Beginner thinks... I wish I could ski like him/her.
Expert thinks.... I'm glad I don't ski like him/her anymore.
Intermediate thinks.... I'm glad I don't ski like him/her anymore or I wish I could ski like him/her.
A beginner is someone who skis in a near permanent snowplough.
An intermediate is anyone I'm better than.
An expert is anyone who is better than me.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Control is the catchword.
Skiing and boarding are simply about one's control of two slippy planks or a greasy tray in all on- and off-piste conditions.
A beginner has little control (roughly 0 - 20%).
An intermediate has partial control (21 - 60%)
An advanced has lots of control (61 - 90%).
An expert has near-total control (91 - 100%).
Bumps are by far the best way to grade any skier (or boarder).
You can't blag it in the bumps.
Pick a steep, black piste with tall, uneven moguls. There are plenty in Verbier, St Anton, Val d'Isere, Argentiere etc.
A beginner will snowplow down in a wide arc, looking petrified.
An intermediate will come down semi-parallel in a modest arc, looking nervous.
An advanced will parallel down in a zigzag fashion, occasionally giving the game away by reverting temporarily to semi-parallel or losing balance.
An expert will S-turn straight down the fall-line, bouncing from turn to turn, with their arms held out permanently frozen like a tightrope walker.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Whitegold, completely disagree, consistency is the catchword.
Consistency faced with varied terrain, consistency faced with varied conditions of that terrain, consistency faced with fatigue, consistency faced with varied fitness level and training, consistency faced with gear in various condition.
Every whinge about any of the above (too icy, too crusty, too heavy, too steep, too bumped, too tired, too fat "out of shape", edges too dull), remove one level from self-estimate.
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A beginner will snowplow down in a wide arc, looking petrified.
No - a beginner when faced with a black bumps run will take there skis off and walk down.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
II wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
A beginner will snowplow down in a wide arc, looking petrified.
No - a beginner when faced with a black bumps run will take there skis off and walk down.
Nah.
A beginner will get two turns down it then take the rest on their back/side/head/face.
At least, that is what I did when faced with my first mogul slope in Verbier on my third day on skis
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The problem is what isn't an intermediate. My definition of a beginner is someone who uses a both ski weighted snowplough technique to turn. I think anyone who uses a largely outside ski weighted technique to turn, even if wedged or stemmed, is an intermediate. My definition of advanced is anyone who can consistently maintain appropriate form, in all but the most challenging conditions (steep or bumpy ice, deep snow). I don't think the inability to go down the fall-line in red bumps is a preclusion - hero skiing isn't a prerequisite in this category - more the ability to choose an efficient, calm line without losing balance or form. Similarly to consistently cleanly carve reds is in my estimation much too high a cut-off; I'd say to be able to consistently leave twin tracks railing on a proper blue would be sufficient. My definition of expert is someone who within the limits of safety can do almost whatever turn they like pretty consistently whatever the skiable situation - hero skiing is a prerequisite in this category! All imho.
edited to clarify
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 9-07-07 18:05; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
An intermediate skier should not be so arbitrary.It is a level of skill and represents the instruction they have received and the competence reached. It is a term to someone who has taken a lot of lessons - at least 8 weeks, and can ski competently with style, ease and confidence down all runs except bump runs.
That's me then
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Intermediate.
Attaches skis with nervous anticipation at the beginning of the week.
Lovingly removes skis at end of week, with regret and a beaming grin.
IMO
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'm intermediate for my skiing. Sometimes I ski better than usual, sometimes worse. When I ski better for sustained periods, then the definition of intermediate for my skiing increases.
Otherwise it's just a load of guff designed to create arguments or make one person's ability conform to another's list. (and that can either build someone up, or knock them down)
If you're unsure, the best thing to do is listen to the experts. Just remember that the definition of "Expert" is possibly a bigger argument than "Intermediate"
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Wear The Fox Hat, so are you intermediate or indeterminate?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You graduate to being a good intermediate skier when you can achieve this
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
veeeight,
Ha ha ha ..most useful.
I'd more than likely ask what does a skier fancy skiing and agree that all these tags have a pretty wise leeway and you don't really know until you ski with someone outside their comfort zone.
I've seen this question asked many times, in different variation. There's simply no simple answer to that.
One of the good answer I heard is "An intermediate is advanced when compare to beginers, a beginer when compared to advanced".
Personally, I don't distinguish advanced from expert. I don't quite see the point, except for instrutors perhaps.
But for the purpose of choosing a suitable run in a resort, it's perfectly appropriate to just equate intermediate skier to intermediate runs. Anyone who can comfortably ski red runs all day is an intermediate.
If an intermediate can venture onto black runs when the condition is good, that's an advance intermediate. A true advanced (on-piste) skier should be comfortable skiing most blacks in average conditions, and make it down without shaking legs even when it's a bit icy.
Scarpa wrote:
Hucking???? How about just falling off the drops. I am an expert at that
Some people get started that way.
If you land on your feet and ski away, it's a huck.
