 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi all, great forum by the way, I need help selecting a location and accommodation for our next ski holiday.
We were thinking of club med mainly because of the all inclusive factor, but from some posts I've read here it seams many of you aren't reallly fans of it.
We will be comming all the way from Australia so we want to get it right. Also there is not much info avail here except for the Club med and expensive type places, even with the internet it is still hard to work out what you will be getting. So here is our detail and what we are looking for and i hope as many of you as possible can give us some suggestions so i at least have a starting point for more research. We have been skiing 5 times (so thats only 5 week experience), ski intermediate runs in Australia but went to Grindelwald last year and only skiied the blue runs.
2 adults and 2 teenagers, 13 and 15 all beginner to easy intermediate ability
Date wanting to travel - around 1st or 2nd week of Jan08
we want ski in /ski out location
France or switzerland but in French speaking area (kids taking French at school)
High altitude - for more reliability for good snow seeing as we need to go early Jan
Lodge or Hotel that includes both breakfast and dinner
not too expensive, so probably a 3 or 3.5 star
PLEASE HELP with suggestions either hotels or at least just regions that you think might suit us.
Untill you have actually skiied at the area it is really hard to tell just looking at a piste map
Looking forward to your replies and Thankyou in advance.
Lynn
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Hi Lynn,
A useful resource might be www.ultimate-ski.com. It's not sponsored by the resorts so views are independent - and written by people who know the areas well.
Portes du Soleil area - one of the largest areas in Europe spanning France and French speaking Swiss resorts, and I IMHO a bit of an intermediate paradise; the area (at least the French sectors) tends to do better for snow than its altitude would suggest.. Avoriaz has good height, a club med plus a selection of hotels that would do full board and should be ski in-out. Alternatives in the area include Morzine and Les Gets if you prefer more alpine ambiance although you're unlikely to get ski in-out. Also very easy from Geneva - although depending how you route through you mind arrive into Zurich. Check www.avoriaz.com for accomodation - I believe that the search engine is quite flexible (but never used it).
There'll be plenty more suggestions along soon...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Club Med is a very 'French' experience. Although your kids are doing French at school, and may be keen to practise, they will benefit more from having their ski lessons in English.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
They are not keen to have lessons, although if they were included such as at club med I'm sure they would use at least some.
Their experience with lessons in Australia has put them off. And yes definatly in English their french is not that good, just thought it would be fun for them to actually try using it. Have just had a look at Avoriaz and it does look good. My 15 year old is really more just beginner level even though she has been skiing the same number of times as the 13 year old.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
aussie ski bunny, welcome to snowheads
If your 15 year old is beginner level then please please please get them to have lessons, don't let bad habits become ingrained. Having said that, the french ski school ESF has had bad press regarding its english language classes in varying resorts; once you;ve decided on a resort, you may wish to ask for recommendations of ski schools or even specific instructors
I'd suggest also looking at the resorts on the Haute Savoie - La Rosiere, the Espace Killy (Tignes and Val d'Isere) and Paradiski (Les Arcs and La Plagne). The latter two ski areas each cover multiple resorts and off many many miles of great skiing for all abilities, while La Rosiere offers the chance to hop over into Italy. You could even try a two centre holiday quite easily this way as the resorts are close enoug to permit a quick hop over, or even day trips
mysnowsports.com is run by a chap whoc lives in the valley, he may be able to offre more advice and info
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
At least in early Jan it wont be French school holidays. Has anyone here actually stayed at any of the Club Med places?
So far we are looking at Les Menuires, Les arcs 2000 and Avoriaz as the general areas that might be suitable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
aussie ski bunny, how are things in 'Wait Awhile', I've got some good memories of the time I spent in Perth and Fremantle. The suggestion about flights to Paris is a good one as you can get a TGV to just about any of the main Alpine resorts in both the Northern and Southern Alps. Alternatively a flight to Geneva could enable you to link up with a British tour operator, who mostly use Geneva. If you are willing to consider a chalet holiday instread of a hotel this could give you access to a wider set of options, most of the chalet operators offer transfers to/from Geneva. For an indication of what's available have a look at our website www.tracksvacations.com La Rosiere has already been recommended and it could be a good choice for you. The village is small and friendly, it's popular with Aussies, certainly the ones who work here in the season, it's got a very good snow record, consistently in the top five French resorts for snow cover, it has a link to Italy on the single ski-pass which is great value, there are 3 very good ski schools in the village. January is always quiet and good value and if you want to try different resorts the 3 biggest resorts in France, Val d'Isere, Tignes and Les Arcs are all within 40 minutes drive.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 4-07-07 10:58; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
aussie ski bunny,
I will put in my usual recommendation as most other people have.
