 Poster: A snowHead
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on a par with ski olympic, v good value/ get on and experience them they are good
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| red 27 wrote: |
| halfhand wrote: |
Just thought I'd update  on my Alpine Elements experience. Thanks for the prompt admin |
ah.... the fog begins to lift.... |
There's nothing particularly foggy going on.
I often get contacted by companies uncomfortable about criticism they have received on snowHeads and last week I was contacted by the MD of Alpine Elements who had become aware of this topic because it shows very strongly in a Google search for their name.
Looking at the topic, Halfhand had said he was expecting to stay with them but hadn't reported back since, so I PM'd him to ask whether his experience matched the previous comments. He explained, well, pretty well what you see above so I suggested he post his story to this topic to help complete the picture.
I then spoke to Mr. Alpine Elements.
He was understandably uncomfortable with this topic esp. as it seemed to be so one sided. He explained that they had made many changes to their products since last year and felt they had dealt with last year's problems to the extent that this topic unfairly represented where they were at now.
His initial request was that I deal with the issue by removing the topic (aparently another forum had agreed to this approach). Naturally I explained that this was not the way we like to do things and could lead to other problems. So he asked my advice on how I thought it best to deal with it.
Obviously I suggested he address the issues head-on on the forum as we've all seen this done very effectively in the past but, being unfamiliar with forums, he was somewhat uncomfortable posting (many people are you know). As a result his response did not really come over the way he had in discussion. He asked my opinion, which pretty well matched Halfhand's above and when I told him so, he asked me if I was able to remove it so he could have another shot. Since there were no subsequent posts at that point, I agreed.
I'm sure Mr AE will be back before long, to have his say - as he rightly deserves to do.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This type of situation is not new to forums across the internet.
Naming and shaming is something that all TO will have to accept, such is the nature of the internet.
It is however difficult for TO to keep track of any allegations, whether they are true or not and I personally feel that forum admins would be right in contacting TO to let them know the situation so that they may reply.
On the plus side, freedom of speech, so long as its is accurate and not slanderous, is good for all as it enables everyone to make a "more informed judgement" of who offers the best product.
Such is the nature of internet research, it doesnt matter what the service or product is, or how large or small a company maybe, there will always be the ability to Google your chosen topic and find out what the masses think.
This comes back to the good old fashioned word of mouth recomendation, if your mate had his car fixed at a crap garage he will let his friends know, its just the internet allows this word of mouth to spread around the world. It can be harsh to some companies, but they do have the ability to act on customer feedback or they won't survive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mark handford wrote: |
This type of situation is not new to forums across the internet.
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True
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Naming and shaming is something that all TO will have to accept, such is the nature of the internet.
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It is however difficult for TO to keep track of any allegations, whether they are true or not and I personally feel that forum admins would be right in contacting TO to let them know the situation so that they may reply.
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That's true but similarly, it's not possible for me to keep track of the details of every conversation as it develops - we get literally thousands of posts each day. Also, as an open forum, I can not be expected to take responsibility for letting people who don't follow snowHeads know when something might be of interest to them.
Where would it end? Dear potential future user, you may like to know that someone has just posted a joke on snowHeads that you might possibly find funny/distasteful: link
Seriously though, if I have had previous dealings with a company that comes in for criticism here, I will tend to give them a prod to come in and address it. But otherwise, it's up to the company itself to monitor the state of their public image and address any problems with it.
Nevertheless if, as in this case, I am approached for advice, I will do my best to help stear events toward the most positive and balanced solution for all.
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On the plus side, freedom of speech, so long as its is accurate and not slanderous, is good for all as it enables everyone to make a "more informed judgement" of who offers the best product.
Such is the nature of internet research, it doesnt matter what the service or product is, or how large or small a company maybe, there will always be the ability to Google your chosen topic and find out what the masses think.
This comes back to the good old fashioned word of mouth recomendation, if your mate had his car fixed at a crap garage he will let his friends know, its just the internet allows this word of mouth to spread around the world. It can be harsh to some companies, but they do have the ability to act on customer feedback or they won't survive. |
I agree with all this: let's face it, if your business is getting 'slagged off down the pub', you probably wont ever know it - at least when it's done here, you get to hear about it and, if you've got the sense, address it head-on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fair play. On the other side, we should also use forums like this to praise good companies/service ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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kendadj,
You are 100% right but dissatisfied customers are always more vocal than happy ones..This is universal and will never change..so companies have to live with that...
