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Flat light goggles

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I’ve Just got back from Tignes where I had my first real experience of flat light conditions (okay I’ve been very lucky up to now). Having heard of flat light goggles, I’m thinking of getting a pair, and just wondered how effective they can be, and if they are, what are the best makes to look out for. Any views welcome.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Phil Jordan, for me, Oakley lenses work best. Check out their Hi Intensity range - I think they come in blue or yellow (possibly other colours too)
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Phil Jordan, very interesting question and I daresay there's lots of science on this. I must admit that over the decades of skiing I've been more preoccupied with goggle ventilation and misting and haven't thought about lenses that might enhance snow features in flat light.

I wonder if any really objective testing has been published on this?
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Wear The Fox Hat, I detest flat light and would rather not ski in those conditions. What is the effect of these lenses - better definition perhaps? can you get them as shades - I don't wear goggles.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Phil Jordan, search around the forum, this has come up before - and there was even reference to some research (I think Oakley went into it a lot). My favourite pair of goggles is over 10 years old -Bolle with a pink lens. Great in flat light for me - and never mist up.
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holidayloverxx wrote:
Wear The Fox Hat, I detest flat light and would rather not ski in those conditions. ..........


You sometimes don't get the choice. Light can change fast on the slopes, and you need to get down safely. And I remember a week in Val D'Isere when it was flat light every day.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
holidayloverxx, as Bob Barnes says "It's what they're serving".
Not sure about getting them in shades - I'm a helmet wearer, so goggles only for me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
achilles, That's why I detest it. If I can't get definition I feel a bit sick. I end up getting down just a few metres at a time to be safe.
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achilles wrote:
You sometimes don't get the choice. Light can change fast on the slopes, and you need to get down safely.

Exactly. When we got on the lift things weren't too bad - when we got off it was a very different story Shocked
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holidayloverxx, just checked, and Oakley do the HI yellow on some of their glasses - didn't see which ones though. Try www.oakley.com
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holidayloverxx, that's very natural. Experience, and good instruction teaches you to relax and progress smoothly - though not as quickly as in good light. The right goggles lens can help pick up hints of what's going on, which can be remarkably helpful and reduce stress. You also learn tricks like skiing close to trees (if safe to do so) as they give a very good reference on the slope.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Wear The Fox Hat, Cheers

achilles, roll on EoSB and the recommencement of lessons. Foolishly I stopped takign them some years ago rolling eyes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Goldsmith wrote:
......I wonder if any really objective testing has been published on this?

The difference is blindingly obvious (pun intended) when you put on a pair of pucka low light goggles - it's like someone turned the light on.

Phil Jordan, Go for Oakley Hi Yellow. Superb but expensive so buy in the US if you can.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Thu 5-04-07 9:50; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
spyderjon, what's you definition of "pukka" low light goggles - I'm really interested in crackign this one.

you got your edit in while was posting. thanks
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
holidayloverxx, well, it's pot luck whether you'll get lessons in flat light. I've been lucky that instructors and guides have turned flat light situations into an opportunities to teach what to do. I imagine the easiski gang will do the same.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
holidayloverxx wrote:
spyderjon, what's you definition of "pukka" low light goggles - I'm really interested in crackign this one.

It's all about the level of light transmission. Here's the Oakley goggle light transmission spec from a couple of years ago so they might have changed a bit but you can see the relative differences:

High Intensity Blue (now called Hi Yellow) 83% S0 Flat to very low light.
Clear 82% S0 Neutral transmission. Very low light. Indoor use.
Persimmon 56% S1 Flat to very low light.
High Intensity Persimmon 52% S1 Flat to very low light.
VR50 44% S1 Flat to very low light.
Gold Iridium 28% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
VR28 25% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
G30 24% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Blue Iridium 24% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Black Iridium 16% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Fire Iridium 16% S3 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
spyderjon,

Thanks. what do you think the difference is between the High Intensity Blue (now called Hi Yellow) 83% S0 Flat to very low light and the High Intensity Persimmon 52% S1 Flat to very low light (as both are for flat to very low light) . I guess it's aroudn teh percentages - is that the amount of light they let in therefore the 83% lets in more light = better definition?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I can very much recommend the Carrera Kimerick goggles with the yellow polarised lenses, by far the best goggles i've had for flat light and zero fogging. I've had top of the range oakleys and bolle and these perform significantly better. Additionally with the polarised lenses they seem fine in the sun as well. Got them mail order from the USA https://www.artechski.com great customer service.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 5-04-07 10:22; edited 1 time in total
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as a sweaty so and so who suffers with all goggles misting up, I'm going to put a word in for Smith lenses. you can actually wipe them when they're misted up without ruining the anti-fog coating. unfortunately, this is not my experience with oakleys
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Beakyshark,

