 Poster: A snowHead
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I am thinking of going to Engelberg in March with a group of very good off-piste skiers. We are all capable of skiing a 45º slope and any sort of snow, including breakable crust.
I have never been there but someone said it would be a good resort for us - challenging and extensive off-piste but not too crowded with other skiers. Any opinions?
And most important once there: does anyone have a recommendation for an exciting guide - someone who will stretch us a bit and keep us going all day. Doesn't have to be a local as long as he really knows the place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Went solo May 12-15th 2006 and skied knee deep pow.
Routes were obvious at that time of the year.
GO
That is all
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks, Mike Pow, I shall - but I had read that a guide was essential (partly for safety, as at La Grave). In my experience there are often steep slopes which I do not know if are safe and a guide does know. A guide we use at St Anton is regularly the first onto new slopes as they become safe and other guides follow - that is partly what we pay for.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I did not use a guide in La Grave the previous spring either. But then arguably I didn't ski the best that La Grave had to offer.
It's a personal decision.
After many seasons skiing resort and backcountry, I'm prepared to make those decisions for myself.
When I've skied with a group I've used a guide.
A good guide will make an objective assessment of the conditions at that moment. They're not a 'ski with impunity' or 'get out of jail card' though.
Back on track, I definitely recommend Engelberg.
I flew into Zurich and caught the train from the airport to Engelberg, having to change just once. Round trip train fare was SF 74.
The train journey was spectacular.
On arrival in Engelberg I walked across the street and checked into the Hotel Bellvue. SF 42 per night B&B. Private room, shared bathroom. Buffet breakfast, all you can eat.
Prix Fix at the Hotel Europe just around the corner was SF 28 for 3 courses.
Paid SF 52 for a day ticket, and SF 17 for two big beers and samosas on the terrace for lunch.
Skiing was top notch. Knee deep powder and sunshine in mid-May with approx 1000m of vert.
Hiked to the summit of Titlis. Obvious path. 40-minute hike. Amazing views.
If you can go later then I would recommend it. Past 3 seasons best conditions have been mid-April to mid-May.
Would definitely go back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks Mike Pow: all very useful.
Well obviously guides are not infallible: I have been carried 300 yards by an avalanche when with a well known guide. And another time on an SCGB holiday (doing the big descent off the back of La Grave to St Christoph) our guide was avalanched near the top and we had to climb back out - a small wind-pack avalanche - but, unlike the first, that one was bad judgement I thought, and I wouldn't now employ him myself.
However I know that my judgement is much less good than theirs. And I don't like going on glaciers without a guide which is often necessary to reach some of the skiing. (eg at La Grave - at least one of the fabulous long couloirs which end up at the road, further down the valley. And the one I have in mind also has a point that is rather dangerous without a rope - and I don't carry a rope or harness.)
But I take your point. Our usual practice is to ski a couple of days finding places on our own and then join a guide for 5 or 6 days.
Also a guide can usually find powder when everyone thinks it is all gone. For example we traversed and then climbed for about half an hour from the top of a small resort (2 weeks after the last snow) and found a big valley with only 4 tracks in it - everything you can see here, plus more to the left where the other tracks were, and a big north facing bowl we are heading for to the right of the big rock).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Laub and the Joch pass area are pretty obvious for self navigation. The Steinberg has some nasty glacial ice and big crevasses but you can also scope it a few times first directly under the Rotair and the main routes are well tracked. Heard a lot about the Galtiberg but never quite been able to figure out how difficult it is - definitely worth a guide first time I'd think.
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Agreed snowball.
Agreed fatbob.
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galtiberg isn't that difficult but it's a long and quite complex run. a guide or a local would be a good idea. i'm coming to the conclusion that engelberg is awesome on a powder day, but not so much a couple of weeks after the last storm. i think last winter was exceptional (at least early on) but after 3 days or so we did run out of things to do. i'd make sure you have transport so you can pop over to places like andermatt if engelberg isn't offering the goods
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arno, sounds like a good idea. A guide might solve that too.
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Andermatt is about 60-90 mins away. We usually spend 3-4 days in each.
And Arno is right about the good snow aspect. A great place if you can wait for the storm, otherwise, have plan B and move on.
Galtiburg and the Laub need good snow and I have only seen the former skiable once in 5-6 viists....!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Looking at Historic Snow on SCGB it looks as though the middle of March might be the best time to go, at least as far as high snow is concerned. Resort level snow is getting chancy by then but I imagine they must have a bit of snow-making?
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snowball,
The only run down to resort (@ 1400mtrs) is the 4 o'clock run which starts at about 1850 or so and the bottom of the Laub is around that height as well. If the snow is dissappearing at that time then expect a walk out from Galtiberg. I think March offers the best chance of the best conditions in the alpes now anyway
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks JT,
By the way, is Zurich the best airport?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Calling the Engelberg experts! For reasons I won't go into, I may be restricted to just one pre-xmas long weekend next season. Let's assume I want to pre-book and not leave til last minute. I was considering glacier resorts. Has anyone been to Engelberg in mid-December? Obviously no-one can predict the snow, but is it "usually" okay, or should I look elsewhere? Whadya reckon?
