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Clive Woodward to be new President of BASI

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
News from BASI of their new President. A somewhat higher profile than the last President I guess, whose name I'm not aware of (if they had one at all). Will such a strong character, new to UK snowsport I think, have any implications for the organisation, or will this be a figurehead appointment only?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 23-08-07 16:00; edited 1 time in total
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If you've seen him ski I hope it's a figurehead only.
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sounds a bit daft to me, fair enough he won the world cup, but anyone who could walk and talk at the same time could've done that at that particular point in time with that particular team. His subsequent exploits have been less successful to say the least, the disasterous British & Irish Lions tour for example (where not only was it completely disasterous on the pitch, he came accross as a total dick in press conferences etc.!). Still when you've got a big rep you expect some cushy appointments
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Quote:

fair enough he won the world cup, but anyone who could walk and talk at the same time could've done that at that particular point in time with that particular team

What a load of cobblers. NZ soundly beat the Lions becoz they simply have better players than we do at the moment. Yes SCW got distracted from the real job and made mistakes with his PR on the Lions tour but that doesn't diminish what happened at the World Cup. SCW put a lot of systems in place which improved english rugby no end while he was in charge.

Whether he is the right man for the BASI job is another issue. His strength is management rather than coaching so his skiing ability is irrelevant.
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the systems put in place to to improve english rugby? hardly, they won the world cup then sank like a stone after that particular team broke up. It was their last chance to win it and fair play they did it, but it was that group of players and not any culmination of implemented systems by old clive.
As for the Lions tour, not sure player quality was significantly different relative to the opposition than in previous tours, but the run up and preparation was terrible (e.g. he brought far too many players on tour and an established team never surfaced).

That said he's managed to continue to ride the wave of the world cup success so fair play. not all that fussed that he's getting a BASI job, just think he's an overrated twit who knows very little about man-management on the sports-field - the world cup squad didnt need it, the last Lions team did, never got it and embarrassed themselves
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barry, With all due respect, it really only those with comparative world titles under their belt that can criticise another world cup winner. What have you won Puzzled
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gwaelod, i think that's the point mate, i am disputing his actual winning or contribution to the winning of the competition - it was the team of players he had at that time, and English rugby has been knackered since!!

as for my world title, well poo-poo-stirring of course Laughing wink Little Angel Toofy Grin
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I think I asked the question when his name first came up in connection with Chemmy Alcott a while back but have I missed Southampton FC topping the premiership due to his excellent transferrable skills?
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fatbob, Southampton won the other season, remember, just after the devil took up ice-skating... Wink
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Seems a bit strange to me giving it to someone who has no track record as far as I know in snowsports and snowsports coaching/instruction - I could understand it more if it was a post designed to shake up the way the sport is run at the competitive level but this seems an odd decision to be honest.

I dunno, am I missing something here?
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i went to something where Sir Clive was giving a talk on his management techniques. They were actually very interesting and sophisticated but in the context of team sports, I could only really see them working at an international level - they relied very much on being able to pick and drop people at will, whereas with a club football side it's more about making the most of what you have got. Anyway, I was pretty impressed and I went in there cynical
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Quote:

His strength is management rather than coaching so his skiing ability is irrelevant

There are plenty of people with greater management skill and experience of running a commercial operation than Clive Woodward, with a far lower profile who would be able able to do the job far better for a much lower fee. The real reason he gets these positions is, as barry correctly points out, because
Quote:

when you've got a big rep you expect some cushy appointments

If he put such good systems in place to improve English rugby no end why is it on it's @rse only 4 years after the World Cup win of 2003?
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He'd be good on snowHeads, especially the Rugby Union thread. Toofy Grin
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Spyderman, oooh I don't know. he has had a good vitual kicking in that thread
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barry, totally agree with you. If he had put in place such great systems, England should have won a grand slam since and be in with a good chance of winning the WC, they have massive resources and player base and should be doing better. Also his systems (and management) at Southampton were a complete failure. His management, decision making and selection of the players on the Lions tour to NZ was also wrong, irrespective of the results and comparative merits of the two teams.

Basically he was lucky to have a strong group of dedicated players whilst England coach and they won the WC, not him. I am sure Brian Ashton and even AR would have achieved similar results

Whether he can adapt what he has learned along the way to help British skiing is another matter, but I do not think his track record is particularly suited to a sport which is based upon individuals rather than a team.

rant over Very Happy
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Quote:

If he put such good systems in place to improve English rugby no end why is it on it's @rse only 4 years after the World Cup win of 2003?

Maybe becoz a lot of good players retired or passed their peak or got injured? Maybe becoz of the influx of foreign players into the premiership stifling the development of younger english players?
Maybe becoz he's not in charge any more? Or perhaps you think Andy Robinson did a good job..... Puzzled

All countries have their ups & downs, but to dismiss his input into the World Cup win as meaningless is just plain ignorant. I suppose Alf Ramsey was a lucky tosspot as well...? As for the criticism of his Southampton football connection, name one manager/coach who has been successful in both rugby and football. I can't think of any.
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the ice perv, exactly but for the reverse reasons, Players did retire but the whole basis of putting a system in place is to have a steady flow of replacement players to fill the positions when players retire. Sir Alf was not successful after the WC either, and no managers have done well in footy and rugby because none have been stupid enough to try to do a job they are not up to.

Still agree with Brian Very Happy
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the ice perv wrote:
Quote:

If he put such good systems in place to improve English rugby no end why is it on it's @rse only 4 years after the World Cup win of 2003?