thanks - there's a superfluous comma at the end of the link - you'll need to edit.
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One problem I have had with goggles is using them in conjunction with my Scott helmet. Never thought to try a goggles/helmet combination in the shop. The rim of the helmet presses down even Scott goggles onto my cheeks and the bridge of my nose which is a bit distracting - so much so that I have stopped wearing my helmet (primary safety always beats secondary, where there is a conflict, IMV). So far, I have not found a narrow enough pair of goggles to overcome the problem. I have tried Scott, and Uvex -and, I think, Oakleys. My much loved Bolles are way too wide.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Arno, Got to agree there, got Smith Regulators with a couple of lens options, the ones that came with them and also the blue mirror (iridium type). Having said that, my North Face sunnies have cracking lenses for low light.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Holidayloverxx, if you don't use goggles,Serengeti sunglasses with the sedona lens are excellent and can be found on Ebay for about 65usd.
Here's the science bit. http://www.serengetieyewear.com/technology/lens_sedona.cfm
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jimmjimm, Cheers
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
spyderjon wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
spyderjon, what's you definition of "pukka" low light goggles - I'm really interested in crackign this one.

It's all about the level of light transmission. Here's the Oakley goggle light transmission spec from a couple of years ago so they might have changed a bit but you can see the relative differences:

High Intensity Blue (now called Hi Yellow) 83% S0 Flat to very low light.
Clear 82% S0 Neutral transmission. Very low light. Indoor use.
Persimmon 56% S1 Flat to very low light.
High Intensity Persimmon 52% S1 Flat to very low light.
VR50 44% S1 Flat to very low light.
Gold Iridium 28% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
VR28 25% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
G30 24% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Blue Iridium 24% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Black Iridium 16% S2 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.
Fire Iridium 16% S3 Neutral transmission. Medium to bright light.


Not sure it's entirely to do with overall light transmission, but more specifically colour transmission at particular points of the spectrum. Colour makes a big difference as does a reflective coating such as oakley iridium coating. I have had three pairs of flat light goggles with similar transmission (according to oakley) which all performed very differently in flat light. This seems to be a personal preference thing as what works for MrsH doesn't really work for me.
I now use HI yellow/blue for most occasions and HI per persimmon or Pink Iridium for brighter days. Unless spring skiing on a very sunny day on a glacier, I don't think I'd ever use a lens that oakley classify as a medium light lens.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 5-04-07 12:15; edited 1 time in total
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This year was my first wearing a helmet and therefore my first time wearing goggles in anything other than heavy snow. I got a pair of Adidas Yodai, and must say that they get a big thumbs-up - no misting up, even when the temps hit about 15C on the slopes in Chamonix! They do a range of interchangeable lenses, including a yellow and orange for flat light which are excellent.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Got a pair of the Oakley HI Yellows after my cheapo efforts were proved not upto the job in Saalbach in Jan. I aint used them yet, but lent to my brother who said they were fantastic when he had a week of flat light in Zermatt at the beginning of March. Taking them to Eosb, but hoping I won't need them Wink
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Just had a great time checkign teh Oakley lens simulation http://oakley.com/innovation/optical_superiority/lens_tints/

I'm going to try Persimmon for flat light and warm grey for sunlight - interchangeable on half jacket shades. Hi Yellow doesn't do it for me on this, but cheap enough to try different ones.

v happy with this thread. thanks for all the advice.

Phil Jordan, sorry to hijack your thread, hopefully you got soem good info to.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Persimmon works for me all round. I used to use a darker pair for sun but now I don't bother.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I'd second the Adidas Yodai for good goggles - this link gives info on the different types of lenses http://www.vision3k.com/adidas-ski-goggles.asp

I have the orange which are great in flat light - when its really sunny I should really swap lenses (they are changeable) but I can never be bothered.....
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Spy Soldier googles here. Simple classic design, no fogging, high quality lenses. Grey mirrored lens for brighter weather (gives natural true colours) and rose or persimmon tint for flat light.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I found a big difference in visibility between the persimmon and the HI Yellow (was HI Blue) lens.
The HI Yellow is streets ahead for definition.
If you are buying a lens purely for low/flat light I would deffo buy the HI Yellow.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
An alternative approach. I too suffer with excessive sweating and thus far i have not found a goggle that want fog up and in the past the sweat on the inside lens has frozen rendering my goggles useless. I now ski with 2 pairs of goggles (Persimmon lens on a cheap pair of bolle's and even cheaper pair of carreras) so when one becomes saturated with moisture or freezes i simply use the spare pair. After years of forking out for expensive models i found el cheapo's the best. Together they cost less then oakleys Hi yellow/blue that i iborrowed a few seasons ago.They looked fantastic and were great to look through but i didnt think made much diff to my skiing.
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stephen bleakley, now you are making me wonder....maybe i'll get Hi Yellow lens as well
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
spent some time in big white where you get plenty of flat light & low cloud. I bought a pair of carrera kimerick with the pol. yellow lens & found them the best i've used in those conditions, better than the bolle with pink lens i had there last year..
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I use Persimmon for everything. Even in bright sunlight they are not too bad, and with the full UV protection it is only a little squinting when looking uphill that I have to put up with. Great all round lens.
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