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Isn't there a ratio that a dissatisifed person tells 10 others but you only tell 1 other person when it is positive ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boredsurfing, Agreed, which is why you should always read reviews on internet sites with a whole bag of salt.
I booked an apartment with the following review once (from a group of twelve):
"Staff were unfriendly and seemed to have a problem with English people. We turned up at 12:00 and our room wasn't ready for 4 hours. Then our luggage was stolen from the baggage room whilst we were out skiing meaning all our money, passports, and electronic equipment had gone." (It went on a bit but that was the gist.)
I read between the lines as:
"We turned up in a group of twelve, speaking English and demanding our rooms at midday (when it quite clearly says on their website that check-in is at 17:00). We got a bit bolshy when we found out that our rooms weren't ready and the staff didn't like that. We then dumped all our luggage in the baggage room (unlocked) and went off skiing for a few hours (having loudly made that clear to anyone who was in the vicinity) and then were a bit shocked that someone had nicked all our valuables. So we blamed it on the hotel."
The apartments were great, staff very friendly, spoke English fine, didn't seem to have a problem with us, room wasn't ready when we got there but they did get it ready for 14:00 instead of 17:00 which was very nice of them. Offered to keep valuables behind the desk and gave us use of a baggage room and shower if we wanted. We complained about the cleanliness of our room when we got there so they told us not to bother cleaning it when we left and they'd waive the cleaning charge.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think the posting history of a reviewer is very telling. Without wishing to doubt any of the reviews of newbies on the previous page, if someone has been posting here a while and then posts a review, I'd trust what they say. A newbie making their first post I'd take with a pinch of salt. But I think trends can be seen. Just as on the whole people are very complimentary of the Tignes boot camp set-up with Mountain Sun, so too with AE, there seems to be a general trend of dissatisfaction. I think AE could do themeselves a great favour by responding specifically to complaints made.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If AE have a problem with the amount of negative posting then they can come on here and address it. We have had an abortive attempt so far so lets hope that a revised posting will issue forth shortly. More importantly AE could attempt to deal with the complaints directly and take corrective action in their resorts to ensure that problems are not repeated.
I wouldn't expect admin to have to deal with every TO about whom we have a gripe equally I wouldn't expect him to contact TOs when we have something good to say about them. It's just not feasible. However, an organisation would be failing in its market research if it didn't keep up with what it's client base was thinking by having a trawl through sites such as this one.
Perhaps I was thoughtless in not posting a review of my trip earlier (cathy, I hope you're not implying that I'm a "newbie" (what a derogatory expression i must ensure that I never use it in the future) and that you don't trust my report  ) but I've now tried to redress that oversight.
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| olster wrote: |
which is why you should always read reviews on internet sites with a whole bag of salt.
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Very true. It is only worth taking bad reviews into account if there a few of them, not all posted within a few days of each other and written by various people.
Even then, as everyone is different and as some people like to whinge, you have to look for patterns to spot the real issues..Like "tiny rooms" and "innaccurate description" in this thread...
And along with what Boredsurfing says, if all the reviews are 2/3 years old then it's likely they are irrelevant..
Praises/good reviews unfortunately tend to only show up when someone asks for recommendations or for opinions on a specific brand/service..
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You know it makes sense.
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I seem to recall that one of the reasons that the ski club website stopped their public forum was because of fear of litigation if companies were criticised ? Websites like Snowheads need to tread carefully - hence the commendable approach taken on this matter.
It is a fact of life that people will take the time to be negative rather than positive. Very few people would ring up a holiday company on return and praise their services yet many of us would not hesitate to complain. You have to balance the feedback but in this case it would seem the pendulum has swung negative.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's a very sad fact IME, that companies and suppliers DO only get to hear about something if there was a problem. Very few people take the minute or two that would be needed, to drop a 'thanks, we had a great time' message, but many more people can justify HOURS spent on a complaint. Many complaints are valid, but not all, and if you care about what you do, they are ALWAYS disheartening, regardless of the veracity. It's ALWAYS lovely to get a message from a happy customer, and I always go back to thank them, for thanking me!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Since we're talking about a balanced view....
I stayed with Alpine Elements in Les Gets at New Year 2007/08. While the hotel was a bit tatty - they do need to work on their decor a little! - in fairness to them it was advertised as such. The one thing that stood out for me (good or bad) was the in-hotel staff, who were fantastic. Very friendly and helpful, and the manager (Scott, I think his name was) was extremely accomodating and professional sorting out various little issues. Yes, it wasn't the lap of luxury, but we hadn't paid for that, and the staff and the atmosphere they created in the chalet meant we had a fantastic holiday overall.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
It's a very sad fact IME, that companies and suppliers DO only get to hear about something if there was a problem. Very few people take the minute or two that would be needed, to drop a 'thanks, we had a great time' message, but many more people can justify HOURS spent on a complaint.
