 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just been looking at the 'post some stoke' pictures and was struck by a thought - then I couldn't work out where to post it. I thought if I posted on the boarding thread I'd be liable to get told to get lost so ended up here on the Piste.
Skiers on two planks use two ski poles, skiers on monoskis (from what I've seen of their use) use two ski poles, boarders don't use any ski poles - I was wondering why? From what I've seen of boarders and the way they use their edges I can't see why what they do and how they do it would necessarily preclude the use of ski poles - why aren't they used. I will say now that I've never boarded so I could easily be missing something vital here. I can see that the angle of the feet on the board is fixed in one direction, but the upper body can swivel so I would think poles could be deployed on either side of the board.
Many apologies if most of you think this is another witless observation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I thought if I posted on the boarding thread I'd be liable to get told to get lost so ended up here on the Piste.
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Megamum, you're sooo.. right! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Blade, I thought so........However, the more I think about it the more I feel that if I ever tried boarding it would feel safer/easier with ski poles. At least it would give boarders some way of manouvering without taking off the board on flatter sections.
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The simple answer is that when boarding "properly" your arms are aligned tip & tail of the board rather than either side so they would actually imbalance what is regarded as good technique (not necessarily taught by all European ski schools).
Secondly have you ever tried poling on flats without a skating motion - you don't get far fast.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
the upper body can swivel
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But shouldn't. If you think about the mechanics of this for about three seconds it will become very obvious why poles are irrelevant to a boarder. (Unless used for hitching a tow from your skiing mates.)
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(Unless used for hitching a tow from your skiing mates.)
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yes, I sometimes tow my son on flatter sections, and have been known to give a tow to unknown forlorn looking boarders I pass on the piste back down to our apartments, which has a flat beginning section. My son used to "borrow" a pole in chairlift queues sometimes, when he was a beginner, but he doesn't bother now. A better question than asking why boarders DON'T use poles is asking why so many skiers, who patently do nothing even remotely useful with them, DO. I sometimes try to persuade beginners skiing with us to let me carry their poles for a bit, to stop them clutching them with all their might, held tight to the chest, like a security blanket. It's comical how naked people feel without them. Bladers do fine without them. Skiers don't really need them except for certain kinds of highly technical, advanced, turns which most of us can't do anyway. People say they help provide a rhythm - but good boarders and bladers seem to have plenty of rhythm without them (and who needs poles to dance?). As for shoving yourself along on the flat, skating is the answer, and good skiers can skate without poles. I recall seeing an ESF instructor skating uphill with both arms full of a huge pile of slalom markers. For the rest of us, it's good practice to do without them and use weight shifting and edges instead. Poles are a huge irrelevance most of the time, for most skiers (including me); just a habit, and a lazy one. They are one more thing to lose, one more source of clutter. Being without them is one of the good reasons for snowboarding especially for people like me with quite painful arthritic hands.
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pam w, without wishing to engender (again) the pole/nopole argument, poles are a great help at more technical levels - esp. bumps and steeps.
And they help with timing/turn initiation rather than rhythm, if I was to be pedantic. I guess it makes sense to introduce them early.
"Modern" skis make turn initiation easier and poles less essential in "easy" conditions - so if you find them literally painful you might be able to get away without them. You might find that hinders any technique development that you might be looking for tho...
I would also comment that I know quite a few skiers whose technique is held back by incorrect pole use.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
poles are a great help at more technical levels - esp. bumps and steeps.
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Yes, no problem with that. But for the vast majority of holiday skiers, who are never going to ski at anything like your level, they are an irrelevance. For people who are seem really worried by descending even the easiest piste without them (not steeps and bumps) getting rid of their poles for a week, or even a day, or even a coupla runs, would be a revelation. There's certainly no reason for wishing them on snowboarders and I think it's important for skiers at the beginning of their careers to realise that poles might make life easier in the lift queue, or leaning on to put skis on or off, but are not necessary for salvation.
