 Poster: A snowHead
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Advice please for Xmas/New Year ski trip - we are still newish - have done Soll (Austria) and Vemdalen (Sweden) and loved both - for different reasons now looking to book next Winter - fancy the US/Canada for snowsure resorts and something completely different again. So can anyone recommend a resort with lots of nice reds and few blacks but nothing extensive or challenging needed - don't want to pay for a all encompassing lift pass when we won't go far.
Prefer smaller traditional resort I guess but not too expensive and no nightlife or non ski activites needed - kids are 12 and 14 and doing easy blacks - parents less confident! Thank you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whitefish Mountain resort (formerly Big Mountain), Montana
www.bigmtn.com
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sally s wrote: |
Advice please for Xmas/New Year ski trip - we are still newish - have done Soll (Austria) and Vemdalen (Sweden) and loved both - for different reasons now looking to book next Winter - fancy the US/Canada for snowsure resorts and something completely different again. So can anyone recommend a resort with lots of nice reds and few blacks but nothing extensive or challenging needed - don't want to pay for a all encompassing lift pass when we won't go far.
Prefer smaller traditional resort I guess but not too expensive and no nightlife or non ski activites needed - kids are 12 and 14 and doing easy blacks - parents less confident! Thank you. |
BC interior resorts like Big White, Sun Peaks, Panarama, Silver Star. All have good snow records, smallish but big enough to cruise and explore for a week. all have nice base villages and on-snow accommodation. Some reports and pics on all these in my blog archive from this winter - gortonator.spaces.live.com
Sun Valley, Idaho is a great cruising mountain with a really fun cowboy town at the base. Big Mountain and Big Sky in Montana are top all round places, as is Grand Targhee in Wyoming - an intermediate powder skiing paradise, and definitely small and quiet  . And you could combine Targhee with a few days at Jackson to scare the kids!
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| sally s wrote: |
| lots of nice reds and few blacks but nothing extensive or challenging |
Jackson Hole probably would be rather on the scary side!
| sally s wrote: |
| Prefer smaller traditional resort |
By "traditional", if you mean with a nice little "real town", that existed there before the ski area was built, Breckenridge, Steamboat, Crested Butte or Park City would be good options. Also Whitefish or Sun Valley (=Ketchum).
Big Sky and Grand Targhee have no town to speak of in the traditional sense; Panorama is purpose-built. I have never been to Big White, Sun Peaks or Silver Star, but I think they're purpose-built as well.
No-one has mentioned Fernie yet, which is a nice traditional little town - but the skiing there is rather on the steepish side.
Banff is also a nice traditional town, but you have a bit of a bus journey to the slopes each day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Keep in mind that X-Mas/New Year can be somewhat early in terms of snow depths. Can be great. Tony Crocker has a web site that gives very good information on historical snow records. Here it is:
http://members.aol.com/crockeraf/
Steamboat has a record of good early season snow, there's a real town, and lots of intermediate terrain. I think it would suit your needs pretty well. And altitude sickness is less likely than at many Colorado resorts because the base elevation is lower. Summit County Colarado would be another reasonable choice. Breckenridge would probably be the best option in terms of the town. Breck has an old Western main street, lots of dining and off-slope options, and lots of curising terrain. Additionally, your pass could be used at Keystone and I know Keystone makes quite a bit of early season snow. Keep in mind that the base elevation at Breck is about 9600 feet (over 2900m). A little later in the Year I'd say take a close look at Park City Utah. But I think the early season snow record in Park City is a bit sketchy.
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Bit reluctant to recommend specific resorts and the meaning of "traditional" is very open to interpretation in N America where is often means fake disney-style.
I'd steer clear of the likes of Whistler, Vail, Breckenridge, Aspen, Mammoth and other big "destination" resorts for certain at that time of year as you will pay through the nose and have holiday crowds to deal with. Traditional tends to mean town separate from ski area in many places too.
I think the okanagan resorts mentioned above probably tick most of your boxes apart from the fact that they are "fake". Smaller Colorado resorts too.
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| fatbob wrote: |
Bit reluctant to recommend specific resorts and the meaning of "traditional" is very open to interpretation in N America where is often means fake disney-style.
I'd steer clear of the likes of Whistler, Vail, Breckenridge, Aspen, Mammoth and other big "destination" resorts for certain at that time of year as you will pay through the nose and have holiday crowds to deal with. Traditional tends to mean town separate from ski area in many places too.