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Another arguement could be that you have paid a lot of money for your holiday and the company have gladly taken it off you. You should expect a good time, good facilitites as described in the brochure and generaly a good experience. It's their job after all. I don't necessarily expect to get thanks for dooing my job properly but I do expect to get criticised if I don't live up to the clients expectations or if I fail to deliver what I've said I would.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| halfhand wrote: |
| Quote: |
It's a very sad fact IME, that companies and suppliers DO only get to hear about something if there was a problem. Very few people take the minute or two that would be needed, to drop a 'thanks, we had a great time' message, but many more people can justify HOURS spent on a complaint.
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Another arguement could be that you have paid a lot of money for your holiday and the company have gladly taken it off you. You should expect a good time, good facilitites as described in the brochure and generaly a good experience. It's their job after all. I don't necessarily expect to get thanks for dooing my job properly but I do expect to get criticised if I don't live up to the clients expectations or if I fail to deliver what I've said I would. |
I agree, and as I said, some complaints are completely justified, the companies concerned should learn from the mistakes and do their utmost to ensure that they don't happen again. If a problem is identified it should be addressed, and if found to be valid, some recompense made. However, if a job has been done well and a company, supplier or individual has gone out of their way to ensure that the customer had the best possible service and product, a simple 'thank you' is always welcome. You may not necessarily expect thanks for doing your job properly, but can you say it would be unwelcome? It's a sad world if the only contact is negative 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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From James Hardiman
CEO - AlpineElements Group Ltd
Dear All,
Sorry I removed my original post and re-edited it to include a few tweaks. Here it is again.
I am noticing that AE is getting a mixed response from the forum, and it is nice to see a balanced view. I also notice a particularly poor view above pointing toward one of our Belvedere chalets in Tignes which alarms me because these are standard chalets, built 2 years ago, and used by many other Tour Operators. Of course it also bothers me that the food was “dire” and the Sauna/Jacuzzi “often not working”.
Even with the best of intent, not everything can go perfectly to plan and I will be first to admit we make mistakes. However we are a medium sized independent company, quick to react in resort, and free to make seasonal changes to our programme in response to customer feedback. We care a great deal about our loyal client base upon whom we rely for repeat business.
We've realised that some guests have had problems with escalating resort-based issues to their chalet staff, and although reps and managers are always present in resort – we have now introduced both French and UK emergency numbers and a customer service email (on the site) to make it easier for you to contact us. These numbers will be public in all chalets and we will pull out all stops to find an immediate solution or within 12 hours max.
For your interest, we have an FAQ page on our website, which I hope will answer any questions.
Feedback helps us to improve and mature the product for our guests and thankfully we get a lot of valuable views from the 11,000 clients we take to the Alps each year. This clearly helps us to make popular tweaks and changes to the programme each season. So please use our feedback link below and please let us know how you feel!
You are all very welcome to call us direct on 08700 111360 or email us from the site and I will have a direct input on any responses.
I would like to add that I didn’t enter the Tour Operating Industry for commercial reasons - I can think of far easier ways to make money! My drive in starting Alpine Elements was to put a little something personal back into the industry where the big TO’s fall short. Of course my love of skiing and snowboarding is a major bonus for me, but I know how hard it can be to find a trusted TO and all I want is to create a loyal client base for our value-priced holidays in enough destinations so that people will choose us as their trusted provider every year.
Have fun on the snow this year and here’s to a great 2009 season. Bring on the snow!
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 16-12-08 14:12; edited 3 times in total
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A very dignified post bellhouse.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I for one would book with them if that is the response of the MD -A very well crafted and heart warming response
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm impressed that bellhouse has responded here, and in such a restrained way. Well done sir.
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Yep, I've never heard a good word about the Elements. Certainly got the reputation as the worst TO in Morzine. Can't say I've met anyone who's stayed with them elsewhere, but if you're a laughing stock in one town, it can't be a good sign.
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You know it makes sense.
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Has another uncomplimentary post been removed?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yep, i spotted that too! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Edited
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 20-11-08 11:48; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Never experienced them in winter, but been with them over summer in morzine. Terrible! Our games room was in a different chatel, about 20 min walk away, my mate was meant to hire a bike from them, they didnt have any and then we had to find one by ourselves, the rep was gone after 10 minutes of out arrival so when we were confused we had to wait till the evening to speak to him again, by that time it was to late and everything had to be dealt with the next morning when we should have started riding!
