 Poster: A snowHead
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A number of environmental groups in India are planning a day-long protest against plans to build a major ski resort in the Himalayas.
The proposed resort, to be developed at Kothi near Manali by Alfred B Ford (grandson of the car pioneer), is intended to attract high-spending international trade based on ambitious ski infrastructure and luxury accommodation. The plans have, to date, been cleared by the local state government.
This report from Zee News.
Should this resort go ahead? Any other comments on this?
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Previous snowHeads news threads on the 'Ford ski resort':
Dec 2004
Jan 2005
May 2005
August 2005
October 2005
May 2006
May 2007
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes, they should go ahead.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I hope the locals have a say - particularly if drinking water purity really is at risk.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. I'd anticipate global interest in the story. The international media don't seem to have caught on to it yet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I'd anticipate global interest in the story. |
I'd be a bit surprised if this became a global news story.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yawn - but I don't see why the local economy should be denied a chance to generate some high end tourism/employment because of some smug liberal agenda.
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I bet that Heliskiing in the Himalayas would be awesome. You could probably afford to more of it as well because of the good exchange rate.
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Kramer, you are a very naughty boy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Probably using helos condemed and sold on by Turgikistan
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It will be the Ford Edsel of global ski resorts 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, I would definitely go skiing in the Himalayas if there was no risk of warfare or terrorism, I could get decent grub and the place was not plagued by beggars.
I have heard there is plenty of great skiing to be had from people who skied that part of the world. Much of it involved walking up the slope - though bearers will carry your skis for a very small fee.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As the world melts, resorts will go higher. One of the best places to do this is the Himalayas. More developments are, therefore, inevitable. The winners will be skiers and workers. The losers will be wildlife.
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You know it makes sense.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| smug liberal agenda. |
I know exactly what you mean (and agree) - but really it's an illiberal agenda, in that it's seeking to restrain the behaviour of others.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I wouldn't call that illiberal. We're dealing with issues which go way beyond fussing and complaining about restrictions to their freedom ... to f**k up the planet.
Here's a classic, just posted by Helsingin Sanomat:
Largest Finnish skiing centres to invest EUR 500 million in facilities
On the surface this sounds hugely exciting. Then you realise that what it means is that the battle of skiers to search out the receding snowlines of the upper altitudes and northern latitudes is going to involve longer flights, more pollution, and more intrusion into environmentally sensitive parts of mountains.
There has to an international plan to stop skiing causing yet more damage: call it an illiberal agenda, if you will. Or call it an ethical commitment to future generations. Finland's making massive amounts of money out of mobile phones and their economy does not need this. This news is unwelcome.
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Poster: A snowHead
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David Goldsmith, you think you know exactly what Finns and Indians ought not to be doing and would compel them to fall in line with you. That is illiberal (and conceited).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You know that's rubbish.
The whole point of this is that the global atmosphere is a matter of international action and politics. That's why I've not criticised either the Indian or Finnish peoples/governments.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith since you obviously hate the skiing industry so much...why don't you just shove off and leave the rest of us who love it to our fun.
You are not going to change our minds, or behaviour, and visa versa.
On yer bike mate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sod off
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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or Sod off piste. Your choice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rungsp wrote: |
| David Goldsmith since you obviously hate the skiing industry so much......... |
I'm inclined to agree. It seems to be where every prospect displeaseth, and only David''s not vile. 
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Actually I love the skiing industry and all who sail in her. I spent about 10 years writing about ski technology and innovation, and got to know and like lots of people involved in the skiing industry.
I don't rate its attitude to the earth, wind, water and fire ... from which it extracts its revenues ... that's all.
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David Goldsmith, You can see that a green agenda that seeks to limit air travel and the opening up of new ski areas might not be popular with other skiers though.
It is clearly restrictive. I am not sure how those restrictions would operate, but price and inconvenience would be two unpopular consequences.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dale Goldsmith wrote: |
| It is clearly restrictive. I am not sure how those restrictions would operate, but price and inconvenience would be two unpopular consequences. |
They might be unpopular, but would they be bad for an industry which has become bloated, overcrowded and profit-driven?
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Wear The Fox Hat, are you criticising the industry for being profit- driven? An industry that is not goes bankrupt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| achilles wrote: |
| An industry that is not [profit-driven] goes bankrupt. |
What?
I think an Economics O level [sorry GCSE] is called for.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, no, not criticising it, after all, we are consumers who use the industry. I'm saying that perhaps the industry would be better if it was more efficient, and perhaps more interested in the impact it has.
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David Goldsmith, you voice some interesting ideas here, but I think you lose support when you express your opinions as the definitive single truth. And whether you still ski is relevant here as we would take the comments of an MP on State Schools whose children were educated privately with a degree of scepticism.