I think the okanagan resorts mentioned above probably tick most of your boxes apart from the fact that they are "fake". Smaller Colorado resorts too. |
I'd echo fatbob here - Xmas/NY at the well-known 'international' resorts is crowded and expensive.
Check out owners direct for BC - http://www.ownerdirect.com/map/ca/bc/map-bc.htm. I got an amazing deal for a nice 4 bedroom apartment last NY at Big White - C$230 per night - for ski-in/out and 2 minute walk to village. BW has added a lot of new accommodation recently so prices are good. Only go there if you don't mind Aussies tho 
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Since most US/Canadian resorts are not on permenant glaciers, "snow sure" is a relative term.
Also, majority of N. American resorts are in the middle of nowhere. One might be able to count in one hand of resorts that are "traditional resort" (which we inteprete as "traditional village" at the base?)
There are, on the other hand, lesser known resorts that are not necessarily "traditional", though would likely not be as crowded nor as expensive.
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| abc wrote: |
Since most US/Canadian resorts are not on permenant glaciers, "snow sure" is a relative term.
Also, majority of N. American resorts are in the middle of nowhere. One might be able to count in one hand of resorts that are "traditional resort" (which we inteprete as "traditional village" at the base?)
There are, on the other hand, lesser known resorts that are not necessarily "traditional", though would likely not be as crowded nor as expensive. |
It's the exception, rather than the rule, when conditions are not good by Xmas across most of the western resorts - and that means 100% open with extensive off-trail. In the Pacific Northwest we're usually skiing pow and great conditions from mid/late November onwards. Who needs glaciers 
And its easy to get to many of the 'middle of nowhere places'. Fly to Kelowna from Calgary/Vanc for Okanagan, Bozeman for Big Sky and Jackson for Targhee from SLC, and local airports near Big Mtn and Sun Valley. California resorts are also very accessible.
Someone else mentioned Utah - SLC resorts are essentially suburbs of SLC. Might be worth consider Alta/Snowbird (no boarding at Alta), excellent snow and terrain for all standards, and certainly no wild nightlife to distract! Also much cheaper than most Colorado places.
And a couple of suggestion for lesser known, definitely middle of nowhere places that might suit- Mt Bachelor, Oregon and Schweitzer, Brundage and Tamarack in Idaho. Fine ski hills if you 're adventurous enough to get there ...
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gortonator, I think you're missing the point. The original poster ask for "traditional resorts"!
I wouldn't say Alta is anything near "a lot of nice reds and few blacks".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| abc wrote: |
gortonator, I think you're missing the point. The original poster ask for "traditional resorts"!
I wouldn't say Alta is anything near "a lot of nice reds and few blacks". |
We'll have to disagree about Alta/Snowbird, I'm afraid (except for the fact that there are no reds in North America!). But I have intermediate skiing friends in SLC who have season passes there ...
But as someone else has already said, there are very few 'traditional' villages with lifts radiating from the towns in North America. Aspen, Telluride, Park City, Sun Valley - a few others no doubt - none of those cheap and only Sun Valley uncrowded at Xmas. Hence I was focusing on the other 'attributes' - snow, terrain, small-ish, costs, crowds - that the original poster specified.
And some of the small 'fake' ones are remarkably pleasant ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Alta has some very good intermediate terrain but it's limited in extent. Alta grooms at least one run off every lift. But you can probably ski all the groomed terrain at Alta before lunch. Alta is a great place for an adventurous intermediate to dabble with off piste skiing since you can venture into bumps, trees, and powder without getting too far from the pisted terrain. And the base village is basically just a few lodges with dining rooms. Don't get me wrong, Alta is my favorite place to ski. But I'm not sure it's what these folks are looking for. And staying in SLC is staying in an American suburb, there's little charming about it. None of the places will be traditional villages in the sense of Austrian villages. But places like Aspen, Breck, Steamboat, Park City, Telluride, and Sun Valley all have lively villages that are not completely purpose built, lots of dining options, and a fair amount of other off slope activities. Aspen, Telluride, and Sun Valley can be wicked expensive. And while most Western resorts have good snow by X-Mas, it's not a given. Colorado had good early season snow last year but the California resorts were hurting early in the year. And if I recall correctly the Northern Rockies were slow to get started last year as well. All of the Utah resorts had a very down snow year. So looking at snow records is not a bad thing. Of course, there are not gaurantees when it comes to snow.
