to prove it Cool

Indeed!

Thanks for pointing them out - I emailed them this afternoon and they phoned me back to give me some answers (all good - they'll cover snowmobiling; limits are per person on multi-person policies)
She also said that the hire ship damage waiver isn't needed.

David
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

hire ship damage waiver isn't needed

Think I'll hire one of these then
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NehNeh
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