 Poster: A snowHead
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A 23 year old snowBoarder from Arizon who collided with a girl and subsequently found himself in a fist fight with her father has received a 30 day suspended sentence and ~$300 fine. Christopher Dunsmore, who was snowBoarding on Vail Mountain said, "I hit the brakes as hard as I could. From the bottom of my heart, I truly was sorry. I felt awful, and anyone in that situation would feel the same way." Eight year old Zoya Petrovska suffered a cut lip and bruised hip. However her father, upon smelling alcohol on Dunsmore's breath, started punching him in the face....
Dunsmore admitted to have consumed 5 drinks during the day, before the incident but denied being drunk.
Both men were charged, 56 yr old Petrovska for misdemeanor assault, Dunsmore for skiing while intoxicated and leaving the scene of an accident. Later, he was also cited misdemeanor assault.
Charges against Petrovska were dropped after Dunslane requested that they were.
Prosecutors dropped the original charges against Dunslane in exchange for the guilty plea to a charge of harrasment.
This topic cropped up on snowHeads at the time here.
So, loony pissed up out-of-control snowboarder wipes out innocent child?
Or, over-protective father gives in to snowRage in response to an unfortunate accident?
Make your own mind up - here's a video interview with the participants at the time http://www.9news.com/video/player.aspx?aid=13877&bw=
http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=73815
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4779643
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We cannot be certain how much he was under the influence as you dont know the stregnth of what he consumed or if it was with food and over how long a period. None of the links I managed to open stated if he submited to any testing of his level of inibriation
He comes across as being remorsefull from the start where as the father did not. In one of the related stories on the links the father says, "I smelt alchohol so I had to hit him" erm no you didnt have to hit him.
If I was being punched I think I would have left the scene as well. We dont know if the girl crossed his path without looking up the hill, which is the piece of code I see not followed the most. Giving way to the slower rider is correct but so is looking up hill before you set off.
Think the guy was harshly delt with on the whole.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nice punchline!
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Hard to call - accidents do happen that's why they are called accidents. Courts will obviously side with injured parties though it barely sounds like the kid was hurt seriously and if the guy was hitting the anchors it deosn't sound like he was being out and out reckless. Take alcohol out of the equation - would you expect every driver who hits another on the road to be put on probation & fines?
A further question for the parents. How many parents let their kids step into the road without a thorough grounding in the green cross code? Now how many parents drum into kids the absolute necessity to always look uphill before setting off, entering or crossing another piste? A skier or boarder moving at 30mph is not that unusual.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The dude, by his own admission, had been drinking and boarding. This is dangerous. The kid's pop was right to have zero tolerance.
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No he wasn't. There was no justification for his violence.
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Fair play to Dunstane for dropping charges against the father. If you injure a man's child; screw his wife; or spit in his beer; you must expect a reaction. If, after everyone has calmed down, it is deemed to be over-reaction so be it, but you must expect something will happen.
In the heat of the moment, if some drunk ran my son down, I couldn't promise not to go mental. Even if my son was partly at fault.
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the ice perv, I agree if some drunk ran one of my kids down I would be mad as hell. The problem I see with this is how drunk was he. The father reacted because he smelt alchohol but you could smell it after one glass. Did he have 3 pints and a couple of chasers in half an hour or did he have 3 halves and a couple of chassers over a long lunch.
The boarder was remorseful from the start but the father showed nothing. I could accept he threw a punch and then said it was in the heat of the moment, I think however he would like another shot at the guy.
I also have a problem with the plea bargin side of this as well. If it was as serious as it was being reported why was the charge reduced because he asked for the father not to be charged. I think the poor guy got unlucky and is being used as an example to someone elses agenda.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Violence is not the answer here. Not saying I wouldn't've done it too but neither should it be condoned as a gut response.
Of course if it's ok to drink and drive, it must surely be ok to drink and ski/board. And if isn't...
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Here are the safety rules:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/guides/page.asp?intGuideID=13&intPageID=120
Perhaps, like with Isaac Asimov's Laws of Robotics, the earlier rules should take precedence over the later ones. Imagine if a person flies over a blind rise and takes out another person who has stopped, just out of view. The first person is at fault, through having broken rules 1 and 2, whereas the second person has broken rule 6. (This especially makes sense if you remember that the second person may have stopped because of a fall.)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Pete Horn wrote: |
| There was no justification for his violence. |
I would think having your child hurt is.
Their is only one person I know off who, When it came to the push and shove did not respond in kind.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| ...respond in kind. |
That would be accidentally skiing into him then, not deliberately hitting him in the face.
There is a lot in the news at the moment about alcohol increasing the level of violence. Did anyone breath test the father?
I maintain that violence is an inappropriate response to an accident.
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I agree, violence is not justified. If you can't control your anger then don't go skiing, and don't take your children with you.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, It's as simple as that, is it? 
All these level headed people on the slopes never react to a situation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, If someone did that to my child - and smelt of alcohol - I would find it very very difficult not to hit them. Usual parental thing to say - but wait till you have them, and see how you feel.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thank God I don't have children. I might have turned into a violent thug.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
If you can't control your anger then don't go skiing, and don't take your children with you.
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agreed. Or best of all, don't have kids in the first place. Parents who can't control their anger are as likely to belt their kids as to smash someone in the face because they smell alcohol. Or beat up a paediatrician. No excuse.
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pam w, With the greatest respect........... absolute dangly bits.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, Well said.
FtS, At least you would have done the correct thing (though maybe unnecessary to sit on him if he was making no attempt to leave).