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| RISkier wrote: |
| Alta has some very good intermediate terrain but it's limited in extent. Alta grooms at least one run off every lift. But you can probably ski all the groomed terrain at Alta before lunch. Alta is a great place for an adventurous intermediate to dabble with off piste skiing since you can venture into bumps, trees, and powder without getting too far from the pisted terrain. And the base village is basically just a few lodges with dining rooms. Don't get me wrong, Alta is my favorite place to ski. But I'm not sure it's what these folks are looking for. And staying in SLC is staying in an American suburb, there's little charming about it. |
agreed - altho Alta is linked to Snowbird, and combined this gives extensive intermediate terrain. They certainly ain't exactly charming tho and combined lift ticket isn't cheap like Alta's. I dunno if these folks board?
variable snow is a fact of life, but with snowmaking its rare when Xmas doesn't have a extensive skiable trails, esp in BC where it's rarely warm. Steeper stuff and off-trail might be sketchier, as happened in northern rockies and Utah last year, but groomers were still good cruising. Like fatbob, I'd recommend seriously looking at the Okanagan hills - they would seem to fit most specified requirements. And Banff if you don't mind riding the bus ...
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You know it makes sense.
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sally s, I'd recommend Big White in Canada. Great for intermediates with easier or more challenging slopes if you want it. Accommodation is really ski-in/out and although the resort is purpose built, it's not like the fake Tyrolean style of Sun Peaks. UKtrailmonster went there over Christmas/New Year last year and there was plenty of skiing to be had.
We've stayed there twice now & will probably be going back again next year. I'd recommend the White Crystal Inn for its very central location and skiing to/from the back door. Oh, and there's night skiing every evening on a pretty long run.
The runway at Kelowna is meant to be extended this year to accommodate transatlantic flights, otherwise it's an internal short hop from Vancouver, Edmonton or Calgary. Big White is about 45 mins from Kelowna airport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thank you all - this has helped enormously although I hadnt expected so many options I can at least print it all out and start looking online.
Had assumed these resorts were all snowsure so may wait until October for the winter pattern to emerge. By traditional I guess I meant not the purpose built high rise affairs and no we don't board (tried it - but prefer hurtling downhill eyes front). We also want easy skiing - ski in ski out - no bus rides - and night skiing a bonus - kids particularly wowed by that but all this has opened my eyes to so many options - thanks guys - this site is priceless for such spot on advice.
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Poster: A snowHead
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sally s, I should add that Big White normally opens in November so there is a good chance of decent snow come Christmas/New Year. This is their official website http://www.bigwhite.com/ - if you click on 'Mtn Tour' on the right goggle lens you can ski down some of the pistes 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd echo Park City as a place which is a "real" town (insofar as any American resort town is "real") with some atmosphere. It also has access to lots of the type of terrain you're interested in at its own mountain, and the adjacent Deer Valley and the Canyons (easily accessible on the free shuttle bus). There's a good range of accomodation available, and access is really convenient by a relatively short transfer from SLC airport.
I've been there in early January and had good snow.
Winter Park in Colorado also has a good early season snow record, although less of a "traditional" experience (but then again, maybe it's American Traditional), in that there is some accomodation around the base area, and then there's the town which is a short drive away, but which really doesn't have a whole load to offer (and you'll probably need a car).
Excellent skiing, though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Aspen would be my choice - great town and not all glitz and glamour. Also easy access to Buttermilk and Snowmass.
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Aspen and Park City are about as expensive as they get though...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skilegs wrote: |
| Aspen would be my choice - great town and not all glitz and glamour. Also easy access to Buttermilk and Snowmass. |
yep - would be mine too for Xmas - if I could afford it 
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Head as far south as you can get. It is warmer. Try Taos in New Mexico. Amazing scenery.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Head as far south as you can get. It is warmer. Try Taos in New Mexico. Amazing scenery. |
Yeah, right. 'Snow sure' in warm weather early in the season! 
NOT!
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| sally s wrote: |
| Prefer smaller traditional resort I guess... |
I'm not being awkward, but I'm not sure that the words traditional and North America sit comfortably in the same sentence. There's such a tiny amount of really old stuff in the Western USA / Canada, that the bits that are left are often horrifically Disneyfied.
If you want traditional tradition, I'd go to Europe. Tradtional North American behaviour is to park your SUV in an enormous, heated car park underneath your spacious, luxururious purpose-built condo that overlooks the lift and the hot tub. It's a lifestyle that certainly has its merits, but if you're looking for tradition you might be disappointed.
