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Seeking help in acquiring first pair of skis and boots

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi everyone.

I'm 29 and have only started skiing 4 years ago, almost always at a small local resort here in the US (East coast).
I've stuck to the bunny trails the first few years, but the past year finally ventured to the blues and the black diamonds. (Though from what I understand, that would be an intermediate slope on a "real" mountain).

For the upcoming year I've purchased a weekday season pass and I'd like to get some gear. The local stores aren't very reliable for advice and I'm hoping to buy one of the leftovers from last year online, and get it fitted at a local store.

Here I my details: I'm male, 5"7 (170cm), about 160lbs (70+kg).

I usually don't like to ski fast (still the "out of control fear") so I'd rather get shorter skis that are easier to maneuver. I can do sort of parallel turns, but they're not exactly good, so ease of turn is important. I've mostly rented the beginner skiis at the resort, and one time tried the intermediate skiis and initially found the turns challenging. Of course, I don't do air-time.

I will be doing all my skiing at groomed slopes, although with bad snowfall, we get our bumps and icy patches often enough. No off-piste planned for me (though my dream is to one day do off-piste in the alps or glacier skiing up north).

However, I've noticed that my main weakness is with bumpy terrain (not moguls, just natural bumps). That often makes me lose control and I will need to work on that.

So, any recommendations on what to buy?
I've been considering buying the Salomon XWings since they are common here and there's a lot of decent pricing. I saw a good price on the XW8, though that seems a little too advanced for me. The 5 seemed like beginners but is actually more expensive than the 6. Don't really know any other brands.

I am also planning to buy boots, though I'm not sure what kind to get. My biggest problem is of not maintaining the ski stance: especially when I hit a bump, I will lean back rather than forward in the boot. From what I understand, different boots make this problem worse or beter.

Any help and advice would be appreciated.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
uricmu, hello and Welcome to Snowheads snowHead

I am sure lots of advice will follow, but heres mine :
1.Buy boots, spend lots of time finding a fitter who knows their stuff and then more time getting them fitted.
2.Try lots of diferent skis by renting (Or visiting a snowheads UK ski test - worth the trip even across the pond!?)
3.Ski lots.
4.Smile snowHead
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
uricmu, Welcome, welcome...

Others will certainly contribute but here's my half-dime's worth.

1. In most cases, I'd suggest rather than buying kit, invest in some lessons with a good instructor. But it sounds as though you will ski frequently enough that having your own gear will be economically sensible. That said, your comments regarding ability and weaknesses will not be solved by throwing money at kit, only by improving your own technique. I'm sure you know that wink

2. I don't believe myself that most recreational skis are going to be "too advanced" for anyone so maybe the "8"s would be fine.

however, whenever I've skied on the east coast, admittedly not that often, the ski hills have had resident test centres. Go play on a few pairs, it'll be worth the rental. If you can notice the difference, then it'll be worth buying a pair you feel really happy on. If you can't notice, well that's good to know too. You may or may not learn to notice the difference.

3. Spend the bulk of your kit budget on boots. Take time choosing them. Find a good bootfitter. You may have to travel for this one. I think boots are massively more important than skis - for a whole host of reasons. But they won't stop you from leaning back in bumps nor will they maintain your stance for you.

Happy shopping!
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

For the upcoming year I've purchased a weekday season pass and I'd like to get some gear. The local stores aren't very reliable for advice and I'm hoping to buy one of the leftovers from last year online, and get it fitted at a local store.


uricmu, welcome to snowhead!

You might want to take a look at epicski.com. There's section on 'recommended boot fitters'. That SHOULD be your first stop: find a good boot fitter near you and get yourself a pair of boots that fits RIGHT (not just comfortable, both comfort and performance).

After boots, you can go after ski. Personally, I think any intermediate skis will do just fine. You can go down a bit on length if you want manuverability.

More importantly, the advices on lessons are good one. Since you'll be on the hills during weekdays, just sign up for group lessons. You'll be more than likely be the only group of ONE! Wink There may even be pack of 5 or 10 lessons you can get for cheap.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi everyone.
Thank you all for the quick replies and the warm welcomes.

I wanted to say that I agree with everyone's advice about the boots: my plan was to spend mostly on them,
because in my experience that's what most ski resorts seem to skimp on for the rentals. It's kind of crazy, if you think about it. They get all those fancy pretty skiis that look great, but those drab generic boots. In fact, I've been to a few ski resorts where the boots looked like cheap ass plastic. I've also always wondered on why they give out the same crappy boots to both beginners and advanced skiers.

I'll have to go to some of the local shops. The problem is that I am not from the area (I grew up with a country that has no snow) so they can tag me immediately as someone who does not belong around here and the service matches that.

Can I buy a set of skiis independently of the boots? There are a lot of good sales now in the US in advance of labour day and of the new models coming in.
I was hoping to buy boots from an earlier model, but I guess I should have done that last year.