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Sorry guys, I don't agree. Just because you have feelings of protectiveness towards your children it doesn't justify violence towards others. If you can't handle the fact that your children may get hit accidentally, then you shouldn't have them out on the slopes.
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Frosty the Snowman, don't you think that if someone really cannot "control their anger" then by definition they are a potential danger to everyone around them? People who are violent, and see smacking people as the answer to a problem, tend to be indiscriminately violent - and have often been the victims of violence themselves, when they were young and defenceless. Their instinct is to lash out - like the people who shot the guy who tried to stop them smoking outside a nightclub. Of course we would all, as parents, instantly want to retaliate against anyone who hurt our children, but most people would also recognise the need to control that instinct.
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pam w, Kramer, The urge to protect ones children is something did not understand until 1st born came along. The fact this case involves skiing is irrelevant. In the case mentioned here boarder was very apologetic and still got a thump, but had he shown no remorse or concern and been drunk and reckless then I could see me losing my temper. The same would go for a drunk reckless driver if they hurt my loved ones.
To equate the above with assualting children or medical staff is just plain silly IMHO
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If you can't handle the fact that your children may get hit accidentally, then you shouldn't have them out on the slopes.
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I have no problem with accidental collisions but do try and choose quiet times/palces on the slopes, but then we are not talking accidental collisions here are we?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The boarder did seem truly remorseful and while it could have been much worse, it wasn't. The child was not badly hurt, what was her father going to do if she had been badly injured? Kill the guy? Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend the boarder but I don't think the father was right either.
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Hitting people in anger when not in defence of self/family/friends/property may sometimes happen. This doesn't make it right in the eyes of the law or in any other eyes either.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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slikedges, It is a fine line. Is a drunk that skis or snowboards recklessly and injures someone quilty of assault?
(not saying that the lad in this case was, just trying to develop the discussion)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman,
| slikedges wrote: |
| Of course if it's ok to drink and drive, it must surely be ok to drink and ski/board. And if isn't... |
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| but then we are not talking accidental collisions here are we? |
I doubt it was intentional.
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman, I don't think the drunk comes in to it. Sober or drunk or somewhere in between, do it recklessly and you're effectively guilty of assault.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Maybe we need to have people breathlised after accidents like drivers suspected of being under the influence. Don't think I'd be against the idea. As I've said before I don't think the boarder was right and I believe that if you injure someone recklessly then you should be guilty of assault. There would have to be clearly defined alcohol limits.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Swirly, I was not referring to the case at the top of the page (despite tha fact it reads that way  )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
slikedges, It is a fine line. Is a drunk that skis or snowboards recklessly and injures someone quilty of assault?
(not saying that the lad in this case was, just trying to develop the discussion) |
Unless I have missed something, we don't even know that the guy was drunk; he may have had a beer at lunchtime and the father smelled that on him, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was "drunk". Equally, we don't know if he was even at fault; just because you hit someone, doesn't automatically mean that it is entirely your fault if they did something completely unpredictable, or even that it could have been an accident with no negligence. I sometimes wonder whether, in our increasingly blame conscious culture, the word accident will eventually disappear.
Without knowing a little more it is difficult to judge the boarder, but I feel that the father totally over-reacted. If the guy was blatently negligent, perhaps you could understand a snap reaction, but I'm not sure that this is the case here, and, either way, understandable doesn't mean reasonable or justifiable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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johnnyboy, I agree that the father comes accross badly and his actions were an over reaction.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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He claimed to have "consumed five drinks but was not drunk" which I think is where the problem lies. That much alcohol would have different effects on different people. I suppose it would depend on body weght and things like that. Don't know much about it but if I'd had five drinks I would be a wee bit tipsy even if it was just lager. Of course the father was wrong, you can't go around thumping people, there are laws against that kind of thing!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, fair enough. In that case I agree with your point that one would probably lose their temper although I don't think violence is the correct response.
johnnyboy, agreed.
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From the final link in the first post...
| Quote: |
In Colorado, where a record number of skier visits, about 13 million, took place last ski season, the number of serious injuries and collisions was typical, said Molly Cuffe, spokeswoman for Colorado Ski Country USA. On average, about 26,000 serious injuries occur on the slopes, and about 5 percent, or 1,500, involve collisions, according to attorney Jim Chalat.
"That's still too much," Chalat said. "The No.1 safety tip is wear a helmet. And if you're a parent, think about skiing behind your child. ... If there is a collision, people need to remain calm. They need to call the ski patrol. They need to remain at the scene." |
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Wear The Fox Hat, so 0.01% of skiers visiting Colorado have a serious injury as a result of a collision. It would be interesting to see how that compares to injury from more mundane activities.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
To equate the above with assualting children or medical staff is just plain silly IMHO
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Sorry, I should perhaps have explained the reference to beating up paediatricians. This referred to the appalling incident when a self righteous mob of thugs who didn't know the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician, assaulted one of the latter.
It sounds as though the snowboarder was out of control, and couldn't stop fast enough. Not good, not good at all, but hardly warranting summary justice on the slope. Two wrongs don't make a right. The snowboarder had an accident (and which of us has never been guilty of skiing or boarding a little bit too fast for our ability in some circumstances?) for which he was truly sorry. The father's actions were plain wrong, it was either a deliberately violent act (in which case the assault case should have been pursued) or he is incapable of controlling his temper, in which case I still maintain that the next person on the receiving end of his fist could well be one of his children. He'd be a very peculiar father if he never got angry with his child, but we have to hope that most angry fathers manage to avoid smacking their kids in the face. Some don't, of course, and violent fathers kill a lot more kids than loopy snowboarders do.
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pam w, I also wonder what kind of message this gave to his daughter - the fact that he was let off.
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