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I know quite a few skiers whose technique is held back by incorrect pole use.
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Yes again, and I bet there are more skiers held back by incorrect pole use than there are making accurate use of them for advanced technical turns. Once that incorrect use is acquired at an early stage it's very difficult to shake (I should know, I spent a whole lesson with Dave Peek not quite getting it right!) and it's painful sitting at the top of a nursery slope watching people trying to use them as brakes. Kids learn without (if only to stop them poking each others eyes out).
This thread started by asking "why don't boarders use poles". Leaving aside the highly technical end of the ski spectrum, and focussing instead on the early stages, I still think a much better question is "why do all those people fanny around doing nothing useful, and quite a lot of positively unhelpful, things with those sticks?" Megamum, if you haven't tried them already, try a day on snowblades, with no sticks (and preferably with some good rhythmic music on your MP3 player). I promise you wouldn't turn into a yob overnight.
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Megamom -- It sounds like you are slowly coming round to my way of thinking and will soon ditch two planks for one tray 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, Completely agree. I have come from boarding through blades to skis and only recently got a pair of poles for Christmas. I was previously skiing on 150s quite happily without them.
In favour of poles is balance in lift queues and getting myself up if I tumble in the powder.
The negatives are a little bit less convenience on the lifts but overall I would always use them.
Would they be useful to a boarder? The positives for me as a skier would also apply to a boarder, particularly the getting up in powder where the slope is a bit too flat.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't see the point of poles full stop, maybe if skiers stopped using poles altogether then they wouldn't clog up the flat sections and stop boarders gunning through them.
Boarders don't need them because as you progress you learn the skippy walk thing, bouncing from tail to nose, using the boards flex to move along. I rarely take my board off.
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stab, ah yes, that dead efficient skippy walk thing that gets you uphill so fast?
pam w, sure, I agree, - I suspect that there is a default "you will need poles later and so start using them now" legacy (or even just a "we used them so you should too") one lurking in many cases. The nice thing these days is that there are so many ways to slide that they're not necessary for many peeps.
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
stab, ah yes, that dead efficient skippy walk thing that gets you uphill so fast?
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if you do it right then it's the same as walking, doesn't need any more effort and considerably less effort than the retards poling up hills without skating as well.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you can't use a pole, you can't do this..............
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, the answer to your question was given by fatbob. Everything else is a digression.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, You're right of course, but this lot like talking about poles. I must admit though that I don't think I've tried using much of skating action when moving on my skis. I can walk up the hill with lots of little parallel sideways steps, or by making a reverse snowplough and walking up. I can skate though - it hadn't occured to me to 'skate' on my skis - it certainly sounds as though its do-able - I shall have to try it I might be making things difficult for myself by not doing so.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The real reason for poles is so skiers can put them on thier heads in a comedy 'V' shape, for those classic photo opportunities. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They are the brakes aren't they? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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you need them to take off the skis too
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rayscoops, I just step on the backs of my bindings, which is much easier and quicker, but the poles can help to hold you up when you do it!
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JT, that would be very cool; if you were riding switch.
Or just levitating.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Try it the next time you're on snow, especially on the beginer slope.
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Yes, good point. But if I am skiing with beginners who fall on flattish slopes, I pull them up, and they can do the same for me if I fall. If I see someone struggling to get up I often stop and help them, actually, because I appreciate from first hand experience how hard it is. That's me, all heart. I wouldn't ski past someone who seemed to be beached, without any companions to help them. I do use poles (crossed) for getting up in powder, and it would be difficult without them. It's exhausting, even with them, I'm pretty useless in powder.