As for lessons, I hope to take a few more. Learning has been very difficult for me, I have horrible coordination. I think skiing is one of those things where you have to start early. But I do hope to improve given enough attempts. Like I mentioned, what I really want is to one day be able to safely go off-piste. When I was a kid I visited the alps a lot and would love to one day do the valle-blanche (sp?) near Chamonix.

Right now I'm dealing with some medical problems, and one of my biggest fears is that I won't be able to go skiing this year, but one has got to hope Smile
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Quote:

The problem is that I am not from the area (I grew up with a country that has no snow) so they can tag me immediately as someone who does not belong around here and the service matches that.

I'm also obviously "not from the area" as well. But I don't think I get less service than others...

Get onto epicski.com to find a GOOD boot fitter near you. Once you find the boot, you can go after skis. Yes, you can get them seperately. You can even buy skis befoer you buy boots. Given the discounts going on right now, you might very well be in position to buy skis first while taking your time in finding a good boot fitter...
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
uricmu, where in PA are you, and where in PA do you ski?
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
uricmu, on thw ski buying, you'll get tremendous discount buying online and last or the prior year's models. All sorts of cheap stuff your side of the pond.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ok, so is a "more advanced" ski still "downward compatible" with a less experienced skiier who likes going slow?

The pair I'm thinking of are last year's Salomon XWing 8 with 711 bindings.
I'm just worried that they may be too advanced for me in the sense of speed and flex.
It's described in one place as :
"Medium width chassis for all terrain skiing. A great choice for progressing and advanced skiers for performance in all snow conditions."
And it's available for a decent price: about 260$ before local taxes and shipping.

The XWing 6 with the 610 bindings is available for 320$ before tax.

I don't see any good price on the salomon xwing 5 or 6 that I've looked at last year (at the time, the salomon website had a fitting advisor program. No longer...)
The XWing 5 is described in one place as:
"80% on piste/ 20% ungroomed
Medium chassis and forgiving flex for progressing skiers. You can take these skis everywhere, discovering all terrain with smooth speed control."
But someone told me that it's actually too much for beginners.

Also, what do I do about length? I'm 5"7, and I think that the beginner skiis I usually take are 150 or something. Can I buy a 155cm? (that's the smallest I see of the xwing Cool


As for the boots, I will go to the store around here... The list of fitters doesn't have anyone in Western PA. I live north of Pittsburgh and ski at "Seven Springs", a resort about 2 hours away. I also occasionally ski at Montage in the poconos.

As for poles, I'm going to buy just a generic set. But I have a silly question: when I see the price, is it for one or for two?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

But I have a silly question: when I see the price, is it for one or for two?
That'll be a price for a pair of poles. You don't need to spend more than the minimum, just get the right length. Hope you find something good, especially boots. To respond a bit to your earlier boot question, apart from the very good advice to find a good boot fitter - you need to put a priority on comfort, but without being too loose (if too loose, you obviously lose control). Any boots suitable for beginners should be fine - things only get difficult when you go into high end boots for racers etc, which will be much too stiff and tight for you. What you need are softer flexing boots so you can get your ankles flexed, as well as your knees and hips. That's what will make the difference with getting your weight forward - stiff boots will need too much aggression to get there! Just ask them for beginner/recreational style boots, and show them your feet, and they'll pick the make that is likely to be the right shape for your feet. When I have had ski lessons recently there's been lots of emphasis on getting that ankle flex right - you do see a lot of people with their lower legs at right angles to the skis, which will put you in the wrong position. If you can't flex forward in the boot, they're wrong for you (or you might need to work on stretching the lower end of your calves). But as others have said above, the boots will permit you to stand in the wrong position too - and picking aggressively forward leaning boots is not (as I understand it) at all the right answer, as that kind of boot requires higher level skills.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
uricmu, you should try Willi's, they have a shop at the base of 7Springs, near the Foggy Goggle and can make adjustments on the spot even if you buy from their in-town location. Tell them your boot budget up front without trying to steer them to specific models, and see what they come up with.

I don't know that I'd look at the XWing 8 in the very smallest sizes for you: under your weight they will not give you much grip when 7S gets icey. (Shorter mainstream skis are in general designed for lighter-weight skiers). I'd probably look at (last year's models for budget): Volkl AC1, Head XRC500 (800 if you're athletic), Fischer RX4 (RX6 if you're athletic),Elan Magfire 6 (8 if you're athletic), Dynastar Contact 8 (9 if you're athletic).
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Comprex, I'll probably try Willi's since there's a store relatively close here in the north hills. I've been there once to buy my helmet and have not been impressed with the service though, and that was during the season. The problem is also that they sold out of most of their stuff from last year and I don't want to go into the expenditure of a model from this year. I'll try dropping by before the labour day sale though.

I'm not sure I understood the comment about the XWing; are they known for having less grip? Compared to the others that you've mentioned? I'm slightly overweight, but not to a level where I would think that I need special kinds of skiis...


