 Poster: A snowHead
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Been skiing a few years now and seem to have reached the dreaded intermediate plateau. I did 2 weeks of lessons at the start and non-since  This year we thought that we might forego our traditional early December lads trip, and dedicate a few days to some intensive tuition.
So what would you recommend, in Europe, for a middle-aged intermediate, reasonably fit and not nervous? Warren Smith maybe? or something else....
Thanks in advance
Steve
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Warren Smith. No need to forego the lads trip element either, there is usually a very good social side to the courses
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SteveKirby, No comment!
Seriously though, if you want to really improve you should go for 1-1 or maybe 2-1. If you go on a course you'll be in a group again. It's not nearly so effective. 
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| Quote: |
| Best way off the intermediate plateau? |
Downwards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spend a week in summer at Les Deux Alpes with Easiski??
You could take a lesson and then practice between lessons...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Oh and if you have spent a few years at being an intermediate remember it may take a bit of work to ditch the bad habits you will have developed
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SteveKirby, I found the best thing I did to get kick-started again was to book on a snoworks course last year. Great instruction at what I thought was a pretty reasonable price and good fun too 
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SteveKirby, another vote for Snoworks from me. I've done several weeks with them over the years, and it's been the one thing which has had the most impact on my skiing (and my enjoyment of skiing).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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cathy, They looked pretty good with lots of options.
How much of the resort you were in did you ski ? Were you mostly on the same slopes or did you go to a variety of different spots ?
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rob@rar, would you still do all terrain courses now or do you feel there're only so many you can do before you need to go for the more focussed courses?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks everyone. Had not considered Snoworks.
easiski point taken! 
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SteveKirby, 1 - 1 or 1 - 2 lessons on some fairly easy terrain with easiski,
It is not rocket science, but it is hard to teach a group individually . Groups are great fun but for intense therapy it has to be a few personal lessons. All IMHO of course
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You know it makes sense.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| rob@rar, would you still do all terrain courses now or do you feel there're only so many you can do before you need to go for the more focussed courses? |
No, I'd go for off-piste now, or more race training.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Oh and if you have spent a few years at being an intermediate remember it may take a bit of work to ditch the bad habits you will have developed
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 Don't like the sound of that much!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SteveKirby, what make you think you've reached the "dreaded plateau"? Is it skiiing the same red/blue pistes gets boring but you don't know where to go next or dare to go beyond that? Or did you get wobbly on certain piste, feel out of control when condition changes or found yourself in over your head some time?
If it's simply just not comfortable going beyond what you're used to and needed some more challenge, but under the watchful eyes of an instructor and with the support of others in similar situation, group lesson of higher level (e.g. WS, Snowwork etc.) would likely be a fun and challenging way to push your boundary and improve.
If you're experiencing difficulties on certain common conditions, then you might be better off working with an instructor 1-on-1 to get that taken care of before you start picking up more bad habits.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, Interesting... It's more the latter then the former I think. I'm happy to have a crack at most things, and on straightforward terrain I have no problems. When it gets steeper/mogulled etc, I can still get down OK, but it all gets a bit messy. I would love to be able to do the trickier stuff with some style instead of resorting to skidding the tails!
Maybe 1-1 would be better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SteveKirby wrote: |
| Quote: |
Oh and if you have spent a few years at being an intermediate remember it may take a bit of work to ditch the bad habits you will have developed
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Don't like the sound of that much!! |
yes it is sad... but much harder to "unlearn" than to just learn new stuff
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SteveKirby, if it's a couple of you, and you're doing essentially piste stuff, then a few 1-2s as easiski suggests, with practice time in between where you can each critique each other would work quite well. If you're on your own, though, or hitting the off-piste, then I'd go with the Snoworks route (I've also had 4 really good weeks with them) - as they'll probably get you into challenging terrain for more time and more profitably than you'd do (or it'd be sensible to do) by yourself between privates. You'd be in groups of proabbly about 6 with them, but you get very detailed individual feedback and it's a very good halfway house between a private and a group lesson approach. From what you say though - and if you're very clear about where you want to be at the end of it - a few intensive sessions may be the better route.
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rob@rar, that's what I figure too 
SteveKirby, I can only echo what others have already said. If you think you might have fundamentals to correct (probably applies to just about everyone) private lessons with a talented instructor of the likes of easiski are probably what would be of most help. If you want to take on more but want to be eased into it with pointers on what skills to use/need working on try alpinecoaching or snoworks who are both excellent (if carlsberg did ski lessons...) though offering somewhat different products.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is a very good thread (for me)  SteveKirby, thanks for raising the issue.
