 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, I am only sampling from French, Italian, Swiss, US (east coast and in the middle), Canada and Scotland so maybe the Austrians, Bulgarians, etc. are worse, but after a week in Champoluc over Easter I am firmly of the opinion that the Italians are the worst when it comes to on-piste discipline.
I spent quite a lot of time skiing slowly with my very young neices, who are doing nicely thank you after a mere 4 weeks on snow, and it quite opened my eyes to how erratic the skiers around us were. Thankfully it wasn't terribly busy. But dearry me the Milanese were all over the place.
I had one particular moment where I nearly (EDIT: not very nearly, really quite a lot far away from nearly, in fact, it nearly wasn't an incident at all. In fact of fact, it wasn't actually any sort of incident) hit someone as I anticipated the rhythm of their skiing, went to avoid them (giving plenty of space) and they planted/crossed over/anticipated to turn left (as I expected) then they managed to swing wildly right. I have no idea how they accomplished it, but it was nearly (EDIT: to be completely honest, nowhere near) all ending in tears.
EDIT: I only mention it as I like to think I have a reasonably high situational awareness and try to be very sensitive to other's skiing. Ergo, my "nearly" would be someone elses "nothing happened".
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 22-04-07 13:26; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Before we upset the Italians we may need to establish the following
(a) Are all the culprits Italians? There are many international skiers visiting Aosta Valley too. I found more English speaking skiers in Cervinia than other nationals a couple of weeks ago. Admittedly Champoluc is not as popular as Cervinia which has a couple of links to the Swiss Zermatt but it is just next door to the Breuil Cervinia/Valtournenche Valley.
(b) Is it resort-specific? Don't find this phenomanon myself in Courmayeur, La Thuile and Cervinia which are all in the same Aosta region.
I have to agree that Scandinavian, Austrian, Swiss and the German skiers appear to be more disciplined overall. I can't single out the Italians are at the bottom of the league. I suspect if we ask the European skiers who is the worst we may very well ending up egg at our face, as many of us do not ski often enough to know or familar with the rules.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Murdoch, I think I will side with you on this one, as we have had rather a lot of Italians in Serre Che at weekends this winter.
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Hee hee - saikee, everyone skiing should be familiar with the rules...and I would suggest that the Brits are generally quite, well, predictable when they ski.
(a) - they were all wearing nasty fluorescent tight race pants, so not only were they all Italians, they were all Milanese. Maybe it's just the Milanese? Champoluc had several British school parties and I assure you it wasn't them being the problem. Although one overweight, moustachio-ed teacher really needs to learn something about motivating un-co-ordinated kids.
(b) I have seen it in Courmayeur - and Cervinia.
It's definitely the 'Tallies. No question in my mind...
(Before anyone suggests that I'm being naughty singling out one geographic population, She Who Must Be Obeyed is half-Italian and agrees with me. As did the instructor who was giving my neices private lessons. And as for what she thought of Italian children?)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DM,
I sympathise, I got taken out by a French woman in LP recently and I haven't a clue how she contrived to hit me..... I'd passed her and she still blamed me. She said I was going too fast when that is exactly the opposite of what I was doing, being totally aware of a mass of ants skiing all over the place. I was concentrating on nice tight turns on the very edge of the piste so they could have all the room....!!!!!!!!!!
Its curtailed my trips for sure as I took a bit blow to the shoulder. I hope your nieces weren't too fazed by it
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David Murdoch, my cousin is married to an Italian, and they have three sons. We had my parents Ruby wedding party in our garden,and they managed to destroy Julian's newly constructed waterfall in 10 minutes flat. !!! 
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David Murdoch, Skiing in Sestriere last week, came over a blind crest on a red run, found Italian ski instructor with his class of 10 english adults, stationary in a line across the middle of the piste. Had to stop to give him polite advice on the error of his ways, as I had a group skiing with me, some of which may not have been able to stop as quickly as I did. I received abuse in return, saying what did I know about it anyway. At which time I showed him my BASI badge. His English group moved out of harms way by themselves.