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I think Mike Pow nailed it in the first respose in this thread. Given sally s's criteria, Big Mountain seems far and away the best bet.
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| ami in berlin wrote: |
| I think Mike Pow nailed it in the first respose in this thread. Given sally s's criteria, Big Mountain seems far and away the best bet. |
And Whitefish is a very fun traditional western town. There's a convenient ski bus from the ski-in/out accommodation on the hill to town so you can enjoy the good restaurants and shops down there. And the base village is pretty tasteful too, with plenty of choices on where to stay and prices not too bad. Skiing is definitely extensive and mostly intermediate, and snow record for Xmas is good.
Downsides - don't expect any sun, and I imagine its a little fiddly to get to from UK?
Fun place - our ski club is going there for NY, so I might even be there
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Head as far south as you can get. It is warmer. Try Taos in New Mexico. Amazing scenery. |
Well, talking about "traditional", the oldest continuously inhabited structure in North America is about as traditional as you can get!
( http://taospueblo.com/ )
But it is also true that the Southern Rockies snow cover is pretty unreliable - it can be feast or famine.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Beware Taos rates its terrains a littel "differently".
In my view, skier who're COMFORTABLE on average blacks are happier there than those who struggle on blacks.
It's not a big resort, and if I remember correctly, 50% of terrain is rated black, more above.
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Yes, it would not be ideal terrain-wise for sally s.
I would advise intermediate skiers going to Taos to stay in the town of Taos (not Taos Ski Valley) and also spend some daytrips skiing at the easier (but smaller) areas of Angel Fire and Red River - just 45 mins drive away.
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You know it makes sense.
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You're absolutely right, Martin! Taos is actually one of my favorate area.
I've been to Taos twice, first time during X'mas/New Year period. Coverage was poor. Not being good enough of a skier, I didn't exactly enjoy it. Some memory of standing at the top of some steep piste, with cliff on one side and rock pile on the other, questioning my sanity.
Second time was in Feb. 2-3 years later. Coverage was great, snow was soft, temperature was warm and the sun was out... You got the idea! I also knew what I was in for, and was prepared (some lessons and fair amount of practice in between the two trips) for the challenge. I went off-piste a lot, which is "expected" in the western resorts. Despite not having any freshly fallen powder, I had loads of fun. Taos is one quenticential "free skiing" area, where runs are defined mostly by rocks and cliffs instead of piste markers. Of course, I'm sure Matin knows that well.
Taos is a GREAT destination because it's SO different. Indian culture, scenary of surrounding area, and the skiing are all very, mmm... DIFFERENT!
Family who wants to tour the region in addition to skiing, in fantastic scenary, will be thrilled by doing a road trip as suggested by Martin. Powder hound or expert skier looking for terrain that challenge them would have a fabulous time at Taos itself. And it may well be a place that inspires intermediate skiers to get more "advance" in their skiing! However, X'mas/NY isn't exactly the best time though.
But the one thing Taos aren't great for, are beginer/intermediate skiers who just want to ski.
Sorry for the drift...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
Yes, it would not be ideal terrain-wise for sally s.
I would advise intermediate skiers going to Taos to stay in the town of Taos (not Taos Ski Valley) and also spend some daytrips skiing at the easier (but smaller) areas of Angel Fire and Red River - just 45 mins drive away. |
Given the original criteria of this thread, I suspect my suggestion of Alta/Snowbird is much more appropriate than Taos. And both are probably not good ideas
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Poster: A snowHead
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gortonator,
Yep, I don't think either Alta/Bird or Taos are good fits based on Sally's criteria. Since reading this thread I've taken a closer look at Big Mountain (now going by the name Whitefish Mountain Resort, BTW), Big White, Silver Star, and Sun Peaks. All I can say is I want to go to all of them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sally s wrote: |
| lots of nice reds and few blacks ... traditional resort |
| sally s wrote: |
| We also want easy skiing - ski in ski out - no bus rides |
Going back and looking at the "ski in ski out" condition which was added in Sally S's second email, there are actually only two resorts in the whole of N America that fulfil all her conditions:
1. Old traditional town - not a "purpose-built" resort.
2. Large ski area with lots of runs for intermediates.
3. You can stay in the heart of the old town and still walk to the chairlift.
Those two resorts are Breckenridge and Park City, which is undoubtedly why they're both very popular with the UK market.