For techniques, private 1-on-1 is unbeatable.
For learning to apply the right technique to suit different condition, and hitting as many different kind of conditions as one could during a week of time, the group lesson mentioned above would surely offers nice varied exposure.
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abc, then there's just plain more -intense- snow time
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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II, rob@rar, agreed re Rupert Goldring. He was our instructor in Val last season, on Gareth Roberts' recommendation (another top chap) and we had a blast. It's a small world
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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let me guess, you ski for 1 week at a time. I would advise moving up to 2 week ski holidays followed by a few long weekends sprinkled throughout season. Also concentrate more, feel the mountain and try to push yourself whilst keeping control ... oh yah and if its your kinda thing get some lessons!
The reason I say 2 weeks is that I always find 1 week holidays to be just enough to remember what stage i ws at by day 4 then 1/2 days of good skiing and then all forgotten by the time i next time i ski, where as the 2nd week gets me up to where i was by day 4 then into a new zone by day 7 and still 5 days to get used to all these new abilities!
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I have done a lot of solo or small group skiing - I try to think at the top of each run 'What am I going to try here ?' and then try it.
If I ski in a big group, It is too easy to get carried away with the banter etc and not concentrate on the skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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The problem for SteveKirby, is that he says he did 2 weeks of lessons (I presume he means ski school in big groups) when he started and nothing since. Therefore he is almost certain to have major basic faults to correct. (Sorry, but let's call a spade a spade). In those situations hints and tips don't work, only hard work to correct the faults and replace them with good habits will do the trick. The sooner it's done the less hard the work.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| easiski wrote: |
| The problem for SteveKirby, is that he says he did 2 weeks of lessons (I presume he means ski school in big groups) when he started and nothing since. Therefore he is almost certain to have major basic faults to correct. (Sorry, but let's call a spade a spade). |
I would think this is undoubtably true. You really need a discerning eye to get beyond this. Even if you put a lot of hard work in yourself and with friends, it is such a laboured way to go....and with no garauntees.
Bite the bullet and get some intensive tuition..and then make sure you can retain this info/lessons/drills. IMV
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ah, but does the "dreaded intermediate plateau" actually exist?
Or is it that the learning curve is far less steep the more you ski, and when combined with no lessons/coaching and six days a year on snow - that it flattens further still?
So; you are still improving, but it's hard to tell.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
Ah, but does the "dreaded intermediate plateau" actually exist?
Or is it that the learning curve is far less steep the more you ski, and when combined with no lessons/coaching and six days a year on snow - that it flattens further still?
So; you are still improving, but it's hard to tell. |
It existed for me I think. Whatever difference I made in my skiing was about perfecting my bad habits but not enabling me to ski more of the mountain in control. My skiing technique was changing, but to little effect. It was only when I went back to ski school that things began to improve.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lots of ways off here
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Yoda wrote: |
| Lots of ways off here |
And all of them down! Nice photo - where is that?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I was stuck for ages, hanging by my fingertips, barely on the plateau. Some great lessons and lots of practice now see me sat comfortably in the middle. The only way forward for me would be lots more skiing and more good lessons.
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rob@rar, I believe that it's Roraima, maybe inspiration for Conan Doyle?
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Mosha Marc,
I believe it exists because folks become happy with the status quo... they stop taking lessons, develop bad habits, these are hard to break so it requires MORE work to change than if they had just plodded along learning...
When you consider that according to some I am not supposed to be able to ski(according to resort doctor it is too dangerous for me) and then look at the fact that I have never yet hit a plateau but instead improved every year (I'll admit it requires a bit of work).... This according to my instructors is quite expected - I have stuff I have not learnt yet - but no bad habits... and because of how I have been forced to have lessons in order to learn to ski at all I have a very good attitude to lessons and changes in my skiing... for me both those things are a part of skiing... hence no plateau...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for all the good advice everyone, beginning to think that some intensive 1 to 1 is the way forward.
easiski,
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Therefore he is almost certain to have major basic faults to correct.
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How very dare you!!
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SteveKirby, easiski said
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SteveKirby, is that he says he did 2 weeks of lessons (I presume he means ski school in big groups) when he started and nothing since. Therefore he is almost certain to have major basic faults to correct. (Sorry, but let's call a spade a spade). In those situations hints and tips don't work, only hard work to correct the faults and replace them with good habits will do the trick. The sooner it's done the less hard the work.
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Oh dear that sounds like some serious one legged skiing is in order (or is that reserved for me).
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FAQ
But to be honest I never got bored with that and I had tuition morning and afternoon. I think though normally they do ski around the terrain a lot and don't just stick to a few pistes.
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