Maybe becoz a lot of good players retired or passed their peak or got injured? Maybe becoz of the influx of foreign players into the premiership stifling the development of younger english players?


The whole point of putting a system in place is that it should improve matters going forward. If it doesn't cater for replacing players who are retiring, then it cannot be called a good system.
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does anyone know whether clive's system is still in place as he left it?
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Is he Stewart's brother?
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Thank you rayscoops and alex_heney, your comments illustrate the point precisely.
Quote:

As for the criticism of his Southampton football connection, name one manager/coach who has been successful in both rugby and football. I can't think of any.

So he's no different from anyone else then? What irritates me slightly about Clive Woodward is, as a result of the 2003 WC win which I accept he did have a role in bringing about, he now feels qualified to take on all these other jobs because of his perceived superb management skills. In actual fact none of his subsequent roles seem to have worked out very well at all. The WC win was due just as much to the fact that there were a group of players who had been playing together for some time, most of whom were at the peak of their careers physically and in terms of playing experience, and also the on field leadership of Martin Johnson. Perhaps BASI should approach him to be their next President. I doubt anyone would dare disgree with him Very Happy
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You're missing the whole point here.

The guy is an absolute tosser and the sooner he goes under a bus the better.

(Bitter and twisted over the Lions tour, me) Shocked Evil or Very Mad
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Cymru am Byth, Laughing Laughing Laughing wink
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Just because he didn't play permatan boy rolling eyes

Cymru am Byth? Iesu Mawr..
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BGA, don't get me started on Martin Johnson's leadership Laughing


Cymru am Byth, I wouldnt wish that on poor old Clive, if only for the reason that he's simply too easy a target for a good kicking wink
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ok, lets take this to the rugby union thread Very Happy
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nah, i reckon we have a permanent sticky Clive thread Smile
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sticky Clive

A friend of mine accidentally spilled a pint of Guinness over him in Verbier last season, thereby turning him into a sticky Clive. I have to say, much as I think he's overrated as a manager, he did take that quite well
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BGA, let's face it he must be used to that kind of thing especially as he MUST have been the target for fun by the internationals on tour (kangaroo courts etc.!). I remember a few club rugby tours years ago where a favoured past-time (among us forwards at least) was to dip management's ties into their own pints, usually while they were banging on about some 1950's tour to South Africa or some such shite! Happy Days Very Happy
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He skis Verbier rolling eyes .................. even bigger lady's front bottom than I thought wink
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He was a good centre, with his partnership in the old days with Carlton (the better of the two IMO). Most coaches would have had a chance at winning the WC with the squad of players he had.

He got the position with BASI on his because of his high profile name. If he skis/boards good for him, if there is a snob on this forum that will look down their nose at a person that may not ski as well as say Herman Maier or any other world cup skier, then they have not quite understood the reason for this forum. That is folk that enjoy sliding on the mountains and having fun.

Truth is that he is there to give BASI a higher profile, if they wanted other qualifications they would have gone to someone with more suitalbe experience. We have to be honest about our sport/recreation and where it is on the world stage.

Good luck to him and all at their HQ's, but I doubt he will make us into a world superpower in the world of snow sports!!!
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The Chairman of BASI is not normally (or didn't use to be) a day to day sort of management post. I see no reason why the Chairman should be a good skier (or even a BASI member). As Roy Hockley, says, presumably he's there to give BASI a higher profile, and he seems to be doing that already! I hope he can do that, but he is probably costing them a packet, and I think they could better spend the money doing something for the members - once you've passed your Grade 1 they do absolutely nothing for you. Sad
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easiski,

Do you mean President? I think the president is figurehead and the chairman more hands on? Think i know what you're getting at though! Little Angel
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I've been taught by three current or past Chairmen of BASI. I'm not certain if BASI has had a position of President before now, so perhaps it is being created for Woodward? Putting aside his abilities as a rugby coach (which I have no opinion on one way or t'other) I think having someone with a bit of political clout and a high profile will be a good thing for the association, assuming he is not being paid a disproportionate amount of money.
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beanie1, Well there's a job (can't remember the official name of it) that Bob Kinnaird did so well for so long which was the day to day running and management of BASI. that's separate from either chairman or president. In the old days the chairman used to be truly in charge, but I think it's been a long time since then. They have had a history of horrendous management mistakes ............
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easiski,

I think the day to day running is the Chief Exec (ie an employed position), the Chairman is a voluntary role elected by the members to chair the management board and the president is a co-opted figurehead postion (possible new role as no one seems to know who had it before)? Does that sound about right?!
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Clive's still a tosser Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Laughing
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barry wrote:
Clive's still a tosser Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Laughing


A tosser with a knighthood and a world winning medal under his belt.

Ok I have to be honest I'm Irish, I think he is a tosser and I can never, ever forgive him for the Lions tour. So much hope, so much hype, so little return Sad Sad Sad

However He still has a world cup winning medal and a knighthood and he brings publicity and notice to any organisation.

I did see him present at a conference and he talked about the team that won the world cup and he was honest about their abilites and they were at a moment in time. However any team that wins the world cup has to be having their moment in time. The only thing I thought when I saw him present was that he nevers seems to switch of. He lives by a certain mantra and that runs his life.
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aye, but what did he do to "win" the WC medal (which lead to his knighthood)??? Nothing, that team did it themselves and a trained monkey could've been the coach/manager (and would've made much more sense during press conferences!!!).
He's a tosser Madeye-Smiley
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