I ski probably two-thirds on piste; one-third easy-moderate off-piste. I'll leave the 45 deg breakable crust to snowball! Thanks in advance. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Call me Jack Spratt, the ice perv, but I hate ice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the ice perv,
I dont specifically know about Engleberg but I can sound a bit of a scratched record on this one. If you are going that early why not wait and see if there is good snow, there may be poor snow in Engleberg but great snow somewhere else or vica versa. If you have to bbok flights though I reckon you can do a lot worse than Zurich early season as there are a lot of places to ski from there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowball,
Zurich is 2 hrs and you can get onto the train straight to Lucerne and then a change to the smaller tracked railway up to Engelberg. You may have to change at Zurich central if the timetable isn't kind but the swiss run their trains to dovetail with connections, so a quick change over of platforms and a max 20 min wait should be the order of the day.
Basel is also a good option and only suffers by having to catch a bus into the town (20 mins ride) but once you have done that, it is onto Lucern and they same small track up. This bus a a max of 5 chf but a taxi can be 40 or so...!!!!
The Bellevue is right over the road from the Engelberg Banhof but I haven't stayed there myself. Its an easy 10min walk to the main lift up
the ice perv, I haven't been that early but it is not an easy glacier.... it can be pretty steep at the top and snow cover is essential as there are the usual crevasses and an ice wall to navigate. If this is sparse, you will likely need a rope. I have only crossed this in about 3 places and without snow this is a major obstacle. You can get onto the bottom half from Jochstok and with reasonable route finding skills you'll have fun but don't think it is as gentle or prepared as L2A or Tignes, for example, it certainly isn't. They will likely not open the Titlis lift if the glacier isn't in good nick as that is the only way to keep people off it.
The big thing about this resort is that the glacier is lift served but wild so you should have some kind of idea about this terrian or book a guide. In good snow this resort is a blast, in poor snow, you will struggle to find stuff to do after a few days unless you are pretty adventurous
If it were me, I would just book the flights and then pick the resort nearer the time after getting upto date snow reports.
But Galtiberg, if doable, would get me back there like a shot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"The Bellevue is right over the road from the Engelberg Banhof but I haven't stayed there myself. Its an easy 10min walk to the main lift up "
I have, see earlier in the thread 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Bellevue is the hotel where all the Swedish ski bums stay. If you have an idea of Chamonix, think the Gustavia Hotel. I stay there when I go, but beware, it might not be quiet. It's a bit more thank 10 mins walk to the lift also. But the ski bus leaves from right outside the station and will drop you back again.
Sometimes if you go in the depths of winter you will have to get a bus up the last 10kms or so, and that can take quite a while.
Engelberg is not the best place to go early season. If you are thinking about going someplace early season, keep your money in your pocket and see what's happening 1 week before you want to go. You will not save all that much by buying early, but you might miss out on a great storm someplace else for the sake of 30 quid. I would recommend Flims Laxx if you only do a little bit of off-piste - I think it's there anyways. One of them around there have a glacier and the skiing is not as big or difficult as Engelberg.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ear plugs are definitely a good idea if you stay in the Bellevue
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Also those Bellvue prices are for low season and without a bathroom.
We will be staying at the Cathrin - only a bit more expensive (especially with their offer of cheap lift-pass) but right near the Titlis lift.
Thanks everyone - We will be going via Zurich and staying March 14 -22. Two days skiing on our own and 6 with a guide, Mon - Sat, then a night in Zurich and a morning flight home.
I got some names of guides from a friend and John Haddon from SCGB.
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snowball,
Andre at the Cathrin is a helful host, they will organise your lift pass electronically and have it at the desk 1st thing in the morning. It is the nearest hotel to the main lift and the Stockli test centre is just 2 mins away....which IMV is the best place to hire skis..excellent service and staff.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks JT, I'll tell anyone who goes out without skis about the Stockli test centre.
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snowball, Local guides: Bini Amstutz [kuekbini@bluewin.ch] - I skied with him a while back in Andermatt, but Engelberg is his home; I skied the classic Engelberg stuff including the Galtiberg with another local, Markus, known as 'Mege' [megech@gmx.ch], along with the group from www.snowride.net [Engelberg specialists]. Both of those email addresses are a year or two old, but they probably still work OK.
My write-up of the routes I did is here: http://www.ultimate-ski.com/uk/Ski_Resorts/Switzerland/Engelberg/Off-piste/index.html
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FoulNative, I've printed out your write-up of routes to take with me. I'll probably buy a 1:25,000 map when I get there.
However I booked my guide this afternoon: Fredi Krummenacher. (I found this website of Engelberg guides.)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just to resurrect this thread, how did you go with your guide snowball? Would you recommend him and can you remember the cost? Last year I got a quote of £283 for a guide for a day from outventure.ch, with a max size group of 9.
regards,
Greg
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You know it makes sense.
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Ooooooo Engelberg... I'll miss it this year....probably..!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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great pics waynos, that first one looks like they are clearing snow not skiing it!!
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