Early january is a time of very variable snow falls you can hope for reasonable snow in most places but some years the snow will be patchy or very icy if it hasnt snowed for a while.
Nowhere is sure to have good snow though it is more common in some areas than others.
Although going high may increase your chances of good snow there are some years where it is much better early season in the lower resorts of the prealps or the southern alps.
Providing that your holiday does not coincide with the new year period there is should be no difficulty in getting reasonably priced accommodation in early january at the last minute in the resort of your choice according to where the snow is.
If I was coming all the way from Oz at that time I would book flights to a convenent airport such as Geneva and then book accommodationmuch closer to the time by where the snow has fallen. If possible at that time of the year I would go for somewhere with a decent amount of skiing below the tree line in case the weather is stormy. Glaciers and high altitude skiing are great when the snow is poor elsewhere and the weather is warm but if it is cold and windy they can be very bleak places.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| aussie ski bunny wrote: |
| So far we are looking at Les Menuires, Les arcs 2000 and Avoriaz as the general areas that might be suitable. |
You might want to add Courchevel (village at 1850m preferably) to your shortlist as I think it offers everything you've listed, plus has a couple of very good British run ski schools which would improve your kids perception of ski lessons considerably.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
| aussie ski bunny wrote: |
| So far we are looking at Les Menuires, Les arcs 2000 and Avoriaz as the general areas that might be suitable. |
Oh dear, may as well throw in Tignes for the full house of 60s brutalism 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| brian wrote: |
| Oh dear, may as well throw in Tignes for the full house of 60s brutalism |
.....might as well add Flaine to the list if you want a full house of ugly resorts!
That said it's worth checking out as it's ski in/ski out from lots of the accommodation has great skiing for all standards across the Grand Massif area and we had some great english speaking lessons from ESI there (although it was a while ago now). If you don't mind missing out on the ski convenience then Les Carroz is a great place to stay and avoid the ugly car parks that pass as hotels and appartments in Flaine itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Can I also add that perhaps lessons would help you to explore the area a bit more than just sticking to the blues. Your teachers will take you to places you may not attempt on your own. If you want to still stick to blues, and not have lessons, then choose a smaller, cheaper resort, there would be no need to choose somewhere large. Why not try a Mark Warner place instead of Club Med?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| aussie ski bunny wrote: |
Has anyone here actually stayed at any of the Club Med places?
|
I think the point is that - as far as their Ski Resorts are concerned - it isn't usually English speakers staying there - a bit different from their Summer Resorts perhaps? Probably wrong - just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I think Axsman stayed at one (Alpe d'HUez), but wasn't very impressed, or rather his teenagers weren't , which probably sums it up really. We stayed in one about 12 years ago (Flaine) so too far back to comment , although food was good, and so was the childcare for young ones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
At least in early Jan it wont be French school holidays.
|
As long as you don't arrive until 5th Jan - resorts will be packed until then. Best to wait until week beginning 12th, if you can - more chance of good snow. I think La Rosiere could well suit you, but most of the accommodation there is not ski in, ski out (that is probably not as vital as you think, as long as there is a good bus service, or not too far to walk). Personally I don't think Les Deux Alpes would be so good (sorry, easiski!) because the routes back down to the village are difficult and somewhat intimidating.
I don't know how much you know about the very British tradition of "catered chalets". There's heaps of arguments on Snowheads about their pros and cons. We always went to chalets till we bought our own apartment, generally fairly downmarket ones (they get as expensive as you like) and always enjoyed it. Good for teenagers, more chance of meeting others to ski with, and because you can take your own "duty frees" and get "tea and cakes" thrown in, after skiing, it saves a lot of money. Buying every single beer or cup of coffee in a hotel can cost a bomb. There are masses of chalets and if you chose a middle sized one (say around 16 people) you would have to be very unlucky to find yourself with all disagreeable fellow guests! Amongst good operators to look at (reliable and good value) are Ski Olympic. There have been plenty of good reports on the trax vacations chalet, too.