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try getting the skis off without the assitance of poles (just as if you had dropped them of the chair lift ), paricularly in a confine space
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why would you ever need to get your skis off in a confined space? How do you even get into a confined space wih skis on? I certainly have no problem getting them off without poles normally, it's the way I usually do it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| But if I am skiing with beginners who fall on flattish slopes, I pull them up, and they can do the same for me if I fall. If I see someone struggling to get up I often stop and help them, actually, because I appreciate from first hand experience how hard it is. That's me, all heart. I wouldn't ski past someone who seemed to be beached, without any companions to help them. |
But you wouldn't see too many boarders sprawling on the snow needing a pull up. That's why skiers, even beginers, need poles.
In fact, it's the intermediate skiers who often find poles useless distractions. Because they no longer need poles to get up, at least not on most slopes. Nor do they see the need of poles for actual skiing on groomers, either.
Of course, by the time they get into moguls and off-piste, poles become essential again, least of which as a make shift platform to push off from!
come to think of it, how do boarders get up from deep powder? Or do they not dare to fall?
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How I relate to these comments about getting beached!!  I get beached on my beginners slope even with poles - its the most embrassing thing about being a beginner. I know the theory of getting back up, but I'm hopeless at it, and no I'm afraid I'm not thin and skinny!
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, Same here. It is easy to stand up on a steep slope, but if it is flat i always pop a ski off to stand up. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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[quote="abc"]
| pam w wrote: |
come to think of it, how do boarders get up from deep powder? Or do they not dare to fall? |
With difficulty which is why its better to go steep & deep. Can involve unstrapping then belly flopping/crawling onto board, then strapping in if the terrain is too flat.
Still beats diggng for a lost ski/pole
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yep getting up on a board on a flat powder slope is harder than on skis. Least of all because you have much more chance of falling over again once you get there. You don't really want to unclip because of clearing all the snow of your boot before getting back in. Or is that not an issue with normal strap bindings?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, not, it wasn't me, but a good question all the same. I'll be sticking to the piste for a while.
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no I'm afraid I'm not thin and skinny!
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it's more about having some working muscles, than how thin you are. I have an extremely overweight niece who manages fine, because she's quite sporty and has good muscle tone, despite the blubber. One of the many reasons to get strong before the season!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is easy to stand up on a steep slope, but if it is flat i always pop a ski off to stand up
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It's not easy to pop the binding off without poles! Especially while you're sitting down on it...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| abc wrote: |
come to think of it, how do boarders get up from deep powder? Or do they not dare to fall? |
I will pass on one solid piece of advice.
Boarders who fall in powder should a: hang there heads in shame and b: using your fist keep punching a hole in the snow and pack it with snow so you can push yourself back up.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, busy chair lift que
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I usually have two sets of poles. My own and the ones my son THOUGHT he wanted when we started out. Now two sets really are useless. 
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
the upper body can swivel
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But shouldn't. If you think about the mechanics of this for about three seconds it will become very obvious why poles are irrelevant to a boarder. (Unless used for hitching a tow from your skiing mates.) |
Also useful for hitting boarders on the way past, that try and pass too close to you
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
come to think of it, how do boarders get up from deep powder? Or do they not dare to fall? |
As others have said option b. However, we've all done it at some point I was fortunately about 10m from a piste so swam for it, it was bloody knackering and took ages. If it's deep make sure it's steep.
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rayscoops, if you wanted to get out of your skis in a lift queue you could always borrow a pole, or ask someone else to bang your first binding down. Make new friends that way! Though I don't often find myself wanting to take my skis off in a busy chairlift queue. Come to think of it, I make a point of avoiding queues. Life's too short. We come home for the French school holidays. I do actually normally use poles, but several of the younger generation we ski with regularly do not, having been bladers in the past and not seeing the point. It's very useful when things need carrying - loaves of bread, bottles of champagne, my son's broken ski etc. My only point was, initially, that it is often far better for beginner and early intermediate skiers to go without poles. Unless they are skiing alone, which is probably not a great idea anyway, they don't need to worry about how to get up.
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FAQ
- this year I resorted to popping a ski off too - it was the quickest way of getting upright 