Its there customer service that is crap! Which lets the whole system down imo.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Colin B wrote: |
| Has another uncomplimentary post been removed? |
Do you really think that if we made a habit of removing posts because they were uncomplimentary, that this topic would even be here?
I've taken a lot of grief over the past few years precisely because we don't do what you're inferring.
And, even though it may make us unpopular at times with certain characters within the industry, in the end, I think our approach earns snowHeads respect from those who matter most: the discerning public and the conscientious business.
It's perfectly clear that Alpine Elements did not exactly get it right last year. IMO they have done the right thing at this stage, to confront these criticisms head-on. I hope very much that they have paid more than lip-service to the specific complaints we've seen and if they have 'matured their product' as they say, then they should be able to look forward to a happy, healthy future as a company. If not... well the snowHeads will still be around to offer advice regarding alternative operators
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I use forums to promote my mountain biking events, they are a great way of getting your message out and gettiing great feedback. Many companies now employ people to look through the forums to make sure that they can respond to any positive or negative comments about their products/services. This is the age we live in and using this type of marketing is very useful. it does have its pitfalls but generally good moderation from forum admins allows them to flourish and everyone to gain from the opinions expressed. AE should be on here regularly monitoring and answering questions. On some forums the amount of trade users is greater than the amount of joe public! most people in the bike trade see them as a neccessary evil, some see them more positively than that.
BTW there is always a good thread on mountain biking forums about peeps experiences at AE hotels. I very rarely have seen a response by AE on the threads.. this puzzles me
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ice_pie wrote: |
| Yep, I've never heard a good word about the Elements. Certainly got the reputation as the worst TO in Morzine. Can't say I've met anyone who's stayed with them elsewhere, but if you're a laughing stock in one town, it can't be a good sign. |
The posts at the top of this topic and indeed these recent ones by jonibegood or nick-21 appear to be perfectly valid criticisms based upon personal experience. This though, is simply gossiping.
You know what I've heard? That 'snowHeads' is responsible for promoting buying cheap skis from Germany. I also heard that it was 'the Editor of the site' who was behind it: I really did hear it - doesn't mean it's not complete crap though.
One of snowHeads' major strengths has become it's ability to give skiers a voice that can be heard when they have a valid complaint. Gossiping and rumour-mongering puts all that at risk because one day someone might just say something that tips over into the libelous. Then, as the eskimos say*, "the snow shall be brown".
*I don't actually know anything much about eskimos and they probably don't really say that but it sounded sort of appropriate.
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admin,
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Do you really think that if we made a habit of removing posts because they were uncomplimentary, that this topic would even be here
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No not at all, not great wording on my post (poor really as it was only 6 words  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
When we arrived we were told that there were 8 beds available and they weren't all single as the hotel didn't have that many single beds
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But on their website, the floorplans for the hotel shows a number of rooms with single beds.....
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| admin wrote: |
| ice_pie wrote: |
| Yep, I've never heard a good word about the Elements. Certainly got the reputation as the worst TO in Morzine. Can't say I've met anyone who's stayed with them elsewhere, but if you're a laughing stock in one town, it can't be a good sign. |
The posts at the top of this topic and indeed these recent ones by jonibegood or nick-21 appear to be perfectly valid criticisms based upon personal experience. This though, is simply gossiping.
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I quite agree. My appologies! But my negligence to provide examples was due more to my being spoilt for choice for examples of AE's treatment of guests than a desire to muck-spread. On more than one occasion I'd have AE guests in the bar asking if I knew of cheap last-minute accomodation after discovering the chalets they had been put in were waaaaay below standard. Then there was the occasion a couple of years ago where their staff almost mutineed (sp?) and paraded round town with an AE banner which they proceeded to hang from the old bridge in town, with various anti-AE slogans scrawled across it. Couldn't tell you why, but someone said something about no smoke without fire. Maybe the staff were a bad bunch, but that it happened to Elements speaks volumes to me... Then there was the 8 months that it took for them to return a chalet damage deposit to a colleague! Aaaanyway. They just seem to attract a lot of bad feeling in a way that I've never seen aimed at any other TOs.
Rhubarbrhubarbrhubarb.
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FAQ
I thought it was a commonly used word. Should I have used instead 'a newly-registered person on this forum who has not yet made any posts'? How does that imply you're a newbie, with over 2,000 posts to your name?
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as the only people who can be bothered to write a review tend to have something strong to say.