I would 100% echo the advice above about lessons. The quality of the ski tuition is the single most important factor to take into account - there's plenty of advice on here about that, too. Good instruction is fairly costly, but well worth it, for the whole family. If ski in/out is important La Plagne would probably be a good bet, though it doesn't have a great deal of "resort character". Belle Plagne is quite attractive. The advice on tree skiing is good, too (and a plus point for La Plagne). Places like Tignes are really grim in cold windy weather. But a lot of chalets in La Plagne are in Plagne 1800, which is not too convenient for access to the rest of the resort (no doubt someone will shortly come along and dispute that!).
Despite being a francophile I would also agree with the caution about Club Med. Huge great groups and French speaking instruction would be enough to put your kids off lessons for life. They might also find that the only other beginner/early intermediate skiers were all 6 years old; most French teenagers ski rather well!
A final point about chalets - quite a few of them have ski guides who will take groups of different abilities out to explore the area, a really big advantage if you are a bit under confident.
There's no rush to book accommodation for January, so take your time deciding on a resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I would add to the recommendation of Les Arcs. There is a big hotel in 2000 but It doesn't seem to have good press. We went to Les Arcs 1800 at New Year stayiong in the Du Golf. Excellent hotel and in prime location. I would also second the option of staying in a catered chalet. Try www.chaletsdirect.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Buying every single beer or cup of coffee in a hotel can cost a bomb. |
As well as being decidedly greedy, what about the poor other guests ?! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| aussie ski bunny wrote: |
| , Les arcs 2000 . |
425km of skiing at your doorstep. We go every year 1st week of January and it is dead. Fantastic sking and pretty damn snow sure. However as somone else points out it is a bit of an ugly concrete jungle but that aside the skiing is amazing for all levels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Wow my head is spinning with all that info.  Will take a while and look at all the areas mentioned Thankyou.
Club Med just sounded easy but I guess a great holiday is more important. Excelent point about booking our flights
early but leaving the accommodation to much closer to the time to see where the best conditions are.
And you are right about the lesson thing. I can say for sure my 15 year old would refuse to have lessons with a bunch of 6 year olds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You are traveling far. So you should make the best choice possible.
First, go high.
The village must be atleast 1500 meters, preferably 1800 meters.
Second, pick a worldclass resort.
It should have good daylife, cool nightlife and plenty of decent runs.
That limits your choice to just a handful, like St Moritz, Zermatt and Val d'Isere.
If I had to pick one, it would be St Moritz, the world's best allround ski resort.
Enjoy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Whitegold,
Did you actually read what the question was?
aussie ski bunny, requested a French speaking resort that rules out two of your choices
She ? also asked for something for beginers and relatively early intermediates which makes Val d'I less than ideal.
She is also cost conscious which makes a 'World Class' whatever that is possibly less suitable.
Height does not guarantee the best snow early season it depends where it has fallen, there have been many times when lower resorts have more snow than higher ones.
I do agree with your last sentiment though 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
aussie ski bunny, if your kids and yourself all ski at the same standard, it may be just as cheap to book a few private lessons with an English-speaking instructor. They wouldn't be in children's ski school anyway if they are over 12.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
T Bar, does he ever ?
To add to your list: In terms of average snowcover, 1500m in the Alpes-Maritimes != 1500m in the Haute-Savoie != 1500m in the Tirol etc. etc. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
brian,
Very true ,
I could also question whether Val d'Isere is actually French speaking it's almost as anglophonic as Meribel. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Yes well if money was unlimited I guess it would be much easier to deside on a location and lodging. We would all like to stay somewhere worldclass. Considering it will cost us AUD$9000 for the 4 of us to fly there (thats about 3800 pounds) we will be looking for the best value for money we can get.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As long as you come after the new year week you'll have a good choice of accomodation - I'd agree with booking flights to Geneva first and then choosing accomodation as the snow pattern becomes clear. For me, going all that way, you want a bit of Alpine charm rather than purpose built places...Morzine's maybe a good choice because you can get up to Avoriaz no problem and it's much prettier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
You should get an apartment
|
But it didn't sound as though aussie ski bunny was looking for self catering. Nor for a place with the reputation for difficult skiing that Zermatt has (maybe wrongly, I've never been there). Don't forget, aussie ski bunny, come as late in January as you can, for best likelihood of snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
pam w, I would agree that Zermatt is not great for low intermediate skiers. The easiest runs are very high and subject to poor visibility and high wind, especially at that time of year. When lifts are shut due to these conditions, everyone is funnelled onto quite steep and narrow runs. The majority of people were not coping at all well in these conditions when I was there last season in January.