If you land in a heap, it's a fall.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 9-07-07 21:23; edited 2 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
veeeight, Hmmm.......yes, I guess somewhere in the middle of those two - I'll have to practice the old sideslip when I next get onto snow. My instructor on holiday made it look so simple. Edges in the snow stand still, weight off, stand more upright both skis slide parallel vertically down the hill.......yeah.....like that happens when I try it One of those little tricks that I swear is harder than it looks!!!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Megamum wrote:
weight off, stand more upright both skis slide parallel vertically down the hill.......yeah.....like that happens when I try it
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Megamum, you can't beat Xscape for practising those kind of drills.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
comprex, I seem to either go nowhere (maybe not confident to take all the weight off), but most often I end up moving forwards despite being confident that I have got skis in the right position 90 degrees relative to slope of the hill to begin with.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, ah.
What would you say if I was to propose that the -exact- 90 degrees doesn't matter half so much as a proportional weight split front to back?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
comprex, Ahh........so I must be leaning forward too much. It's as much about keeping the weight balanced in the middle of the ski as having the skis in the correct position relative to the hill...Yes? I'll watch that next time I try it. However, I still think its a little trick that looks easier to do than it is. I'll aim next holiday to master it, that way I'll be able to do it if I get to VT next year and need it on unfamiliar territory. It seems a handy thing to be able to do if it suddenly gets too steep.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's a superbly handy thing to know to attempt when one wishes to determine edge sharpness or torsional stiffness underneath a given body weight or to look at alignment issues either front to back or side to side. It's a great way to demonstrate the effect of a loaded pack on balance, for example.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Its funny, i can be a beginner, intermediate and expert all on the same run. Especially after last week skiing in rain, fog and gales! at the lovely mt ruapehu. Also the more beer i drink the better i think i am at skiing. Good job i dont drink when skiing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I posted a good example of advanced side-slipping on "Post some stoke" yesterday.
Defenitions of "intermediate", "Advanced" and "expert" depend on context. For British package tour operators an expert is someone who can get down a black run. For a Swiss mountain dweller an expert would be an extreme skier or world cup racer. I assume we are trying to define a meaning acceptable to a wide range of British skiers and I find the SCGB gradings as good as any.
Where most clients (from UK/Europe) come unstuck is at Level 5, "I am able to ski strong parallel turns on all blue runs and easy black runs." They don't realise that "easy black runs" at WB are mostly ungroomed (off piste) and involve bumps/moguls of some description!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Having the vid to show what's actually meant by the specific terms is a really good idea - gets away from those subtle variations of meaning we all put on the words we use. BTW are those examples of essentially the entry to each level or the exit - i.e. when you're ready to move on to the next? E.g. if I was trying to work out what level I should sign up for, I'd reckon I'd manage to match that level 5 example fairly easily (and maybe even beat it by a bit), could probably do most of the level 6 moves shown as individual moves, but I've a long way to go to match it for fluidity. So if that were the entry level example, I should go for the level 5 class, right?
At first sight, also, I would say there actually seemed to be the biggest difference in amount of the mountain you can ski when moving from level 3 to 4 in that montage. And not wishing to stoke up the skier/snowboarder debate (well maybe only a little ), it looked to me as if the level 4 skiers were way more suitable for varied terrain than the level 4 snowboarders - and only the level 6 snowboarder example really looked ready for getting out and about on the mountain.
are those examples of essentially the entry to each level or the exit
It aims to show a typical representative skier/boarder in that level, and of course, each level will have a variation within it (which is why we do a ski off to split within the levels).
And yes you're right, the biggest jump is from Level 3 to Level 4, all of a sudden, blue and dark blue runs loom ahead!
But as valuable as video is, it is also quite deceiving, the Level 6 clip for example, is near the top of the (Saudan) Couloir Extreme (42deg), on a horrible re-frozen crappy snow surface (not much spray, not soft) - and yet on the vid it looks like a blue run!
Just as important as skills & technique, is intent/attitude.
If you put yourself in a Level 5 group, you should come prepared mentally to ski bumps/moguls, powder, trees etc. Again, this is where many people come unstuck, they sign up for a Level 5, but aren't willing to go off the groomers, but don't want the perceived "shame" of going in a Level 4 group.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
veeeight, I like the video, it gives a much clearer example than words ever do. However, I have an issue with why all the schemes for grading boarding ability assume all boarders go over the mountain and in parks. The fact that someone can nail a 720 backflip switch dosn't mean they are able to consistently link turns through a steep mogul field and vice-versa, although I suppose this is a rant for another time.
Anyway, nice way of illustrating with video.
After all it is free
After all it is free
veeeight, Who was the instructor for those 2 guys as they have made remarkable progress
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Frosty the Snowman,
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
veeeight, the video is a great idea, but the drawback comes with someone interpreting how they think they ski.
I think that seeing a video of your own skiing is a good way of comparing it to others, and if you build up a personal video collection over a period of time you can watch how your skiing changes.
For me, I now ski the way I thought I skiied 5 years ago.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