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| An industry that is not [profit-driven] goes bankrupt. |
What?
I think an Economics O level [sorry GCSE] is called for. |
I have never seen any indication that you understand the running of successful business.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, you voice some interesting ideas here, but I think you lose support when you express your opinions as the definitive single truth. ....... |
Can he whose life is lighted, with wisdom from on high,
Can he, from us benighted, the light of truth deny? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| achilles wrote: |
I have never seen any indication that you understand the running of successful business. |
That's a rather different point. The issue you've raised is of critical importance: Can the world's businesses operate on a basis which isn't profit-driven to the point that their exploitation, pollution, congestion wreck the planet?
I work for an enterprise which is non-profit driven and caters for 15,000 (and sometimes more) paying customers per week. It yields benefits to thousands of young musicians and artists each year.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 12-06-07 9:50; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| Dale Goldsmith wrote: |
| It is clearly restrictive. I am not sure how those restrictions would operate, but price and inconvenience would be two unpopular consequences. |
They might be unpopular, but would they be bad for an industry which has become bloated, overcrowded and profit-driven? |
Possibly not.
If I was a rich man, with a brand new Alfa, living in a country with good skiing, I may not be as bothered as many others. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dale Goldsmith, exactly! (but I'm not rich)
Well, I hate to come over all David Goldsmith, but what would Sir Henry Simpson Lunn say? Do you think the current status quo is what he envisaged?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ........I work for an enterprise which is non7-profit driven and caters for 15,000 (and sometimes more) paying customers per week. It yields benefits to thousands of young musicians and artists each year. |
Work as in wages paid, tax and NI going to the government? Is the enterprise profitable without subsidy? If not, your example is irrelevant to how the rest of us should live. We need to fill our fridges, have services through our taxes, and have sufficient over to go skiing.
ARRGH! I have just spilt coffee over my keyboard number pad!! BFN
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| ... what would Sir Henry Simpson Lunn say? Do you think the current status quo is what he envisaged? |
You mean people from the working classes being able to go skiing? Not quite sure that he had that in mind, although it would be nice for me to think that it was a part of his vision when he helped pioneer recreational skiing
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| achilles wrote: |
Work as in wages paid, tax and NI going to the government? Is the enterprise profitable without subsidy? If not, your example is irrelevant to how the rest of us should live. We need to fill our fridges, have services through our taxes, and have sufficient over to go skiing.
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achilles, with no disrespect I think you need to broaden your vision as to what makes the world go round.
Yes, the enterprise (The Roundhouse) pays wages to its key staff (at a guess 20 people for the Main Space (performance auditorium), plus another 10 or so for the Studios which train young people) and it engages about 250 people like me who work as unpaid volunteers. It's a charitable trust so, to answer your question, it sources finance from a variety of sponsorship, lottery, non-governmental sources etc.
Some ski enterprises are non-profit. You're familiar with the New Zealand club ski fields, presumably.
Skiing is a monstrous industry right now. It needs some heavy checks and balances, which lie beyond capitalism. It seems that capitalism does not automatically balance its effects.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 12-06-07 10:13; edited 2 times in total
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Sod off |
Well that is just about the most gratuitously rude thing I have ever seen posted on SnowHeads.
The brevity and dismissivness it what makes it so.
Go and hug that tree David...I'll go borow a bulldozer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hm testing. /*-7894561230.
All seems to be in order.
David Goldsmith, So you work is unpaid, and the Roundhouse cannot pay its own way. I am sure the Roundhouse is an excellent institution. There most certainly is a place for such organizations in society. Trouble is society relies on businesses making a profit to survive, and pay for (in survival terms) frills such as The Roundhouse. More than that, The Roundhouse relies on its volunteers having an income from other sources. In short, society needs capitalism - granted with some regulation. I don't think society would accept skiing as being a financial burden on it.
| Wear the Fox Hat wrote: |
| achilles, no, not criticising it, after all, we are consumers who use the industry. I'm saying that perhaps the industry would be better if it was more efficient, and perhaps more interested in the impact it has. |
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I have no idea of the ski industry's efficiency - or how measurable its is. As for its impact, I think that should be up to the people in the areas concerned to control. I noted elsewhere French villagers contended impact on their water supply, for example.
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| achilles wrote: |
| ... and the Roundhouse cannot pay its own way. |
I'm sure you didn't mean to say that!
It pays every bill it is obliged to pay, as far as I'm aware.
[plug] We have a fantastic 6-week season of international circus coming up. Not circus as it's generally stereotyped, but radical circus:
Circus Front, at the Roundhouse, 21 June to 5 August [/plug]
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FAQ