Added to the facts that it's German speaking, relatively expensive and most of the accommodation is remote from the ski areas, I believe it's not one of Whitegold's better suggestions, given aussie ski bunny's requirements. I love it though!
aussie ski bunny, you might like to consider http://www.simonbutlerskiing.co.uk in Megève, France. Their package includes instruction at all levels, by native English speakers. They're good value for money, though the resort itself is not cheap. If you take your own packed lunch to the slopes you should get by without too much by way of extras. The only other requirement that it wouldn't meet is ski in/out, but the bus leaves from right outside every 15 mins and takes no more than 10 mins.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
laundryman, Megeve in January for snow sureness?? I think not...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
David Murdoch, I've been to Megève at New Year four times in the last dozen years without problem. I've been even more often before Christmas, mainly without problem. When there has been limited coverage at that time, the establishment I mentioned has bussed all its guests to neighbouring resorts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Tehre are some very nice independent chalets out there that will do fully catered to a high standard
|
and at a very high price. My son cooked in one last season, that cost up to £2000 per head, per week, accommodation only. The sky's the limit. I suspect that we need to know more about aussie ski bunny's priorities. For example, to know what they liked, and didn't like, about their Grindelwald holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The Club Med thing.
I've not stayed in one. But I met a fellow on the plane going and coming back to last year's MSB. He was skiing at St. Moritz and his cost is about the same as mine!!! So much for Club Med being expensive -- not necceessary.
The trick though, he booked his trip very close to the time.
So, sort out the flight first and leave the resort to the last minute as others all suggested. And if a resort has Club Med in it, you can include them as an option as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Tehre are some very nice independent chalets out there that will do fully catered to a high standard
|
and at a very high price. My son cooked in one last season, that cost up to £2000 per head, per week, accommodation only. The sky's the limit. I suspect that we need to know more about aussie ski bunny's priorities. For example, to know what they liked, and didn't like, about their Grindelwald holiday. |
That would be out of my league but there appear to be alot in and around the tour operators price bracket that on the face of it seem higher quality- I suspect your son must be a good chef
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
laundryman, Fair do's, you have experience that I don't, but my received wisdom was that Megeve didn't have enough high terrain to be really snow sure. If you're making the trip from Oz, I'd personally want to be in one of the resorts that you get bussed to rather than from... It's a lovely village however, with some great art galleries. [Not really ski on and out though either  ]
Folks, one argument (and I make no claims to its validity) against not booking ahead is that if you've flown half way around the world to discover a (second in a row) late start to the European season (oh I really,really do hope not) - you might find that late booking for resorts with snow is a tad tricky.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
I suspect your son must be a good chef
|
He is, but he's just applying to do a D. Phil. in Artificial Intelligence, so they might have to find a new chef next winter, though I wouldn't put it past him to try to do both at once, for a few weeks at least if not the whole season. Those Top Dog chalets are absurd, however good the food; we always stayed in low or medium cost chalets and always found they were good value for money. I agree with the advice to avoid the mass operators though, there are plenty of independents.
| Quote: |
you might find that late booking for resorts with snow is a tad tricky.
|
that's probably true, actually. But there's still plenty of time to choose a resort first, then do some in-depth research on specific accommodation options and book in a few month's time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
David Murdoch,
| Quote: |
Folks, one argument (and I make no claims to its validity) against not booking ahead is that if you've flown half way around the world to discover a (second in a row) late start to the European season (oh I really,really do hope not) - you might find that late booking for resorts with snow is a tad tricky.
|
My own experience is that if conditions are perceived as poor it is even easier to book as people generalise about conditions. I seem to recall that easiski was saying last year there were fewer visitors in Les 2 Alpes because of talk of poor conditions even though the snow there was excellent. I hasten to add this is for low season bookings, for high season bookings I would not take the risk but I have never heard of anyone having problems in the first couple of weeks of january.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