I personally think that it is the Russians, who leave all others standing.
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Spyderman,
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I personally think that it is the Russians, who leave all others standing.
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I agree. The Russians I have seen in the Alps recently have made me ashamed of my (100%) Russian blood. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've no proof or experience, but I have also heard folks complain about the Dutch  I don't know what the observations are based on though
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Megamum, they are definitley second on my list. I once had to share a ski class with a bunch of out-of-control Dutch skiers. They were all at different levels,and determined to ski together. Myself and a French girl in the same class complained, and they were made to hire a private instructor for the remainder of these lessons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, I totally agree with you about the Italians (I shouldn't be saying anything of this as my partner is Italian). Anyway, I was in La Thuile over Easter and a few things;
1. They seem to stand in a group just at the "off ramp" of the chairlift so that everybody bumps into them and 2) they do stand in the middle of the piste.
When I was in Selva at the end of February, there was a group of italians all standing at a very short space leaving very little room for people to manoevure through.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ray Zorro,
Sharp eyes
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Martin Nicholas,
Whichever way I look at it you certainly have got a lot of meat in your write-up.
May have a problem to prove it is Italian because salami somehow looks different to me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Toad in the jackson hole.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Albert De Savaloy strikes again?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nice to see xenophobia alive and well in snowHeads.
The first posting, by David, is essentially a very honest (but misguided) hand-wringing account of a near-miss. And the Italians are arguably the greatest contributors to culture and understanding of any European nation.
Yes, the skier below can be highly erratic, for any number of reasons. The skier above is always responsible for avoidance, unless the skier below took off from stationary without looking up and skied into the path of the descending skier.
We have an elderly Italian couple living near us. They ran a little hardware shop up the road until it got too much for them. A more charming, warm, friendly, vivacious and entertaining pair of people would be hard to find.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith, I don't think anyone is being xenophobic. Skiing is an international sport, and we were simply making a comment on our experiences this season. It was not a comment on the personality of the people involved, simply an observation of their on-piste behaviour. It is probably more a comment on their skiing habits which tend to be different to ours. They visit for the weekend or the day for example, so want to pack as much skiing as possible into that gap between breakfast and the long lunch!!
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Yes, aren't they strange people! And they grow spaghetti on trees!
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Helen Beaumont,
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It was not a comment on the personality of the people involved, simply an observation of their on-piste behaviour
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Indeed. I think we are all - well mostly - commenting on observed behaviour, rather than national characteristics. (For a start, I like to think that I am not ill-behaved just because I am of Russian origin!) I remember, as a child, comments being made about the Belgians' inability to drive: fair enough, they didn't have a driving test in Belgium until the 1960s or so! So it was an entirely justified criticism of a whole nation's habits. There are all kinds of reasons, and indeed some justification, for the poor manners of some Russians today, but I haven't the time to go into them just now.
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You xenophobic lot...
Isn't it down to education, skills and awareness of risk, and not nationality? You could argue that the Belgians before driving tests were introduced were unaware of risk and poorly skilled. The Italians, Portuguese and Greeks have a rather risk unaware driving style judging by accident rates, and this probably translates to the pistes.
The Russians are new to skiing in Europe so are probably less aware of the rules of the piste, and I have never driven in Russia but imagine that risk awarenss (politics excepted) might not be as good as in some other Norther European cultures?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hurtle, you dont own chelsea do you..?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Yes, the skier below can be highly erratic, for any number of reasons. The skier above is always responsible for avoidance, unless the skier below took off from stationary without looking up and skied into the path of the descending skier.
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..and yet this exact situation happens so many times with our continental (and no doubt UK) brethren that there might as well not be an FIS code of conduct.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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CANV CANVINGTON,
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you dont own chelsea do you
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Er, no 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martin Nicholas,
But you're making exactly the same generalisations about nationalities that everyone else is!
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Russians, Italians, Drunken English yobs?