Pam, thanks for the tip about the boots. Getting the angle is my biggest problem. Of course, I'm not sure what flex the generic boots they use at the resort have: they give the same boots to all the renters and I can't recognize a brand. I've seen that some boots (like the XWing Preforma) have a "flex index" but it doesn't seem like that index is in any system of measurements that could help compare across brands. Do I want to go for a lower index for more flex, or is it actually the higher index that has more flex?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
uricmu, you'll need a more techie answer than I can give you. Stand in them, flex strongly forward at the ankles, and if you can't get much movement, look for something softer! You're better off being advised by someone knowledgeable in-store than puzzling things out from the technical specs. But don't forget, you just need a boot which will allow you to flex. You can't expect them to make you flex - that's your job and until you have a strong and confident technique that means you'll need soft boots (not that any ski boots feel v soft!). You will probably find that out of four or five similar kind of boots, suitable for your level, supposedly the same size, only one will feel right on your feet, anyway.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So I took Pam's advice about boots and tried to look at the clearance boots at an American chain called REI:

http://www.rei.com/ski/TOC/Ski+Boots?cm_re=toc*toc*ski_boots&vcat=REI_SSHP_SKI_TOC

I have to say that I find the boots issue completely confusing. They list boots as "recreational", "intermediate" and "advanced".
I tried to look at the specs though, and the "flex indices" seem strange.

For example, the Salomon performa series has three entires: 5, 6 and 8. The first two have an index of 65, the 8 has an index of 85.
All are listed for recreational. Last year, when I used Salomon's "ski picker" tool (not available anymore) it recommended the 6.

I figured that I'll look at intermediate and expert level boots to compare the index. The intermediates are in the 70-90 range, while the experts are in the 90-110.

So, how reliable are the flex indices?
I've seen really good prices on the Performa 5 and 8, for example, but the 5 seems really barebones, and based on the flex index, the 8 is too strong..

I'll be going tomorrow to my local store (Willi's) to try and get some advice and figure out my size, but I am quite perplexed. I didn't realize buying skiis was going to be that complicated. Ideally I would have waited till winter, but I'll be on a tight budget so I'd rather use the better sales now...
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
uricmu, I'm absolutely serious about this: do not walk into a boot shop with pre-conceived notions. Let them do what they're paid for.

The comment meant as follows : the size range in any given model is meant for lighter weight vs. heavier weight skiers, not for beginners vs. advanced skiers. I know that the rentals you're used to are only 150cm but there is absolutely nothing wrong with your learning on longer skis, so long as they meet two criteria: turn radius (sometimes printed right on the ski) less than 18meters, for you that would probably mean less than 16m, and a flex that allows you to start that turn at slower speeds (tell them 0-18mph). So you perceive that the trick is in finding the model first then the appropriate length; it may be that you wind up on something that is up to 165cm, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Let us know how it goes. Hope to see you at 7S next season.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So, some updates...

Turns out that nobody's really selling skis on a regular basis in the local stores for at least another month or two

Willi's, our major store, will be having a big sale at a big convention hall this weekend that I'll end up missing. A smaller local show, however, was doing some minor sale and had a guy who had tiime and some equipment to try and help. So first of all, turns out I was using the wrong size rentals for the past three years. I was using size 10 in rentals (I could fit my way through it), but according to the measure he took, I should use 9 like my street size (that's 27 boot size). I tried getting into them so it was fairly easy. It's amazing how "real boots" are much better and more accessible than the generic rentals. That probably explains some of the problems I've been having over the past few years.

Anyway, the problem was that he didn't have much in my size as leftovers from last year. He only had the Dalbello Aerro 70 which is slightly above my level, I think, but he argued that it might still be good, though he said I could wait for them to get the new season's Salomon Performa 6. It was initially tight on the legs, but then felt decent. Looks horrible (red and white), and the plastic felt a little cheap. It has some flex mode switch.

As for skis, again, he didn't have much, but he recommended the Elan Flow 6.2, at a size of 160cm.

Any comments on these ?
I've tried to find a decent ski review site, but there doesn't seem to be anything reliable.

Have a great holiday, everyone who's on this side of the pond.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
"The pair I'm thinking of are last year's Salomon XWing 8 with 711 bindings.
I'm just worried that they may be too advanced for me in the sense of speed and flex.
It's described in one place as :
"Medium width chassis for all terrain skiing. A great choice for progressing and advanced skiers for performance in all snow conditions."
And it's available for a decent price: about 260$ before local taxes and shipping. "

Salomon X-Wing 8's for $260?!

Are those demos? I can't find these for less than $450. Can you post a link please?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
uricmu wrote:
I don't see any good price on the salomon xwing 5 or 6 that I've looked at last year (at the time, the salomon website had a fitting advisor program. No longer...)
The XWing 5 is described in one place as:
"80% on piste/ 20% ungroomed
Medium chassis and forgiving flex for progressing skiers. You can take these skis everywhere, discovering all terrain with smooth speed control."
But someone told me that it's actually too much for beginners.

The ski school at Sunshine Village didn't think so. They gave us absolute beginners XW5s to learn on and the only problems I had were down to my boots being too big. Once the boots were sorted, everything was fine.
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