 Poster: A snowHead
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The locals round here say "Shamoneex", pronouncing the "x" on the end. So does my Belgian neighbour. What do people in Chamonix say? Just had a conversation with the local restaurant guy, who told me they had some floods "la bas", as in England, and his pronunciation prompted this question.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No floods and we pronounce it without the X, in the 18th century the spelling was Chamouny.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've always said Sham oH knee but have heard it referred to as cham oh nix 
Much more fun is the question, How do you pronounce Reims?
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boredsurfin, Reinse
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, rrrennnzz according to our local bar owner in Montbert! 
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reem?
I'd always guessed that chamonix was chamonee
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boredsurfin, Raauun unless your form chamonnee
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| pam w wrote: |
| they had some floods "la bas", as in England, |
At Sixt-Fer-à-Cheval and in the Saone et Loire but it is very hot and very sunny further south.
I suppose as the accepted 19th century "spelling" was Chamouni at least amongst writers like Coleridge and Shelley doing the Alps that would give a strong clue to pronounciation.
However the Savoyards have a lot of 'x' at the end of place and surnames bit of a habit of pronouncing the letter so I have heard French people saying the 'x' part. Although not as strongly as an English person would say it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My friend from Reims says it in a way that's pretty much impossible to write, very nasal, but Rrranse would be the nearest I could get. She pronounces the X on Chamonix as well, though I agree, it's not the norm but I have heard it occasionally...interesting that all your neighbours say it that way.
It's pronounced with the x on a tourist-type dvd that we got for grandma and now she thinks we all pronounce it wrong 
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The x is silent (for most valley locals), just like round our way (Savoie), there plenty of villages with a silent Z...ie La Jairraz, La Nouvaz pronounced la Jairre, la Nouve etc etc etc
No more (or less) confusing than Scottish or Welsh names i guess...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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or English, Fighledean Loughborough Bicester and that's without thinking of some of those Kentish and Cornish one's
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brian
brian
Guest
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Apparently the x and z endings found in the French alps and the Suisse Romande are hangovers from Franco-Provencal, still spoken in the Aosta valley and some back of beyond bits of the Savoie and the Romande. The language also gave us words like chalet, glacier and avalanche.
From Wikipedia:
"Other than people's last names, the Franco-Provençal legacy primarily survives in place names. Many are immediately recognizable, ending in -az, -oz (-otz), -uz, -ax, -ex, -ux, -oux, and -ieux (-ieu). These suffixes indicate the stress syllables based on a historical orthographic system considered obsolete by modern scholars. The last letter is not pronounced. For multi-syllabic names, “z” indicates stress on the second-to-last syllable, and “x” indicates stress on the last syllable"
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boredsurfin, my understanding of reims is exactly as per firebug, my dad pronounces it this way - I think it sounds seriously poncey (in english)
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You know it makes sense.
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I believe our prime minister, Bertie Ahern calls it CHAM-ON-ICKS. A very articulate man you must of heard him, if you haven't you must not be going to many of his official openings of supermarkets or off licences.
Sounds good dont you think CHAM-ON-ICKS, might go there one day 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nice bit of work there brian, that all makes sense...you learn a new thing every day (well, most days...)
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Poster: A snowHead
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brian, Nice one, i'm going to annoy plenty with my new found 'NIX'.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"I believe our prime minister, Bertie Ahern calls it CHAM-ON-ICKS. A very articulate man you must of heard him.
That's a good one "must of heard" Is that you Bertie?
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La Rosiere is in some areas pronounced '12 meters of powder'
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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brian
brian
Guest
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eng_ch, true, but there probably aren't any native Franco-Provencal speakers left around Geneva. It's like expecting Scots to be able to pronounce Gaelic place names.
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boredsurfin, NO c'est 12 metres de poudre ici.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, and firebug are probably aiming at the same thing for Reims (and are like my French friends say it).
I think the way the locals say the name is ultimately correct but if there is an established English pronunciation (or even different word as with Munich/Munchen) then it does sound a bit poncy to use the "correct" way. But when in the area use the correct way.
People in the French provinces tend to use much older pronunciations in general speech which sounds many final consonants. Similarly many place names still do sound them and others do not. In mediaeval French every letter was sounded. (I wouldn't be surprised if many smaller place names in France are pronounced differently by people from different areas).