Listen to yourselves! Let's bang all nationals together and generalise like crazy. Hey let's go further all women are bad drivers, the Irish are thick, Germans start wars and all English football supporters are thugs that should be banned from ever travelling. Grrrrrrrr......... You know if someone had dropped colour in there you'd have all been down on them like a ton of bricks, so why is this any different. Answer it's not.
If you want to lay the blame anywhere try either ski schools, poor awareness due to no signage on the pistes of rules, or people tackling slopes they aren't capable of.
National stereotyping is a terribly dangerous thing, and builds hideous prejudice.
Got that of my chest.
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You know it makes sense.
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Martin Nicholas,
But you're making exactly the same generalisations about nationalities that everyone else is!
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Hurtle, I thought I was extrapolating European road accident statistics into risk awareness on the piste, which in itself might be misguided but not xenophobic. It was more a point about individual perceptions of risk based on cultural norms, and then an educational approach to spreading the FIS 10 commandments.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatirishman, Yes, you're right, and I wish I'd never contributed to this thread, as I hate generalisations of any sort. I stand corrected, rebuked, humbled, shamed etc etc  However, all I said was a) that the behaviour of some Russians (well, quite a lot actually) in the Alps this year made me ashamed to be Russian, and I stand by that; and b) that Belgians used not to be able to drive very well, on account of not having a driving test. Xenophobic??? But, as it happens, I still wish I hadn't made any comment at all. Martin Nicholas, your reference to 'cultural norms' is still a generalisation. Over and out, I think, discretion being the better part of valour. (Valour??)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
Helen Beaumont,
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It was not a comment on the personality of the people involved, simply an observation of their on-piste behaviour
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Indeed. I think we are all - well mostly - commenting on observed behaviour, rather than national characteristics. (For a start, I like to think that I am not ill-behaved just because I am of Russian origin!) I remember, as a child, comments being made about the Belgians' inability to drive: fair enough, they didn't have a driving test in Belgium until the 1960s or so! So it was an entirely justified criticism of a whole nation's habits. There are all kinds of reasons, and indeed some justification, for the poor manners of some Russians today, but I haven't the time to go into them just now. |
Having recently been on the atuoroute in France with lots of Belgians driving like lunatics, I may agree with that one, but you can obviously tell the country that the car came from, unlike the people on the slope, unless they are talking in a language you understand. Often what is percieved by one nation to be bad manners would not be in their home country.
I don't think Dave Murdoch intended this to be xenophobic, I suspect it was said more 'tongue-in-cheek' .
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was coming down the Valentin (black run) in LDA (yes Easiski I know….never again!!), keeping myself to myself, being careful and there she came, totally out of control on blades, hit me full on from behind. The collision was that bad, she snapped the bottom of my new pole clean off and took me straight out. As they say the bigger you are, the harder you fall (6’ 3” & 16 stone!!). When I recovered from the shock, the verbal abuse (in italian) she gave me was unbelievable!! Then she just bladed off without an apology, even went over my skis!! I don't think it was that she was Italian, I just think she was terrified of the slope and she had a bit of a fright 
Some of the English are bad, I just keep my mouth shut in the lift queue, goggles and hat on…in disguise….no one can tell where I’m from, they just amaze me what they say….You should try it!! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Germans start wars
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Be fair, they do have previous convictions for that one.
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totally out of control on blades
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Have you ever seen anyone on blades who looked remotely in control?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Have you ever seen anyone on blades who looked remotely in control? |
Lizzard, yes: me. And my daughters.
However, it is well known that Nicaraguans cannot handle blades (except when placing steel blades between others' shoulder blades).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Yes, aren't they strange people! And they grow spaghetti on trees! |
I remember that particular news item
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Scarpa, you're not old enough Shirley? And wasn't it Panorama?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fatirishman, Oh come on. Have you ever driven around an Italian city? They're completely mental. Totally different attitude toward driving in general. I'd be surprised if it didn't translate just a tiny bit onto the piste. It certainly applies to their lift queue technique 
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uktrailmonster, yet I believe they have fewer deaths per motorist mile than the French. I like driving in Italy, but the French really scare me, espescially those with 75 plates (from Paris).
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FAQ