Most other quaint ski towns in N America (Crested Butte, Taos, Jackson Hole, Stowe, Steamboat, Whitefish, Banff, Fernie, Rossland) are a bus ride from the slopes, although in some cases a very short one.
The only other two which are not (Aspen and Telluride) do not have large, predominantly intermediate ski areas. (Yes, Aspen has Snowmass but that is a 12-mile bus ride).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
| sally s wrote: |
| lots of nice reds and few blacks ... traditional resort |
| sally s wrote: |
| We also want easy skiing - ski in ski out - no bus rides |
Going back and looking at the "ski in ski out" condition which was added in Sally S's second email, there are actually only two resorts in the whole of N America that fulfil all her conditions:
1. Old traditional town - not a "purpose-built" resort.
2. Large ski area with lots of runs for intermediates.
3. You can stay in the heart of the old town and still walk to the chairlift.
Those two resorts are Breckenridge and Park City, which is undoubtedly why they're both very popular with the UK market.
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What about Sun Valley? Lots of accommodation at both lift bases, and a very short walk from Ketchum main st. Admittedly the Lodge is a short bus ride. The skiing is great for intermediates and its a fun place ...
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Been to Sun Valley twice and enjoyed it both times. It has a lot going for it in a whole host of ways for what Sally is looking for, particularly territory when the kids can go to an higher level than the parents without the parents worrying too much (I went there with my kids who are a lot better than I am)......but (1) it is not especially cheap though it is not necessarily prohibitively expensive if you look well enough and (2) it may fall down a bit on "snowsure" as it may not be the best early season resort and (3) it is not that easy to get to from the UK but I can say that if you can get to Boise, Idaho, the drive from there is no problem at all (in good weather). Ketchum was a lovely town for me and of course you may always end up on a chair with Bruce/Demi/Clint or Governor Arnie who all have houses in the area.... the best I got was a sight of Mrs Arnie in a bookshop
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"Traditional" and "snow sure" doesn't go altogether that well in N. America. After all, given all the free lands to settle, the pioneers try their hardest to choose to live in places that had as little snow as they could find!
"Traditional" and "not too expensive" don't go together all that well either. There're so few "traditional" places they all gone "up market", i.e. expensive.
Add ski-in/ski-out to that, you're down to handful of options, as Martin pointed out. All of them expensive, and not neccessarily snow sure.
What am I trying to say?
Drop the "traditional" bits, your options open up quite a bit.
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| gortonator wrote: |
What about Sun Valley? |
Sorry! You are absolutely right. I did mention it earlier, not sure why I missed it off that list - perhaps because it's not big with UK tour operators.
I have only skied there once (21 years ago) and I remember the skiing as being quite steep - but with a lot of grooming. I have also heard very good things about Baldy's snowmaking facilities.
Found a nice photo here:
http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/photos/uncategorized/sv_town.jpg
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| malcolm1 wrote: |
| (1) it is not especially cheap though it is not necessarily prohibitively expensive if you look well enough and (2) it may fall down a bit on "snowsure" as it may not be the best early season resort and (3) it is not that easy to get to from the UK but I can say that if you can get to Boise, Idaho, the drive from there is no problem at all (in good weather). |
They make a lot of snow at Sun Valley with enormous coverage - I've had good skiing there at Thx Giving when they usually open top-to-bottom. It has a fantastic consistent fall line, the best grooming I've ever seen, and a lift system that guarantees no lines.
And you can fly to Hailey - a few miles away - direct from SLC, and other places I suspect. But sure won't be cheap at Xmas/NY. Jan 3rd onwards ...
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Let's not get carried away saying that Whitefish and Sun Valley are hard to get to. You can get there with one change from the UK, just like everywhere else that's not near Denver, Calgary, Vancouver or SLC (can you fly direct to SLC from the UK?). Kalispel airport is very close to Whitefish, and at least from Seattle (served by BA) there are direct flights to Sun Valley. In fact, that means that you leave the airport much closer to the resort than you would if you went to a Denver area resort, so you have a shorter (and cheaper, remember this when you see that your flight is more expensive) ground transfer. Is Whitefish or Sun Valley really harder to get to than, say, Breck? Yes, but not massively so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Although the SLC resorts (Alta et al) promote themselves as the closest resorts to an International airport, Whitefish Mountain Resort is closer, about 20 mins from Kalispell airport. And unlike Eagle and the one near Gunnison it's big enough for jet aircraft.
UK - Minneapolis - Kalispell (FCA)
UK - Seattle - Kalispell
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FAQ