Some other very ancient forms survive in place names. For example Roy anf Foy were the old spelling for Roi (King) anf Foi (faith). Thus the ski area St Foy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks all. I've always wondered about those places round Geneva. We live and learn. I now know I would have to learn them all individually as there is no rule. I've been driving home over the last couple of days. I now know how to pronounce Laon and Saone (the first to rhyme with "mon", the second to rhyme with the "Rhone", into which it flows at Lyon). It looks like Chamonix is fine either with, or without, the final "x". I've always pronounced Reims to rhyme with Prince (Rainier, not the artist formerly known as) but maybe it's more complicated than that. Had plenty of time to think about it yesterday, sat in Reims in a very long traffic jam which was so bad they even had English traffic announcements about it. Incidentally, is "La Thuile" pronounced in an entirely French way, even by the Italians?
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I don't know, but the Italians pronounce the Matterhorn "Cervino"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I saw that Menzies Campbell speaking to Earl Cholmondley in Belvoir castle the other day..... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hey pam w, we drove quite close to Beaufortain on Sunday, (on our way to check out the european woodcutting championships, oh my) is that where your place is? I'd like to explore more around there, some beautiful villages...anywhere you'd particularly recommend?
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brian
brian
Guest
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| pam w wrote: |
| Incidentally, is "La Thuile" pronounced in an entirely French way, even by the Italians? |
Probably as in French. French is an officially recognised language in the Valle d'Aosta, but I think most of the population actually speak Franco-Provencal or Italian. F-P is one of these "is it a language or a dialect?" type of things like Scots or Flemish.
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You know it makes sense.
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| brian wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Incidentally, is "La Thuile" pronounced in an entirely French way, even by the Italians? |
Probably as in French. French is an officially recognised language in the Valle d'Aosta, but I think most of the population actually speak Franco-Provencal or Italian. F-P is one of these "is it a language or a dialect?" type of things like Scots or Flemish. |
Most French would call it sham-oh-knee but just to confuse matters chamoniards( natives from chamonix) call it sham-oh-nicks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowball wrote: |
| Thus the ski area St Foy. |
That's Sainte Foy - being a girl not a boy.
la foi - the faith
le foie - the liver
I only point this out because the French, being a logical bunch about their language, may think you are writing about some sacred duck liver pate. 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 24-07-07 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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brian
brian
Guest
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, so you could end up with a Vhairi Hhairi Mhairi ? Or rather a Vhairi Hhairi Vhairi Mhairi, or something...?
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davidof, reminds me of that joke for old boozers -"Is life worth living? That all depends on the liver."
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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firebug, Beaufort itself is nice, a proper valley town. At least, it's nice in summer; it's cold and dark in mid winter, because the valley is so deep. Of the villages, Boudin is a"picture book" mountain/chalet village. Hauteluce is a proper old valley village, with some new building and activity to keep it alive. The whole of the Hauteluce Valley is beautiful, with some fantastic old working wooden farmhouses, not all touristified. The Valley ends at the Col de Joly - a dead end, though you can drive up to the Col in summer. In winter you go up from Belleville by lift; the Col is the top of the Les Contamines skiing area. The Areches-Beaufort ski area is interesting (especially the section which consists entirely of red runs!) and good for a day out. Very different "feel" from the topography/landscape. Good walking, too, and the villages are attractive in summer. The whole of the Beaufortain is beautiful, really, and not at all hard to pronounce..... highly recommended gruyere cheese (Beaufort) and lots of good domestic architecture throughout, working farms, plenty of cows, sheep, goats. It has a life besides skiing. The landscape is more pastoral, and gentle, than many mountain areas; masses of broad leaved trees, apple orchards, cows and flowers, with the mountains, including of course Mont Blanc, in the background. We discovered it entirely by accident, but are glad we did!
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oooh, sounds lovely! Will have to try and take a trip up there. I'd like to try it in winter too - a friend here is originally from Areche and keeps promising to take us out there for a day... 
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FAQ
Not that I'm a local - wonder if David Murdoch could shed any more light...?
) ... but for example most Scots pronounce the girl's name Mhairi with an 'm' at the start whereas it should properly be a 'v' sound in Gaelic.